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Yeah, yeah, thousands of examples. I was being hyperbolic for the sake of expedience. There's very little chance for little fish to rise much. Most of us who rise do so just enough to move into a better adjacent school district. It's not nothing, but it's not much. Since the Boomers, every subsequent generation is doing worse.

The alternative to relying on govt sprinkles is relying on corporate/wealthy sprinkles. You oversimplified and so did I. Again, it's for the sake of expedience.

It's the billionaires who are taking from us. Nobody works 10,000 times harder than anyone else. Nobody actually earns a billion dollars. When you're that rich, your money works for you. You're making passive income without doing a thing. And when it comes to resources and money, the total amount is finite, so one person having that much is absolutely taking it from someone else.

Currently, billionaires get to turn around and buy the govt, then further rig it to benefit themselves at our expense. They should owe a far greater debt than they are currently paying to a system that protects their right to earn so much more. They owe it to the system to make the same opportunities available to others, but instead the income gap continues to grow.

So it seems we agree on a lot of the problems. We also seem to agree that the link between politicians and big money harms all the little fish. I tend to think we have a better chance at voting out politicians who aren't serving our interests than we do letting the free market decide. I trust the democratic process more than I trust capitalism.
So forgive me if I am wrong. But you seem to be basing your logic on little fish becoming billionaires. Let me start over by explaining that I believe capitalism gives people the opportunity to live comfortably and be able to save for retirement. I am not pretending that everyone can become millionaires or billionaires just by working hard. We shouldn't expect the same outcome as everyone else. The only thing we should expect is to be rewarded for our efforts and to be able to live modestly and healthy. Socialism has proven to fail everywhere it has been tried. It may be more of a balanced economic class, but it is a lower class.

As far as voting politicians out. That will never happen unless there is a ban on special interests and lobbyists in Congress. That was one of the biggest disappointments from Trump's first term for me. He said he would do it and never even brought it up. Look at Mitch McConnell for shit's sake. That crook would have been primaried a decade ago if it weren't for him being bought. I can go down the list of pieces of shits that need to be primaried in the GOP. But never will be. I am not just talking about the never Trumpers either. Of course my list of dems is a lot longer. Lol
 
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So forgive me if I am wrong. But you seem to be basing your logic on little fish becoming billionaires. Let me start over by explaining that I believe capitalism gives people the opportunity to live comfortably and be able to save for retirement. I am not pretending that everyone can become millionaires or billionaires just by working hard. We shouldn't expect the same outcome as everyone else. The only thing we should expect is to be rewarded for our efforts and to be able to live modestly and healthy. Socialism has proven to fail everywhere it has been tried. It may be more of a balanced economic class, but it is a lower class.

As far as voting politicians out. That will never happen unless there is a ban on special interests and lobbyists in Congress. That was one of the biggest disappointments from Trump's first term for me. He said he would do it and never even brought it up. Look at Mitch McConnell for shit's sake. That crook would have been primaried a decade ago if it weren't for him being bought. I can go down the list of pieces of shits that need to be primaried in the GOP. But never will be. I am not just talking about the never Trumpers either. Of course my list of dems is a lot longer. Lol
No, not little fish becoming billionaires. It's a sliding... scale. I'd like to do away with billionaires as we know them today. "As we know them today" would mean undertaxed and buying politicians. We said we wouldn't have a king when we founded this country. An oligarchy is basically the same thing and if they have virtually unchecked power, they're de facto royalty.

Getting money out of politics is key. Easier said than done. I like the idea of eliminating all private contributions. Have a set standard for how to qualify for a ballot -- GOP, DNP, and maybe even Libertarians and Green Party could be grandfathered in, and others could get X number of signatures -- then give them all matching state funds for their campaign. Strengthen ethics and emolument laws. Ban elected officials and military personnel from stock-trading in office or working in certain fields after office. Raise their salaries to offset the greed a bit. (Just spittballin here; it's a rough draft.)

I'm not advocating for complete socialism or communism. There are tenets we've already adopted into US society: libraries, schools, roads, fire departments, etc. I'm in favor of more of it, not all of it. We should embrace unions more fully. We should unapologetically tell the rich that once their wealth amounts to the hoarding of resources, we're going to take it.

Socialism has failed, but not in a vacuum. The US has worked hard to undermine socialist regimes for more than a century. Where a socialist economy and a totalitarian govt coexist, the former is compromised anyway. Plus, capitalism has definitely failed a growing number of Americans. The American Dream is less attainable than it used to be.
 
No, not little fish becoming billionaires. It's a sliding... scale. I'd like to do away with billionaires as we know them today. "As we know them today" would mean undertaxed and buying politicians. We said we wouldn't have a king when we founded this country. An oligarchy is basically the same thing and if they have virtually unchecked power, they're de facto royalty.

Getting money out of politics is key. Easier said than done. I like the idea of eliminating all private contributions. Have a set standard for how to qualify for a ballot -- GOP, DNP, and maybe even Libertarians and Green Party could be grandfathered in, and others could get X number of signatures -- then give them all matching state funds for their campaign. Strengthen ethics and emolument laws. Ban elected officials and military personnel from stock-trading in office or working in certain fields after office. Raise their salaries to offset the greed a bit. (Just spittballin here; it's a rough draft.)

I'm not advocating for complete socialism or communism. There are tenets we've already adopted into US society: libraries, schools, roads, fire departments, etc. I'm in favor of more of it, not all of it. We should embrace unions more fully. We should unapologetically tell the rich that once their wealth amounts to the hoarding of resources, we're going to take it.

Socialism has failed, but not in a vacuum. The US has worked hard to undermine socialist regimes for more than a century. Where a socialist economy and a totalitarian govt coexist, the former is compromised anyway. Plus, capitalism has definitely failed a growing number of Americans. The American Dream is less attainable than it used to be.
“Once their wealth amounts to hoarding of resources, we’re going to take it”.
Confiscatory tax policies are wildly unpopular and detrimental to society as a whole. The super rich don’t bury their money in the backyard. They invest in companies, capital, banks etc. to keep the economy humming. You know, create jobs.
The private sector uses the $ much more efficiently than the govt ever could
And who decides when someone is no longer just wealthy and successful but has crossed the line into hoarding?
A bizarre post
 
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Socialism has failed, but not in a vacuum. The US has worked hard to undermine socialist regimes for more than a century. Where a socialist economy and a totalitarian govt coexist, the former is compromised anyway. Plus, capitalism has definitely failed a growing number of Americans. The American Dream is less attainable than it used to be.
Capitalism hasn't failed Americans. Our government has. They've expanded their sticky fingers. Which is also why the American Dream is less attainable now.
 
Capitalism hasn't failed Americans. Our government has. They've expanded their sticky fingers. Which is also why the American Dream is less attainable now.
Once again, you’re oversimplifying and putting forth a completely black & white claim.
 
No, not little fish becoming billionaires. It's a sliding... scale. I'd like to do away with billionaires as we know them today. "As we know them today" would mean undertaxed and buying politicians. We said we wouldn't have a king when we founded this country. An oligarchy is basically the same thing and if they have virtually unchecked power, they're de facto royalty.


Socialism has failed, but not in a vacuum. The US has worked hard to undermine socialist regimes for more than a century. Where a socialist economy and a totalitarian govt coexist, the former is compromised anyway. Plus, capitalism has definitely failed a growing number of Americans. The American Dream is less attainable than it used to be.
We generally agree on the section I deleted. Generally.

I don't believe that someone being richer than me really makes a difference in my quality of life. I tend to believe that being envious of others creates a culture of victimhood. I would however, like you, like to see their influence in government policy be lessened, which can only be achieved through legislation. This, neither you or I can claim high ground on.

I tend to believe that the government intervening in Capitalism has failed Americans more than Capitalism itself. You're not wrong about the American dream being less attainable than it used to be. To an extent. It's definitely more difficult for people in their 20's to be able to make it on their own, for sure. But it is a subjective thought on what the American dream really is. The opportunity to freely provide for your family and self is the biggest part of the dream, IMO. That's still there. Though road blocks created by a combination of policy and greed do exist.

I don't mean to say this in a way to say, fvck off, or anything like that. But this discussion has ran its course. In the 10 years of our interactions, I feel like this is legitimately the first time I can say we will end with a respectful ending where we can agree to disagree. Not that the opportunities weren't there before.
 
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We may not have known the specifics, but it was obvious he wasn’t ever fit to lead.

Us darn conspiracy theorists.
Not knowing the specifics was where you lose credit for this. You weren't suggesting he had merely declined; you were suggesting he couldn't find his way out of a paper bag. Nobody here ever suggested he was just as sharp as he was at 60. And until you are equally critical and eager to point out the same kind of political gaslighting among Republicans, your claims of being above party politics is total crap.


A Daniel Penny makes a difference. This is just horrific.
It is horrific. Full stop.
Acquitting Daniel Penny is one thing; glorifying him is another.
 
Democrats are embarrassed, and they should be. So many things are coming to light. We all knew Biden wasn’t fit since he was sworn in. Yet we were called names. Even @Dattier is trying to backpedal. Now he says we all knew Biden wasn’t as sharp as when he was 60. That’s bull. The honest truth is Biden has been unfit since 2020.

This should go down as one of the biggest scandals ever. The media now is doing a bigger backpedal than Datt is though. They know their lies are being caught now. And the only way out is to tell the truth, and they despise having to come clean.

Fewer are buying their lies and hatred anymore. Take note of this @Dattier.
 
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Democrats are embarrassed, and they should be. So many things are coming to light. We all knew Biden wasn’t fit since he was sworn in. Yet we were called names. Even @Dattier is trying to backpedal. Now he says we all knew Biden wasn’t as sharp as when he was 60. That’s bull. The honest truth is Biden has been unfit since 2020.

This should go down as one of the biggest scandals ever. The media now is doing a bigger backpedal than Datt is though. They know their lies are being caught now. And the only way out is to tell the truth, and they despise having to come clean.

Fewer are buying their lies and hatred anymore. Take note of this @Dattier
[/QUOTE]

Democrats are embarrassed, and they should be. So many things are coming to light. We all knew Biden wasn’t fit since he was sworn in. Yet we were called names. Even @Dattier is trying to backpedal. Now he says we all knew Biden wasn’t as sharp as when he was 60. That’s bull. The honest truth is Biden has been unfit since 2020.

This should go down as one of the biggest scandals ever. The media now is doing a bigger backpedal than Datt is though. They know their lies are being caught now. And the only way out is to tell the truth, and they despise having to come clean.

Fewer are buying their lies and hatred anymore. Take note of this @Dattier.
The Press Secretary actually accused Rep of Deep Faking footage of Biden wandering aimlessly around on stage when he didn’t know where he was or least of all where the exit ramp was.
Our grandchildren won’t believe it when we tell them some of the sh- that’s happened the last four years. Kamala was in meetings with him every day and claimed there was no mental decline. So why did he have to pull out of the race? Oh yeh, that debate.
Scary thing is, if that debate hadn’t coincided with one of Joes bad days, he might be Pres again.
Trump would have won but it would have been closer with Joe imho.
 
Daniel Penny showed courage and willingness to put himself at risk of injury or worse in order to protect a woman who was being threatened by an deranged lunatic with nothing to lose. That is worthy of being glorified. The left wants to call the guy who steps up and acts against violence the piece of shit. I would call him a piece of shit if he did nothing and something bad happened to the woman as a result. Society has become used to people pulling out their cell phones and recording when they see stuff like that in public. They don't know how to act when they see an actual act of heroism.
 
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A better example of what you're trying to put out there, @Dattier, is Kyle Rittenhouse. He was rightfully acquitted, but shouldn't be glorified for what he did.
 
A better example of what you're trying to put out there, @Dattier, is Kyle Rittenhouse. He was rightfully acquitted, but shouldn't be glorified for what he did.
He doesn’t care about facts or details. Black men are dead at the hands of white vigilantes. That’s the narrative his side will push, come hell or high water
 
He doesn’t care about facts or details. Black men are dead at the hands of white vigilantes. That’s the narrative his side will push, come hell or high water
All @Dattier knows is what he’s been trained to know, which stems from years of being in education. He says we parrot right wing talking points. We all know this is garbage. Many of us were saying things before a lot of them were. Biden’s mental state, Jan 6th, Covid, are just a few examples.

We simply use common sense, which is a lost art to many. Especially those like Datt.
 
A better example of what you're trying to put out there, @Dattier, is Kyle Rittenhouse. He was rightfully acquitted, but shouldn't be glorified for what he did.
He's indeed a better example, but Daniel Penny kept Jordan Neely in a chokehold beyond when others tried to intervene and tell him it was enough. It might have been the difference between Neely living and dying. It reminds me of a situation where someone may have been justified in shooting someone, but the threat of a gun probably would have been enough.
 
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All @Dattier knows is what he’s been trained to know, which stems from years of being in education. He says we parrot right wing talking points. We all know this is garbage. Many of us were saying things before a lot of them were. Biden’s mental state, Jan 6th, Covid, are just a few examples.

We simply use common sense, which is a lost art to many. Especially those like Datt.
The three examples you cite are three of many that point to the unprecedented level of corruption in the Msm and Dem Party.
For years, the Right was ridiculed for even suggesting the FBI was involved in Jan 6. Now, we’re told that there were 20 of them present, but they weren’t “actively involved”. Then why were they there?
Biden’s mental state: Republicans accused of Deep Fakes, elder abuse, partisan witch hunt when all the signs of dementia have been there for years: disorientation to time and place, mumbling, slurring, poor short and long term memory. We were told “ nothing to see here folks” simply b/c the Dems will do anything to hold onto power. He was their best chance; they tried to give Kamala a makeover but she was such a uniquely horrible candidate it was a failure.
 
Clemency for Federal death row inmates is an insult to their victims...just read about some of the crimes they committed and ask how they deserve any sympathy or compassion. They offered none to their victims
Don't be such a snowflake. People oppose the death penalty in part because we respect life, not because we disrespect the victims and their families.

Let me guess... you heard about this through a news source that highlighted the most adorable murder victims they could find and gave you graphic torture porn about how they died, thus getting you all worked up emotionally. People who are that easily swayed would have totally joined lynch mobs back in the day.

23 states and 109 countries don't allow the death penalty. Only 86 countries have it as a possibility.
 
Don't be such a snowflake. People oppose the death penalty in part because we respect life, not because we disrespect the victims and their families.

Let me guess... you heard about this through a news source that highlighted the most adorable murder victims they could find and gave you graphic torture porn about how they died, thus getting you all worked up emotionally. People who are that easily swayed would have totally joined lynch mobs back in the day.

23 states and 109 countries don't allow the death penalty. Only 86 countries have it as a possibility.
They did not respect the lives of their victims, so they don't deserve our respect for theirs...and Im the snowflake?? lol
 
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They did not respect the lives of their victims, so they don't deserve our respect for theirs...and Im the snowflake?? lol
I understand why some people support the death penalty. You clearly don't have a freakin clue why the majority of people don't support it.

Yes, you're the snowflake.
 
I understand why some people support the death penalty. You clearly don't have a freakin clue why the majority of people don't support it.

Yes, you're the snowflake.
You never fail to show your true self - i applaud you for that.. lol 🤡 Merry Christmas and to all, a good night
 
I support the death penalty, but understand why some people would be opposed to it. What I don't understand is how some people can support abortion and then turn around and say "we respect life" when it comes to people who used their free will to commit atrocious acts against innocent victims. Pretty funny.
 
He's indeed a better example, but Daniel Penny kept Jordan Neely in a chokehold beyond when others tried to intervene and tell him it was enough. It might have been the difference between Neely living and dying. It reminds me of a situation where someone may have been justified in shooting someone, but the threat of a gun probably would have been enough.
It was the opinion of others, sure. But it was Penny who was physically engaged with an unpredictable man and chose to maintain the control over him until the police arrived.
 
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I support the death penalty, but understand why some people would be opposed to it. What I don't understand is how some people can support abortion and then turn around and say "we respect life" when it comes to people who used their free will to commit atrocious acts against innocent victims. Pretty funny.
You’re not too stupid to understand the idea that fetuses and children are different, whether you agree with it or not. You know you’re not going to convince me.
You understand the logic of how I’ve reached that conclusion.
You’re repeating this here to get thumbs-up from the gallery.
 
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We care about this life...



But not so much this life...


Another emotional appeal = conservatives are snowflakes

Justice should be administered using logic, not emotion.

It’s conservatives who call for public executions of Colin Kaepernick, Barack Obama, and Roy Cooper. It’s conservatives who think death penalty debates should be about the grisly details or victim cuteness. It’s all emotion. Death penalty as justice for the family = revenge = emotion.

It’s conservatives who think pictures of babies are how you win abortion debates. It’s conservatives who think the heinous crime a single undocumented immigrant committed is how you win immigration debates. All emotion, no logic.

I oppose the death penalty in all cases. It’s principle, not emotion. It’s not about the value of the murderers’ lives; it’s about being better than them as a society.
 
You’re not too stupid to understand the idea that fetuses and children are different, whether you agree with it or not. You know you’re it going to convince me.
You understand the logic of how I’ve reached that conclusion.
You’re repeating this here to get thumbs-up from the gallery.
Life, datt. Life. That fetus is a life.

Another emotional appeal = conservatives are snowflakes

Justice should be administered using logic, not emotion.

It’s conservatives who call for public executions of Colin Kaepernick, Barack Obama, and Roy Cooper. It’s conservatives who think death penalty debates should be about the grisly details or victim cuteness. It’s all emotion. Death penalty as justice for the family = revenge = emotion.

It’s conservatives who think pictures of babies are how you win abortion debates. It’s conservatives who think the heinous crime a single undocumented immigrant committed is how you win immigration debates. All emotion, no logic.

I oppose the death penalty in all cases. It’s principle, not emotion. It’s not about the value of the murderers’ lives; it’s about being better than them as a society.
This entire post was all emotion and no logic. I oppose the death penalty in all cases of the innocent, unborn child. It's not about the value of the mother's freedom, it's about the baby not having the choice to live. Removing the fact that a human fetus is a life and not just simply a clump of cells is how democrats think they win abortion debates. You want a person who made a conscious decision to rape, murder and mutilate other people to have human rights, but you refuse to call a fetus a human. I tell you what, if I had to die defending one of their lives, it sure as hell wouldn't be the guy on death row. But, that's just me.
 
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Life, datt. Life. That fetus is a life.


This entire post was all emotion and no logic. I oppose the death penalty in all cases of the innocent, unborn child. It's not about the value of the mother's freedom, it's about the baby not having the choice to live. Removing the fact that a human fetus is a life and not just simply a clump of cells is how democrats think they win abortion debates. You want a person who made a conscious decision to rape, murder and mutilate other people to have human rights, but you refuse to call a fetus a human. I tell you what, if I had to die defending one of their lives, it sure as hell wouldn't be the guy on death row. But, that's just me.
So you are too stupid to understand where I'm coming from, whether you agree or not.

Every appeal you made with the pictures and the gory details of individual atrocities is an emotional appeal. I have the same emotional reaction, but I don't let it cloud my judgment. Principle is principle.
 
So you are too stupid to understand where I'm coming from, whether you agree or not.

Every appeal you made with the pictures and the gory details of individual atrocities is an emotional appeal. I have the same emotional reaction, but I don't let it cloud my judgment. Principle is principle.
Oh no. I know where you're coming from. It's from a dishonest place where you lie to yourself in order to be able to sleep at night. Your comment about the cuteness of the victims is pretty trashy, btw. I respect your stance on the death penalty. I get that. You're just a hypocrite with your support of abortion. Just because you choose to look at an unborn child as nothing but a clump of cells not worthy of the title human being, doesn't make you right. It's just a cop out to excuse a disgusting view.
 
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So you are too stupid to understand where I'm coming from, whether you agree or not.

Every appeal you made with the pictures and the gory details of individual atrocities is an emotional appeal. I have the same emotional reaction, but I don't let it cloud my judgment. Principle is principle.

Diddlier....so you support executing fetuses but don't support executing cold blooded murders. Got it!

Did you buy your wife's boyfriend a Christmas gift this year?
 
This administration can't end soon enough. Too bad @SDevada tucked her tail and went into hiding. She loved to repeat the lies about how good the economy has been and all the jobs that we were supposed to believe existed. You know, they tried to put Trump in jail for embellishing his worth to get loans. That he paid off with interest. CEOs would get jail time for misleading shareholders by lying about earnings. But fraud is fine when it comes to ole pedo Joe.



Every single jobs report under this administration has been revised downwards and some significantly. Later and quietly after the public already saw the initial reports, of course.
 
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