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Dahntay#1 said:
Not trying to hijack the convo you guys are having but I do have questions. Do you trust the media? Do you think they don’t purposely lie to the public to fit their narratives? Do you think the media and journalism work the same way they did 30 or 40 years ago?

The answer to all of those seem pretty obvious to me. But if I’m following what your saying you may see it completely different and actually trust what the media tells you. Do I have the right?
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I think the media is definitely compromised, but more from who owns them or supports them with ads than from partisan politics on the part of individual journalists. I don't expect them to be completely without bias because that's pretty much impossible. And there are lots of journalists and media outfits out there who maintain high levels of integrity despite bias.

I wouldn't say I trust them, but I also don't believe most of them purposely lie very often to fit a predetermined narrative. I don't take much at face value anymore. I vet and cross-reference pretty much everything I read.
 
The biggest problem with the media is that journalists more resemble activists and the majority of viewers on the left and right put more value in prime time opinion-based figureheads that confirm their views for them. Sean Hannity is obnoxious and kisses the ass of the republican party. Probably can't get the taste of Trump's ass out of his mouth. But man, look at how many lefty loonies their are on other networks. They outnumber the looney righties 6 to 1. And they definitely purposely lie. A lot.
 
Mac9192 said:
Another one of your of "out of touch with reality" posts. You have been indoctrinated by the Educational System. It's great that you're educated. The problem is you're just not very intelligent. Every now and then, you'll show glimpses of a little intelligence, but not very often. Who you hang out with on a daily basis most likely doesn't help. Too many in education have no real world experience. This also makes you not willing to, or unable to, think for yourself.

Your last several posts prove it.
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Part of what you call "indoctrination by the Educational System" is "learning sound strategies and processes." Education has "indoctrinated" me to believe I should vet sources, apply critical thinking and textual analysis to what I read, view, and hear. If learning how to think for myself means, somehow, that I'm indoctrinated and don't think for myself... uh... yeah... you might want to workshop that criticism a bit more.

I'm the first to acknowledge the limits of my knowledge. I have worked in public education full-time since I got out of undergrad 29+ years ago. My part-time private sector work experience as an adult has all been education-related, too. And my wife is in ag, so I know a good bit about that, too. You'll notice I have little to say about economics beyond the philosophical. (Well, you would notice, if you actually paid attention to who I am instead of inventing a caricature of me that's not as intimidating.)

You talk in absolutes constantly, mac. You don't understand nuances. You never pause to consider whether new information might be valid; you instead rush to judgment and dismissal if it challenges what you wish was true, and trumpet it when it confirms your existing views. You are fond of calling me a sheep, but never vet your media sources or demonstrate any kind of critical thinking skills to back up what you think. You think complexity is suspicious, like everything is simple to understand and everyone understands everything the exact same way unless they are evil, dishonest, stupid, and other absolute judgments. You constantly tell me what I know to be true as if you can read my heart and mind... but I'm the arrogant one. You demonstrate no critical thinking skills... but I'm not very intelligent. I'm the only regular leftist here and apply valid, crucial academic skills at every turn... but I'm the one who can't think for myself.

Of the regulars here, it's a toss-up between you and kdstone for who I think is the dumbest. Maybe I'm forgetting someone... For you to claim I'm not very intelligent just confirms for me that I'm doing something right.
 
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GhostOf301 said:
The biggest problem with the media is that journalists more resemble activists and the majority of viewers on the left and right put more value in prime time opinion-based figureheads that confirm their views for them. Sean Hannity is obnoxious and kisses the ass of the republican party. Probably can't get the taste of Trump's ass out of his mouth. But man, look at how many lefty loonies their are on other networks. They outnumber the looney righties 6 to 1. And they definitely purposely lie. A lot.
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Uhhhh... and yet FoxNews reaches way, way, way more viewers. Conservatives are very proud of that when it suits their purpose, so your made-up 6 to 1 ratio doesn't really matter. There are more mentally ill unhoused persons ranting on street corners in America's Democrat-run cities than there are Sean Hannitys on FoxNews, but so what?
 
I agree about Hannity. I agree with a lot of what he says, but think he's not tough enough on Republicans. Bill O'Reilly is very good, but he doesn't believe it's true until he announces it. Joe Rogan has surprisingly made himself into someone worth listening to.

The best line though has come from Steven A Smith. Not long ago he said he was tired of listening to Hannity, Megyn Kelly, and Officer Tatum say stuff, and be proven correct.
 
I think the majority of networks lie, either by omission or by grossly exaggerating events to form public opinions. You don’t realize how much they lie until you actually take the time to properly research their claims.

Most of the media is one sided. They are given their marching orders from the top. I saw a video one time where at least 50 different news channels were literally repeating the same exact lines. Not same topics, but same lines verbatim. So if you cross reference something said in the media, and all sources used for referencing have the same ideology, you’re wasting your time.
 
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Dattier said:
Uhhhh... and yet FoxNews reaches way, way, way more viewers. Conservatives are very proud of that when it suits their purpose, so your made-up 6 to 1 ratio doesn't really matter. There are more mentally ill unhoused persons ranting on street corners in America's Democrat-run cities than there are Sean Hannitys on FoxNews, but so what?
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Well, that fact would support my claim that the loons on the leftists propaganda networks outnumber the loons on fox. You're team is losing fans because of how looney they have become. It's only the hardcore jersey wearers like you that still think they have an ounce of dignity left.
 
dukesince91 said:
I taught for 29 years and believe me, I saw a lot of fruit cakes in the teaching profession.
I never claimed to be intelligent, but I always thought I had a little bit of common sense. Many teachers were jealous of me teaching P.E. They would make comments about how I had it made. How you’re lucky you can wear shorts and sweats to work. I just would tell them that they just got in the wrong line and could have made the same choice I made. A lot of teachers would complain about the pay , but weren’t willing to work an extra job to help make ends meet. They enjoyed all the holidays and summers off, but bitched about the pay.
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We've talked about this some before... Were you in NC? Were you an NEA member?
I'm very involved in union work. I like how common sense is defined within the union: it's what the majority of people accept as true. It's neither an endorsement nor an indictment of whether it is true or not, which is different from the more common idea that it means what is logical. In union terms, if the common sense is inaccurate or harmful, the goal is to shift it, creating a new "the common sense."

The idea that teachers should have to work second jobs is toxic. We are terribly underpaid. There is no other profession requiring the same level of education, certification, and recertification, with as much responsibility, that is paid anywhere near as badly. Yay for summer vacay, but that doesn't change that we are very underpaid, and NC is among the worst. We can love our jobs and do our jobs and still want working conditions to improve.

I think jealousy of PE teachers is insulting to PE teachers. It's based on really trivial things like sweatpants and the perception that it's "easy." Considering the physical health crisis going on now and our understanding of how physical health affects mental health, PE/Health is arguably the most important content for students to learn today.
 
GhostOf301 said:
Well, that fact would support my claim that the loons on the leftists propaganda networks outnumber the loons on fox. You're team is losing fans because of how looney they have become. It's only the hardcore jersey wearers like you that still think they have an ounce of dignity left.
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When did they last pull more viewers than FoxNews?
When have I ever gone in hardcore for msm?
 
Dattier said:
Part of what you call "indoctrination by the Educational System" is "learning sound strategies and processes." Education has "indoctrinated" me to believe I should vet sources, apply critical thinking and textual analysis to what I read, view, and hear. If learning how to think for myself means, somehow, that I'm indoctrinated and don't think for myself... uh... yeah... you might want to workshop that criticism a bit more.

I'm the first to acknowledge the limits of my knowledge. I have worked in public education full-time since I got out of undergrad 29+ years ago. My part-time private sector work experience as an adult has all been education-related, too. And my wife is in ag, so I know a good bit about that, too. You'll notice I have little to say about economics beyond the philosophical. (Well, you would notice, if you actually paid attention to who I am instead of inventing a caricature of me that's not as intimidating.)

You talk in absolutes constantly, mac. You don't understand nuances. You never pause to consider whether new information might be valid; you instead rush to judgment and dismissal if it challenges what you wish was true, and trumpet it when it confirms your existing views. You are fond of calling me a sheep, but never vet your media sources or demonstrate any kind of critical thinking skills to back up what you think. You think complexity is suspicious, like everything is simple to understand and everyone understands everything the exact same way unless they are evil, dishonest, stupid, and other absolute judgments. You constantly tell me what I know to be true as if you can read my heart and mind... but I'm the arrogant one. You demonstrate no critical thinking skills... but I'm not very intelligent. I'm the only regular leftist here and apply valid, crucial academic skills at every turn... but I'm the one who can't think for myself.

Of the regulars here, it's a toss-up between you and kdstone for who I think is the dumbest. Maybe I'm forgetting someone... For you to claim I'm not very intelligent just confirms for me that I'm doing something right.
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The only credit I'm willing to give you is that you're not a bad basketball poster, but when the subject is politics/social issues, you're extremely dense. It's nothing short of a lie when you say you know you have limits on your knowledge. Because if that were true, you would do what sdevada did, and hide out like she has done, or you would simply quit talking politics and social issues.

A lot of what I do post IS in absolutes. Biden was absolutely mentally unfit to be President. We all saw what he was doing, and heard the gibber coming out of his mouth. For years. Sure, if you watched news on tv NOT named Fox, Newsmax, or OAN, you didn't see any of this. Corporate media hid it all. This is absolutely the truth.

I'll say it again, the night of the debate absolutely exposed Biden AND a lot of the media. No amount of evidence will ever be enough to convince you though. Your pride handcuffs you.

How's that for absolutes?
 
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Mac9192 said:
The only credit I'm willing to give you is that you're not a bad basketball poster, but when the subject is politics/social issues, you're extremely dense. It's nothing short of a lie when you say you know you have limits on your knowledge. Because if that were true, you would do what sdevada did, and hide out like she has done, or you would simply quit talking politics and social issues.

A lot of what I do post IS in absolutes. Biden was absolutely mentally unfit to be President. We all saw what he was doing, and heard the gibber coming out of his mouth. For years. Sure, if you watched news on tv NOT named Fox, Newsmax, or OAN, you didn't see any of this. Corporate media hid it all. This is absolutely the truth.

I'll say it again, the night of the debate absolutely exposed Biden AND a lot of the media. No amount of evidence will ever be enough to convince you though. Your pride handcuffs you.

How's that for absolutes?
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It just came to me that you may not actually be arguing in bad faith about Biden. It seems you actually didn’t see what others saw until debate night. You only watch left leaning media and they were purposely hiding that from you.

So that begs the question: If they hid from you the fact that the President of the United States was mentally incapacitated, wouldn’t it probably mean they are hiding other things from you as well?
 
Dahntay#1 said:
It just came to me that you may not actually be arguing in bad faith about Biden. It seems you actually didn’t see what others saw until debate night. You only watch left leaning media and they were purposely hiding that from you.

So that begs the question: If they hid from you the fact that the President of the United States was mentally incapacitated, wouldn’t it probably mean they are hiding other things from you as well?
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Help me out here. I'm not following you, or did you mean to quote @Dattier?
 
Dattier said:
We've talked about this some before... Were you in NC? Were you an NEA member?
I'm very involved in union work. I like how common sense is defined within the union: it's what the majority of people accept as true. It's neither an endorsement nor an indictment of whether it is true or not, which is different from the more common idea that it means what is logical. In union terms, if the common sense is inaccurate or harmful, the goal is to shift it, creating a new "the common sense."

The idea that teachers should have to work second jobs is toxic. We are terribly underpaid. There is no other profession requiring the same level of education, certification, and recertification, with as much responsibility, that is paid anywhere near as badly. Yay for summer vacay, but that doesn't change that we are very underpaid, and NC is among the worst. We can love our jobs and do our jobs and still want working conditions to improve.

I think jealousy of PE teachers is insulting to PE teachers. It's based on really trivial things like sweatpants and the perception that it's "easy." Considering the physical health crisis going on now and our understanding of how physical health affects mental health, PE/Health is arguably the most important content for students to learn today.
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I taught 29 years in NC. I was a member of NEA for about my first 10 years of teaching and heard some bad stories about them not helping out a few teachers in need. I started feeling like I was throwing money away. I went into teaching at a good time (1988) and knew I wasn’t going to get rich. There’s no way I would go into teaching now, especially since you lose your health insurance upon retirement.

I agree with your last paragraph about physical education being important. It’s sad how overweight and lethargic our young people have become. The system has lowered expectations across the board and I was ready to get out asap. When my district said a student couldn’t receive a grade below a 50 their first semester, I just shook my head and laughed at our administration. Public education has fallen off and something needs to be done. It’s time to get back to the basis and get rid of all the fluff in today’s curriculum.
 
Mac9192 said:
The only credit I'm willing to give you is that you're not a bad basketball poster, but when the subject is politics/social issues, you're extremely dense. It's nothing short of a lie when you say you know you have limits on your knowledge. Because if that were true, you would do what sdevada did, and hide out like she has done, or you would simply quit talking politics and social issues.

A lot of what I do post IS in absolutes. Biden was absolutely mentally unfit to be President. We all saw what he was doing, and heard the gibber coming out of his mouth. For years. Sure, if you watched news on tv NOT named Fox, Newsmax, or OAN, you didn't see any of this. Corporate media hid it all. This is absolutely the truth.

I'll say it again, the night of the debate absolutely exposed Biden AND a lot of the media. No amount of evidence will ever be enough to convince you though. Your pride handcuffs you.

How's that for absolutes?
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And if we didn’t pull for the same team, I could post just as knowledgeably about basketball and you would call me a complete idiot. That’s because you see no value in, or have respect for anything you don’t agree with completely.

FoxNews is also “corporate media.” OAN and Newsmax are not remotely credible. They are more extreme than FoxNews in their bias, and they deal in conspiracy and propaganda. FoxNews has far higher credibility than either of them. You’ve rejected msm annd replaced it with absolute crap that you like the taste of. I’ve rejected msm to a lesser extent and replaced it with constant vigilance vetting media according to academically and logically sound processes. I’ve ripped so many crap articles you’ve posted to shreds using clear facts and logic, and all you come back with is denials, hyperbole, and whining about how I missed some point you couldn’t articulate or substantiate.

The night of the Biden-Trump 2024 debate? Who is denying that President Biden was exposed? Or that msm had egg on their face afterward?
 
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Dahntay#1 said:
It just came to me that you may not actually be arguing in bad faith about Biden. It seems you actually didn’t see what others saw until debate night. You only watch left leaning media and they were purposely hiding that from you.

So that begs the question: If they hid from you the fact that the President of the United States was mentally incapacitated, wouldn’t it probably mean they are hiding other things from you as well?
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I don’t know how you got that from anything I wrote. I do not watch only left-leaning media, and as I’ve said several times today and regularly for years, I cross-reference and vet sources. I look at source material. I know how to evaluate word choice and tone for bias.

I would have voted for Biden a second time if the alternate was Trump. I’d have voted for a paper bag over Trump. That Biden was practically indistinguishable from a paper bag some days is not lost on me. He also had moments of lucidity til the very end.
 
Dattier said:
And if we didn’t pull for the same team, I could post just as knowledgeably about basketball and you would call me a complete idiot. That’s because you see no value in, ir respect for anything you don’t agree with completely.

FoxNews is also “corporate media.” OAN and Newsmax are not remotely credible. They are more extreme than FoxNews in their bias, and they deal in conspiracy and propaganda. FoxNews has far higher credibility than either of them. You’ve rejected msm annd replaced it with absolute crap that you like the taste of. I’ve rejected msm to a lesser extent and replaced it with constant vigilance vetting media according to academically and logically sound processes. I’ve ripped so many crap articles you’ve posted to shreds using clear facts and logic, and all you come back with is denials, hyperbole, and whining about how I missed some point you couldn’t articulate or substantiate.

The night of the Biden-Trump 2024 debate? Who is denying that President Biden was exposed? Or that msm had egg on their face afterward?
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Once again, you’ve swing and missed. I gave you a little compliment. It has nothing to do with you pulling for the same team as I do. You’re an idiot because of your takes politically.

So if you can at least admit that the media was exposed the night of the debate, then isn’t it quite possible they covered for him for years? You just refuse to see what is obvious. This is where you’re getting exposed for being the moron we all know you to be.

I’m not a lover of Fox News. But they’re much closer to the truth than the other outlets. You then continue to outdo yourself by saying you reject msm to a lesser extent, and have replaced it with vetting according to academically and logically sound processes. What an awful take. You couldn’t have typed that with a straight face.
 
Dattier said:
I don’t know how you got that from anything I wrote. I do not watch only left-leaning media, and as I’ve said several times today and regularly for years, I cross-reference and vet sources. I look at source material. I know how to evaluate word choice and tone for bias.

I would have voted for Biden a second time if the alternate was Trump. I’d have voted for a paper bag over Trump. That Biden was practically indistinguishable from a paper bag some days is not lost on me. He also had moments of lucidity til the very end.
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I think that you think for a news source to be left-leaning, it’s going to always be an overt bias. That’s not how it works. Some networks make it obvious like CNN and MSNBC. Others portray a neutral stance but they aren’t at all. If you don’t understand what’s happening, you’ll completely miss it. The overwhelming majority of the msm is left-leaning.

The reason I say you only watch left-leaning media is not because of anything you said. It’s because you supposedly had no idea that Biden’s brain was fried until the 2024 debate. I knew his brain was fried in 2020. Countless people on the right knew it as well. So if numerous people knew this from the media they were watching, but you didn’t, I can only conclude that you were only watching left-leaning media. They were purposely not showing you those moments to protect Biden. There were videos almost weekly of Biden’s gaffes. I do mean that literally.

So my main question here is if countless other people saw Biden’s gaffes in the media we were watching, why do you think you missed it?
 
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dukesince91 said:
I taught 29 years in NC. I was a member of NEA for about my first 10 years of teaching and heard some bad stories about them not helping out a few teachers in need. I started feeling like I was throwing money away. I went into teaching at a good time (1988) and knew I wasn’t going to get rich. There’s no way I would go into teaching now, especially since you lose your health insurance upon retirement.

I agree with your last paragraph about physical education being important. It’s sad how overweight and lethargic our young people have become. The system has lowered expectations across the board and I was ready to get out asap. When my district said a student couldn’t receive a grade below a 50 their first semester, I just shook my head and laughed at our administration. Public education has fallen off and something needs to be done. It’s time to get back to the basis and get rid of all the fluff in today’s curriculum.
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20 years or more you get zero cost insurance
 
Mac9192 said:
Once again, you’ve swing and missed. I gave you a little compliment. It has nothing to do with you pulling for the same team as I do. You’re an idiot because of your takes politically.

So if you can at least admit that the media was exposed the night of the debate, then isn’t it quite possible they covered for him for years? You just refuse to see what is obvious. This is where you’re getting exposed for being the moron we all know you to be.

I’m not a lover of Fox News. But they’re much closer to the truth than the other outlets. You then continue to outdo yourself by saying you reject msm to a lesser extent, and have replaced it with vetting according to academically and logically sound processes. What an awful take. You couldn’t have typed that with a straight face.
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You can say it's a "swing and a miss"; you can say I'm an idiot; you can say it's an awful take... what you are incapable of doing is supporting any of those things substantively. Or is supporting what you say some dumb thing that only dumb academics think matters?

You gave me a little compliment and think I ought to be grateful for it. I exposed you for who you are and what you do. You don't accept or respect anything that doesn't gibe with your fixed, narrow worldview. Basketball, politics, wouldn't matter.

FoxNews is the most biased and compromised of all msm with the possible exception of MSNBC, if they even qualify as msm. ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, AP, PBS, NPR -- every single one of them exists separate of bias. Every single one of them started "clean," so to speak. If, if, if every single one of them is now left-leaning, it has been a gradual process over the course of many years, like tires getting out of alignment. FoxNews' very existence was because Rupert Murdoch believed all those outfits were biased to the left and he then created FoxNews with the very intention of countering them, being biased to the right by design from its very beginning. There has never been a moment in its history where FoxNews has operated in good faith. It's just like people asking why there isn't a White History Month or saying All Lives Matter or talking about men's rights: None of them exists purely as a result of a need; they all exist in response to something, as an anti-something. I'm not arguing the legitimacy of those 3 anti-somethings here and now, but their very existence is inherently rooted in bad faith. Same with FoxNews. Yet that's the most legitimate, credible news source you ever use.

And in between those logs of predictable, epitomizing crap, you try to wheedle me into conceding something. GMLY. You will stop short of nothing but my 100% agreement that msm is 100% full of crap. When that's you're real goal, I'm not conceding an inch.

Tell me, who is this "we all" who know me to be a moron? All the conservatives here? All of your hand-picked friends from your tiny bubble? @GhostOf301 ? @KDSTONE ? @smashmouth5 ? @dukesince91 ? @denverexpat ? @pisgah101 ? the newly reemerged @Dahntay#1 ? Who am I missing? You're speaking for all of them? I take on all of you together all by my lonesome any day of the week.

I propose a bet: Get every single one of them to agree with you without qualification or condition (iow, no asterisks) that I am a moron for my political takes and I'll take a 3 MONTH break from this thread. If a single one of them dissents, you take a 3 DAY break from this thread. Hurry up and take it or not, for the record, before others chime in.
 
I wouldn’t say Dattier is a Moron. He’s definitely not a dumb guy. I’d use the word indoctrinated instead. Many times the more formally educated one is, the easier they are to be duped. And this is not across the board. However, I think he is an extreme case. They are indirectly taught to only trust “experts”. Why? Because they are paying a lot of money to become a said “expert” in something. So they unintentionally default to believing experts over using their own critical thinking.

For example, say I give an opinion on something and Dattier disagrees with it. More than likely, his default will be to Google said topic and find a couple of articles with a couple of “experts” to prove my point wrong. Once you’ve been indoctrinated out of your critical thinking skills, you will see nothing wrong with this method.

So again, he’s not a dumb by any means. I think he’s probably very “book smart”, meaning he has memorized a lot of “facts”. However, I think vetting of the “facts” and critically thinking about them are minimal.
 
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Dahntay#1 said:
I wouldn’t say Dattier is a Moron. He’s definitely not a dumb guy. I’d use the word indoctrinated instead. Many times the more formally educated one is, the easier they are to be duped. And this is not across the board. However, I think he is an extreme case. They are indirectly taught to only trust “experts”. Why? Because they are paying a lot of money to become a said “expert” in something. So they unintentionally default to believing experts over using their own critical thinking.

For example, say I give an opinion on something and Dattier disagrees with it. More than likely, his default will be to Google said topic and find a couple of articles with a couple of “experts” to prove my point wrong. Once you’ve been indoctrinated out of your critical thinking skills, you will see nothing wrong with this method.

So again, he’s not a dumb by any means. I think he’s probably very “book smart”, meaning he has memorized a lot of “facts”. However, I think vetting of the “facts” and critically thinking about them are minimal.
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I'll count this toward mac's total anyway, if he chooses to take the bet.

Fair point about trusting experts, though it comes from a context where expertise is not earned, but rather bestowed. There is no question that expertise is one measure of validity. As an expert on a handful of things myself, I have enough respect for those things that I would not knowingly compromise their integrity or mine, and I extend this benefit of the doubt to most other experts. An obvious exception would be if there are huge red flags, like climate scientists denying climate change whose research was funded by big oil. I have no doubt those experts are far more knowledgable than I am, but I would not trust them due to perceived motives.

Between accepting a claim ("opinion," you called it) at face value and googling the topic, the latter is going to have a higher rate of critical thinking, on average. I have been guilty of what you describe there, though, and acknowledge that would constitute a blind spot when it comes to critical thinking. If that has been communicated to me previously, I didn't get it, so thank you for pointing it out.

That isn't what I typically do, though. I usually look at things like original source material, whether it has been peer-reviewed, language choice. I'm not -- and none of us is -- going to become an expert in every possible field and do all the research myself, so at some point, our only choice is to trust someone. I'll accept the average person on the street as far as their personal experience is, but I'm not going to extrapolate that into proof of anything without a significant sample size. (A blind spot everyone potentially has, including me, is to shortcut critical thinking because a piece of evidence fits with what seems logical or "makes sense" to us.)

I could (continue to) nitpick, but what you've said here is respectful and respectable and I accept it in good faith. It's food for thought for me, and I thank you for it.
 
I think you (as in anyone) can be an idiot or be a moron on particular subjects and not necessarily be an idiot or a moron generally speaking. It's a strange bet that I don't think I will help with.
 
Obviously I upset @Dattier, calling him an idiot, and a moron. Ok, he's not a moron, or an idiot, but most definitely is indoctrinated. He says he thinks for himself, and that he vets information. How, by reading or watching something HE prefers, then going to sources HE trusts? How is that vetting? I mean we are all probably guilty of that though. If he truly has been vetting his sources, he would honestly have come up with a finding that we were lied to about so many things the last 8-10 years.

This part is the kick in the nuts: It took a LIVE TV performance in front of the nation before many saw that Biden wasn't fit mentally to continue. We've been saying that since 2020, but were brow beaten by the hard leftists, and also many in the media for daring to speak negatively about our President. I may not like Biden, but that was nothing short of criminal (evil) to parade him as our President. I would never do that to someone I care about. NEVER.

We also knew we were lied to about Covid and the vaccine, but again, were verbally beaten down by the more "educated and sophisticated" people on the left. How could we expect to get fair coverage by the media when the pharmaceutical companies are big time donors to them?? I also feel there's a good chance more truths about the 2020 election will be one day revealed. If I'm wrong then then I will have been right 2 out of the last 3. That's better than our media. Too many people, not just our media, are severely compromised. That is a fact.

Given all this, @Dattier can still argue that we are wrong and he is right???
 
Mac9192 said:
Obviously I upset @Dattier, calling him an idiot, and a moron. Ok, he's not a moron, or an idiot, but most definitely is indoctrinated. He says he thinks for himself, and that he vets information. How, by reading or watching something HE prefers, then going to sources HE trusts? How is that vetting? I mean we are all probably guilty of that though. If he truly has been vetting his sources, he would honestly have come up with a finding that we were lied to about so many things the last 8-10 years.

This part is the kick in the nuts: It took a LIVE TV performance in front of the nation before many saw that Biden wasn't fit mentally to continue. We've been saying that since 2020, but were brow beaten by the hard leftists, and also many in the media for daring to speak negatively about our President. I may not like Biden, but that was nothing short of criminal (evil) to parade him as our President. I would never do that to someone I care about. NEVER.

We also knew we were lied to about Covid and the vaccine, but again, were verbally beaten down by the more "educated and sophisticated" people on the left. How could we expect to get fair coverage by the media when the pharmaceutical companies are big time donors to them?? I also feel there's a good chance more truths about the 2020 election will be one day revealed. If I'm wrong then then I will have been right 2 out of the last 3. That's better than our media. Too many people, not just our media, are severely compromised. That is a fact.

Given all this, @Dattier can still argue that we are wrong and he is right???
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Not gonna take the bet? I'll concede @GhostOf301 's vote to you, too...

Take your win on President Biden's mental decline. Remember how I told you you would be miserable throughout President Trump's second term? It's because nothing short of complete capitulation is acceptable to you. You can't handle the fact that a single person could competently believe something different from you. I think diversity of thought terrifies you.

If you were so-called "lied to" about COVID and the vaccine, you got 60-70% accurate info and you've discarded all of it. Agreed that big pharma should be viewed with suspicion. When it comes to being accountable to America and the world, all that deep state nonsense you love dies. Nobody is going to step to the mic and risk their entire reputation because of a campaign donation when lives are on the line in that moment. And you're completely wrong about 2020. I've previously shared the Heritage Foundation's stats on election fraud from 2020 to the present nationwide. It's from THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION, the creators of Project 2025. There have been a grand total of 246 convictions in the entire country from 2020 to the present. Even if all 246 were from the Presidential election of 2020 (they're not) in the same place (they're not), it would hardly affect any US House race, let alone a single electoral vote. That's the best THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION could do.

You can't upset me over names you call me. I know who I am and what I'm capable of. I told you a couple days ago insults from you are a sign I'm doing things right. The bet you're chickening out on here is being honorable enough to stand by your words. You love absolutes and extreme language; stand by what you said, coward.
 
Dattier said:
Not gonna take the bet? I'll concede @GhostOf301 's vote to you, too...

Take your win on President Biden's mental decline. Remember how I told you you would be miserable throughout President Trump's second term? It's because nothing short of complete capitulation is acceptable to you. You can't handle the fact that a single person could competently believe something different from you. I think diversity of thought terrifies you.

If you were so-called "lied to" about COVID and the vaccine, you got 60-70% accurate info and you've discarded all of it. Agreed that big pharma should be viewed with suspicion. When it comes to being accountable to America and the world, all that deep state nonsense you love dies. Nobody is going to step to the mic and risk their entire reputation because of a campaign donation when lives are on the line in that moment. And you're completely wrong about 2020. I've previously shared the Heritage Foundation's stats on election fraud from 2020 to the present nationwide. It's from THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION, the creators of Project 2025. There have been a grand total of 246 convictions in the entire country from 2020 to the present. Even if all 246 were from the Presidential election of 2020 (they're not) in the same place (they're not), it would hardly affect any US House race, let alone a single electoral vote. That's the best THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION could do.

You can't upset me over names you call me. I know who I am and what I'm capable of. I told you a couple days ago insults from you are a sign I'm doing things right. The bet you're chickening out on here is being honorable enough to stand by your words. You love absolutes and extreme language; stand by what you said, coward.
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You're one twisted nut, that's hung up on a silly bet that you concocted. You're now willing to concede Biden. I would say that is huge, but you were given no other choice. No one could hide it from you. If it makes you feel better, just know I gave you a golf clap.

Here you go making fun of the "deep state" theory. News flash, it's true. Who were the people that fooled many Americans since 2019, and almost all of his term by severely limiting his public exposure, dictating what was said, up until the debate??? They basically HID Biden for the better part of 3 and a half years. No President in the modern era has ever been hidden like he was. If that's not a good description of the "Deep State," then I don't know what is.

They did the same with Covid. But, but, but, you haven't been told by "your side" that many lies were told during that, so it must not be true.
 
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@Dattier out of curiosity, do you hold any beliefs that differ from the mainstream narrative? Or have you ever found any “conspiracies” to actually be true? There are probably a couple dozen “facts” that are generally accepted as true that I’ve researched and feel very strongly are lies. I’m trying to figure out if you have ever experienced this before. More specifically, researched a “conspiracy” and found you were in fact wrong about your original belief and the mainstream narrative.

Once you’ve experienced that once, let alone a dozen times, you realize how easily the media can get away with lying to the masses.
 
Dahntay#1 said:
@Dattier out of curiosity, do you hold any beliefs that differ from the mainstream narrative? Or have you ever found any “conspiracies” to actually be true? There are probably a couple dozen “facts” that are generally accepted as true that I’ve researched and feel very strongly are lies. I’m trying to figure out if you have ever experienced this before. More specifically, researched a “conspiracy” and found you were in fact wrong about your original belief and the mainstream narrative.

Once you’ve experienced that once, let alone a dozen times, you realize how easily the media can get away with lying to the masses.
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When I first got involved in this thread, I tried to speak like this. I've failed, getting frustrated over time with him, and in doing so, losing any point I tried to make by hurling insults. If you can keep posting like this, there's not much of a comeback he will have.

Very well said. Stay strong, he will try to drag you into the mud.
 
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Dahntay#1 said:
@Dattier out of curiosity, do you hold any beliefs that differ from the mainstream narrative? Or have you ever found any “conspiracies” to actually be true? There are probably a couple dozen “facts” that are generally accepted as true that I’ve researched and feel very strongly are lies. I’m trying to figure out if you have ever experienced this before. More specifically, researched a “conspiracy” and found you were in fact wrong about your original belief and the mainstream narrative.

Once you’ve experienced that once, let alone a dozen times, you realize how easily the media can get away with lying to the masses.
Click to expand...
I don't really know what you claim as mainstream narrative. Examples?
 
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