The New Lounge
- Thread starter hpnole
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You do a lot of explaining away. I stopped reading google results after I saw the number of police vehicles burned pass 200 between NYC, Minneapolis, Philadelphia and Seattle. No doubt there were many many more across the country. Hell, I wonder what the number would be in LA. Not enough to look it up though. That's just burned, not the many more damaged or destroyed in other ways. And yes, in Philadelphia, Minneapolis and Portland, I remember precincts being set of fire. I know the one in Minneapolis was totally destroyed by the fire. I said in some cases, not hundreds of precincts.
Anyways. It's important not to get sidetracked into a totally different topic. Your comments on how some protesters weren't handled lightly, or however you stated it, isn't including full context. Like, were people just protesting in a peaceful demonstration and cops just decided to go rough them up? Is there evidence of this? Or were there demonstrations where things got unruly and people defied orders and THEN some cops overreached their authority? I am not excusing bad or criminal policing. I am just curious if there is an example of the police flat out disrupting people's right to protest without any other cause.
Also, BOOGIEMAN1914 claimed that it was the opposition that caused the non peaceful demonstrations or the violence and destruction. My question was if he was claiming that the police were the opposition that he was talking about.
No, Rev. Don’t do what you do best, shift. Stay with me please. I made a post, which you conveniently skipped, and gave you some additional truths, which you will in all likelihood deny.
I’m asking you to not go Rev on me here. Please, I’m asking you, read what I said.
You also didn’t answer my question.
this is what I said...." that got out of hand when opposition, far greater than what we saw last week at the Capitol, tried to prevent and disrupt peaceful intended protests"...of course you had bad intentioned people that sully some things........prime example...peaceful protesting, tear gassed to clear the street........people peacefully marching only to met with the barrels of automatic weapons in their faces....people being forcibly removed from streets or attacked w/ clubs for standing...yeah, some of those types of sights and police engagement helped spawn the craziness when the intent was to protest how policing has been going on
Fair enough. I misread the precinct part to say hundreds of precincts.
The next part is some combination of both, I'm sure. I do know from first-hand video and second-hand accounts there were cases of police who showed up to peaceful protests and basically started handling folks. There were protests and marches that were interrupted. There was of course the President's photo op. These are the ones that stand in stark contrast to how a lot of officer interaction appeared in DC last week.
I also know there were cases where things got out of hand and police started handling anyone in sight, which often included individuals who were not doing anything criminal.
The problem with looking at the protests in a bubble by themselves is that it was the initial police action (sometimes in the same neighborhood where the action occurred) which led to the protests.
If an individual or community has been violently wronged (think bullied) and now that individual is staring at those who wronged them and has support, back-up, underhand, whatever, a lot might spillover from the previous situation. Again, this is not condone or excuse violence, but simply providing context.
Okay. These conversations tend go all kinds of directions. But you guys seem to like to tell partial stories. For instance. The tear gassing to clear roads. If you are asked to move and you refuse. You are not peacefully protesting. We agree that Trump’s bible photo op, as an example, was stupid. But those people were not tear gassed so he could take the photo op. They were dispersed with force because they refused lawful orders to move back. They were given almost an hour and multiple warnings. The guy was not shot with rubber bullets for protesting. He was shot with rubber bullets because he threw a brick at cops. He should have been shot with real bullets IMO.
There are many other incidents that protesters were gassed or removed by other forces. But I am willing to bet that 99% of those incidents were after the crowds were given lawful orders to disperse and they either refused or worse, fought the cops. I am fully willing to acknowledge that cops abused their power in many cases during these protests/riots. But you're going to have to show me some hard evidence that shows where cops just blatantly denied anyone's right to protest peacefully enough to be considered the opposition to peaceful protesters.
This goes to accountability and who you want to be held accountable.
There are many other incidents that protesters were gassed or removed by other forces. But I am willing to bet that 99% of those incidents were after the crowds were given lawful orders to disperse and they either refused or worse, fought the cops. I am fully willing to acknowledge that cops abused their power in many cases during these protests/riots. But you're going to have to show me some hard evidence that shows where cops just blatantly denied anyone's right to protest peacefully enough to be considered the opposition to peaceful protesters.
This goes to accountability and who you want to be held accountable.
Bond Modification Sought After Alleged Kenosha Killer Kyle Rittenhouse Drinks Beer, Flashes White Power Signs With So-Called 'Proud Boys'
"The defendant's continued association with members of a group that prides itself on violence, and the use of their symbols, raises the significant possibility of future harm."
www.commondreams.org
These are situations that are always seen through two different lenses.
You say it's all right to command a peaceful crowd of protesters disperse and if they don't clear the way they should be dealt with.
I say if all a group of protesters is doing is chanting, marching and blocking a street in response to yet another unarmed Black man being killed at the hands of a law enforcement officer who will (history tells us) most likely not serve jail time they should probably be left alone until they do something actually criminal.
Well. I tend to acknowledge that there were incidents where the cops abused their power. You tend to excuse all behavior by protesters. A lot of that boils down to what we call peaceful protests. The definition got changed dramatically over the summer. If protesters are unlawfully blocking traffic, which is what led to a lot of altercations, they are not being peaceful. You want to focus on the events where the cops, in your opinion, prevented people from protesting peacefully. But ignore the many more occasions where they allowed protesters to go well beyond the scopes of peacefully protesting. Including harassing patrons, blocking traffic and damaging or destroying public and private property. They are going through extreme measures to find and hold accountable the idiots who entered the capitol building last week. As they should. Absolutely. But they won't be doing that, nor is there a call for them to do that for the people who destroyed businesses and vandalized property over the summer on a large scale.
For every person who was mishandled by the police over the summer, I'd bet there are at least 100 that wasn't held accountable for wrongdoing. That may be a huge under estimation, actually.
I've said a lot of times that I don't approve of busting out windows and destroying property.
There were a lot of arrests made this summer and early fall. I'm sure many were for for people who caused damage to property.
At the end of the day, there would be no reason for the protests if there wasn't a continued stream of law enforcement killing unarmed Blacks and rarely suffering criminal repercussions.
We all care more about what directly impacts our lives. You agree with that, as you pretty much echo that when you talk about how you vote. I don't fault you for that.
As I've said, I don't condone violence or destroying property. Prosecution for both is legitimate.
Another Black murder by cop moves me to call for justice much more than protesters inconveniencing drivers while seeking justice for the dead.
What you said is all true. The problem, as said many times, is the MEDIA. If they were honest, there wouldn't be division like there is. But, how's a liberal poster on here going to believe a conservative poster when our story doesn't match up with the msm? Even worse though is the media are doing what they're told to do.
If they had simply an ounce of decency in them, the viewers would perhaps start to believe. It's really that simple.
It's become so bad that now when someone like @Jtre posts a video of Trump speaking about immigration and Mexicans, that what he sees and what I saw are 2 different things. I know Trump said nothing wrong, and have heard him many times compliment immigrants, it's the scum from Mexico he's talking about. But Ol Rev, in his own little twisted, anti Trump world, refuses to see it for how it really is.
The problem is. We are acting like police "murdering" black people is some sort of epidemic. It is not. It is a false narrative that gets exaggerated by a political party that pounces on the opportunity to cause division and has a dishonest and complicit media to enhance the impact. It is the inability by us as society to separate individual cases and judge them accordingly that gives them the power to control the minds and emotions of millions of people. It is easily the biggest divisive tool in America.
You believing that police are murdering black people to the point where last summer can somehow be justified is no different than the people protesting the election believing that the election was stolen and that the government is in contempt to the point where last week's events can somehow be justified. But we're veering off course again.
I think the idea that the police were opposition to peaceful protests is a ridiculous statement. To even consider it was the police who were responsible for things getting out of control is being willfully ignorant. IMO, of course.
I'm not sure if epidemic is a term I'd use, but let's look at it this way. Additionally, I am not trying justify violence or destruction of property. I absolutely think the hurt, anger, outrage and, yes, peaceful protests were justified.
Going with the absolute lowest averages (this is by gunshot which would not include cases like George Floyd), I can count on at least once a month, waking up and reading about an unarmed Black man being shot and killed by a law enforcement officer. By anyone's standard, that should be too damn many.
Police have to take some blame for any of the protests getting out of hand simply because if the police hadn't gotten out of hand, there would have been no protest.
If George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery (ex-cop, covered up by local law enforcement), Breonna Taylor and Rayshard Brooks hadn't been killed in such a rapid fire fashion, would all the protests have occurred?
A few things. One, I don’t know the numbers from last year, but there was a WP article that said in 2019 there were 10 unarmed black men killed by the police.
1. That lacks context.
2. That doesn't mean unjustified, let alone murder.
3. That doesn't mean that race played any role in the case. Whatsoever.
4. Doesn't meet your once a month standard.
No. Terrible take.
I have no way of knowing. I don't believe those cases were the driving force behind nationwide protests and chaos. I think that deliberate misinformation and gaslighting was. But let me ask again. I will let common sense take control of the Ahmaud Arbery case and say that I absolutely believe that race played a role. But is there any reason why we should believe that race played a role in any of the other cases? Why don't we protest every time unarmed PEOPLE are killed by the police? I have an idea why. Anyone with an objective mind has an idea why.
Stats of deaths by police last 4 years off of just a quick google:
2017—457 whites 223 blacks
2018—399 209
2019—370 235
2020—432 226
Sure these stats can be debated, and don’t know the circumstances either. Are there times the police mess up, yes, but there’s accountability that needs to be taken from the other side too.
2017—457 whites 223 blacks
2018—399 209
2019—370 235
2020—432 226
Sure these stats can be debated, and don’t know the circumstances either. Are there times the police mess up, yes, but there’s accountability that needs to be taken from the other side too.
This part of your post is awful. You just basically said to the police: you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
As a general rule, you're saying exactly what most conservatives say: the police can't win for losing.
This article cites the Washington Post database. It puts the number at 13. It also goes into reasons why the number could be higher.
Fact check: Police killed more unarmed Black men in 2019 than conservative activist claimed
A prominent conservative activist said in a Facebook video that police only killed eight unarmed Black men in the U.S. in 2019. That claim is false.
www.usatoday.com
You called my statement about police accountability, but it is simple and direct logic. A + B = C. If you pull either a or b out, the equation falls apart. In this case, a led to b which led to c.
You said you don't think those cases led to the protests. You think it was misinformation and gaslighting. I don't really have a response for that. You mentioned once before about your three Black co-workers. I don't know how close you are with them, but if it's anything beyond casual, ask them their opinions. Plead with them to tell you their honest opinions and assure them it's because you want to learn. Then let me know if you really think all this is an entire race of people being led astray by the sinister media.
I have an idea as to why there is not protests and outrage everytime a cop kills an unarmed person of any race, but it is really just a theory.
We all care about what impacts us. Black folks, most minorities I imagine, understand that bearing the weight if the rest of the race is a real thing. That's what leads to the personal reaction every time an unarmed Black man gets shot in a misdemeanor situation.
White people simply don't have that same experience in this country. No matter how many white serial killers or school shooters there may be, the average walking around white guy doesn't get lumped in with them.
Those different sets of circumstances allows one to compartmentalize and essentially say, "that's not me, that was that guy." The other one doesn't get to say that.
No. I said if police hadn't basically executed George Floyd and Rayshard Brooks, covered up their brethren's murder of Ahmaud Arbery and messed up a no-knock warrant in the case of Breonna Taylor the protests wouldn't have happened.
That's not damned if you do and damned if you don't.
You haven’t found me anywhere on here or anywhere, defending the police for Floyd’s death, or the others that were found to be the fault of the police. The no knock warrant wasn’t the police’s fault. They were fired upon first. Read that again.
You’re shifting again. I quoted your part blaming the police for protests that get out of hand. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth, and in turn, ya screwed the pooch. But I’m not surprised by your reply. You should have manned up and admitted you were wrong. But, we wouldn’t expect you to do the right thing.
You really do deserve to be called Rev. You should get up with the head race baiter, Rev Al and join his phony movement. You’re meant for each other.
You did quote that, but apparently you didn't comprehend. Exact wording was, "if the police hadn't gotten out of hand, there would have been no protest." Included in the pose, it's clear that was meant to say the police got out of hand when they killed (and in Arbery's case covered up) the individuals I named. Those killings led to the protests.
In regards to Breonna Taylor, I said messed up a no-knock warrant. By definition, a no-knock warrant means you don't knock.
By various accounts, the officers knocked but didn't announce. That means that Taylor's boyfriend heard somebody banging on the door and then the door comes down. By knocking (as they shouldn't have done) but not announcing (as they should have done if they were going to knock) they gave him the chance to ready his weapon as he thought (understandably) he was the victim of a home invasion. That supports the idea that she would still be alive if the officers had correctly performed their jobs.
It's funny you would talk about manning up and admitting when wrong. I'm not sure I've ever heard you admit to being wrong or out of line about anything on this board.
I’m not wrong dealing with you. You’re wrong, but refuse to admit it. You’ve repeatedly shown your true colors, then backpedal and avoid what is being talked about. You’re slick, Rev.
BREAKING REPORT: First Extremist In Capitol Building Seige Is Identified As BLM/Antifa Activist: “We gotta f***ing rip Trump right outta that office!” [VIDEO]
Far-Left Antifa/BLM activist John Sullivan has been identified as one of the people who allegedly was part of the siege […]
100percentfedup.com
Isn’t he the guy there “just filming?”
Sure.
According to your fact check article (ugh) you obliterated point #4. Still doesn't include context, prove unjust or show where race played any role whatsoever. And again, it certainly doesn't support your narrative that these are murders.This article cites the Washington Post database. It puts the number at 13. It also goes into reasons why the number could be higher.
Fact check: Police killed more unarmed Black men in 2019 than conservative activist claimed
A prominent conservative activist said in a Facebook video that police only killed eight unarmed Black men in the U.S. in 2019. That claim is false.www.usatoday.com
I am not sure I called any of your statements about police accountability. But what you're saying here is completely subjective to one's own beliefs and feelings. Not based on facts. We'll address this later.
Oh man. I said I had no way of knowing if those cases led to ALL of the protests occurring. As in the nationwide protests. And yes, misinformation and gaslighting is what I put most of the blame on. How many people were protesting Breonna Taylor's death believing that the cops went to the wrong address and shot her through the walls while she was sleeping in her bed? #can't sleep. Gaslighting, media's constant coverage of only the part of the videos where cops shoot a black person not the parts leading up to the shooting. Gaslighting. The media rushing to control the story only presenting the fact that a man with a knife, and only a knife is "mowed" down by cops. Gaslighting. The media says a black man is gunned down by the police in front of his children. Delaying the information that he was armed, assaulted an officer, was unfazed by a taser and was reaching in his vehicle while ignoring orders. Gaslighting. Unarmed black man shot in back. (Media) nevermind there was a lot more to the story, including the fact that he was not unarmed. Gaslighting. Race was portrayed by the media as being the root cause of these incidents without a single reason to assume that race was the key factor other than dishonest misinformation in an effort to perpetuate a false narrative in order to cause division.
As for my coworkers, I have said before that every black person's opinion is different. Every black person's experience is different. I will just say one thing on this. One of them voted for Trump because he is tired of being portrayed as a victim. Only a few black people I know or interact with ever even hint at the idea that they feel victimized by society. And most are insulted by the idea. It's all in where you live, I suppose.
I have an idea why we have selective outrage and don't really give a shit when PEOPLE are killed by police. But it is really just a theory.
You're not making sense here. This is a cross between progressive talking points without any factual backing and comparing something completely unrelated to the point. We're not talking about how black people are viewed by society, we're talking about how they are supposedly being murdered by police. And how it is sensationalized by the left and the media.
Every death is tragic. Just or unjust. But it just doesn't have a good ring to it when you read a headline that says, "Man shot by police after resisting arrest." It has THAT ring to it when it reads, "Unarmed black man shot and killed by white police officer." So what we do is bury stories that don't involve black people and blow up stories that do. Police brutality wouldn't even be in the top 10 of issues affecting the black community if your were to put together an honest list.
BREAKING REPORT: First Extremist In Capitol Building Seige Is Identified As BLM/Antifa Activist: “We gotta f***ing rip Trump right outta that office!” [VIDEO]
Far-Left Antifa/BLM activist John Sullivan has been identified as one of the people who allegedly was part of the siege […]
Isn’t he the guy there “just filming?”
Sure.
I said last week he broke the law. I clicked the article but can't view the video. Can you provide a direct link to the video.
I'm curious to how this little dude was inside the capitol yelling about ripping Trump out of office when everyone around him was there in support of Trump. That seems strange.
Yes you did. His claim is that he was there to film. This disputes that. He wasn’t the only Antifa/BLM person in there, no matter what msm tries to say.
Let’s just say there was only 1 Antifa/BLM person that went inside the Capitol, even though there were more. That’s 1 more than the left has said were there.
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I'm actually going to check out of this conversation because, as I mentioned months ago, this becomes very emotionally draining. I can talk politics and sports all day. Debating this particular subject is taxing.
There are a few things I'd like to type and I hope none come across as combative, as I'm not trying to be that way with you.
1. You mentioned the Black folks you know not feeling victimized by society (something to that effect). A person can recognize that society tends to have different rules for different people without feeling like they're a victim.
2. A lot of what we are talking about is subjective, however, data analysis tells us that Blacks and whites are policed differently.
3. Don't blame the media for how they present police-involved homicides or the coverage brutality gets. Personal experience and the experiences of those around you goes a lot further than the media.
4. I agree about every death is a tragedy. Truthfully, I would like to see more people get upset about the overall number of police shootings each year. 1000 a year is too many. As a society we need to get to the bottom of what is leading to all that death and get to fixing it.
5. I guess you can give your opinion about the biggest issues facing the Black community, but I'm not sure what would make you qualified.
I'd like to be clear. The reason I go out of my way to be respectful in my interactions with you is because you seem like a good dude. We just disagree on stuff, and our life experiences probably play a big part in that.
A while back, @Mac9192 made the comment that he would bet money you are less racist than the liberals on here (in his world everything is left and right). I didn't comment but I meant, too. I don't think you're racist and I hope I have never given the impression I thought that.
Column: I took part in a pro-Trump attack on the US Capitol and now I have to face consequences? That’s tyranny!
The pro-Trump domestic terrorists who stormed the U.S. Capitol are losing jobs, Republicans who egged them on are losing corporate donors and right-wing pundits are being told they'll be fired if they keep saying the election was stolen.
I heard on TV the Gateway Pundit had videos up, so I searched and found this.
Two things I noticed from Twitter and TV.
It is being implied the, "burn it down," and, "rip [Trump] out of office," comments were made either at or inside the Capitol building on January 6th. As you can clearly see by looking at the video from the video from last week, the other video was from quite a while back, so that doesn't prove he was enraging anybody during the Capitol riot last week.
The second thing, if you pay attention to Twitter and Lou Dobbs (my wife actually asks why I will occasionally watch him; I can't help it, I know he's not close to real news but dude is f--king hilarious to me) you will quickly realize that every voice in that roughly 4.5 minute video is attributed to Sullivan. He may be filming, but he's not providing every, or maybe, any of the quotes picked up in the video. The video, from what I also could tell, doesn't actually show him doing any of the violent actions. Like I said before, he was there and inside, so he broke the law.
Yes, you have said he was there. But, everyone left of center has been saying it was ONLY Trump supporters inside the Capitol on the 6th. We know that is a lie.I heard on TV the Gateway Pundit had videos up, so I searched and found this.
Two things I noticed from Twitter and TV.
It is being implied the, "burn it down," and, "rip [Trump] out of office," comments were made either at or inside the Capitol building on January 6th. As you can clearly see by looking at the video from the video from last week, the other video was from quite a while back, so that doesn't prove he was enraging anybody during the Capitol riot last week.
The second thing, if you pay attention to Twitter and Lou Dobbs (my wife actually asks why I will occasionally watch him; I can't help it, I know he's not close to real news but dude is f--king hilarious to me) you will quickly realize that every voice in that roughly 4.5 minute video is attributed to Sullivan. He may be filming, but he's not providing every, or maybe, any of the quotes picked up in the video. The video, from what I also could tell, doesn't actually show him doing any of the violent actions. Like I said before, he was there and inside, so he broke the law.
Why would a known Antifa/BLM guy show up to a Trump rally? I sure wouldn’t be anywhere near a BLM rally.
The truth is, there were others there too, and their intent wasn’t good.
It’s also more proof just how corrupt the media is.
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I don't take any as combative. It is a hard topic, one that I feel a lot of people put too much misplaced emotions into. As I am sure you have figured out by now, I think that this issue is something that politics and yes, the media has molested in a way that there is no coming back from. And the people that get caught up in the middle of it are the minorities that we are supposedly sticking up for.
I am fine moving on. But I have to address your Comment on the media and how we shouldn't blame them for how they cover these stories. Your wording is evidence enough. Police involved homicides. We've established that we both find just and unjust deaths to be a tragedy. What we're so far apart on is the use of the term murder or homicide. It is not that cut and dry. Walter Scott. Absolutely a homicide. That cop is serving 20 years in prison. I think it should be more, but there are other circumstances that played a role. Michael Brown, a perfect example of the media playing a significant role in the public's reaction. And unarmed black man who was killed by the police. Are you calling that a homicide? The point is the media controls perception. They control emotions to a degree. If they covered stories honestly and not in a way to get the biggest reaction possible, who knows how the masses would react. They offer no solutions or fair coverage to get the other side of the story. They only give the side that sparks the most outrage. I just wish people would see it.
As long as our eyes stay closed to the evil that is our media, we will forever be divided. This isn't a Trump talking point. This is honesty. For decades our country has manipulated the minds of citizens of other countries through the "hearts and minds" by running misinformation campaigns through news feeds. To think they wouldn't do it on a domestic level would be naive.
Haven't we been hearing this for years? They aren't letting this see the light of day. And even if it did, no one would care. We only want the terrorists in the conservative party held accountable for wrongdoing.
Yes, we've been hearing about this type of stuff for years. Nothing ever comes of any of it due to the massive amount that are corrupt. The media does their job too by not talking about it, or the accusers are called crazy, and beat to death of any and all credibility.
So the cycle continues. The elite have proven they're too big to go down. They get richer, while we fuss, cuss, point fingers, and stay divided. Almost seems like it's by design, huh?
So the cycle continues. The elite have proven they're too big to go down. They get richer, while we fuss, cuss, point fingers, and stay divided. Almost seems like it's by design, huh?
1. What are the rules?
2. How do “data analysis” tell us whites and blacks are “policed differently”?
3 What’s the definition of homicide?
4. Deff not defunding the police
5. Fair, how are you qualified?
6.
Each will need their own ball Ipsy....OFC
