POLL: Reason why we lost to Syracuse
- Thread starter BluePhil
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I think it's a multitude of things! Duke got away from Tatum a bit in the second half! Defense wasn't good. Fast break offense was terrible! Like Vitale said, Duke should have been up by 15 or 16 at the half. Grayson chucking up the three with time left on the shot clock with under a minute left really didn't help things. Sucks but what can u do? onto the next one.
Let's Go Duke!!
Let's Go Duke!!
Allen smdh that's the shot you take up two? No thoughts or consideration to ATTACK and maybe get to the line? They were probably begging for that kind of shot and you're s junior and you give them what they want.
I thought we fought and took some punches. In the end I think we lost due to poor execution and game plan don't the stretch. Not a way we lose often.
I was mad, I've moved on. Biggest goal still well within reach.
Will say I thought tonight was a night 2 bigs should have seen minutes together. This 7 is wearing out. Allen is severely hobbled. Like should not have played. No way we don't have options on the bench to compete with an avg Cuse team.
I was mad, I've moved on. Biggest goal still well within reach.
Will say I thought tonight was a night 2 bigs should have seen minutes together. This 7 is wearing out. Allen is severely hobbled. Like should not have played. No way we don't have options on the bench to compete with an avg Cuse team.
There was a point in the game that I thought the same thing. I would've liked to have seen Amile and Harry in at the same time, especially on the defensive end when they kept driving on us.
I just don't know what Grayson was thinking. It shouldn't have been that close but why would he even shoot that 30 foot three with 10 seconds on the shot clock. That UNC dagger has gone to his head
Yea if it were any other team those luck shots would not have gone in but because it's Duke they go in. SMH!
I think the reason we lost is because we shot the ball poorly and couldn't play any kind of D in the second half. OFC
If Grayson hit that shot the same people tearing him down would be calling him a stone-cold killer. Was it a great shot? No. But Grayson has made some of those before. Good players take difficult and clutch shots.
I thought we lost because we got away from getting Tatum touches down the stretch. He doesn't need to shoot, but he wasn't even a part of our offense.
Also, we just missed on too many opportunities in that first half. The lead should have stretched out to double-digits but we didn't capitalize.
Lastly, we need Grayson to get out of this funk. We can't be really good unless he becomes really good again.
I thought we lost because we got away from getting Tatum touches down the stretch. He doesn't need to shoot, but he wasn't even a part of our offense.
Also, we just missed on too many opportunities in that first half. The lead should have stretched out to double-digits but we didn't capitalize.
Lastly, we need Grayson to get out of this funk. We can't be really good unless he becomes really good again.
All the above. Nobody was good entire game. Tatum did his damage in 1st half, Kennard most of his damage 2nd half. Our bigs didn't get enough touches, Bolden sitting whole game is a head scratcher, and I know he's best ever and I'll catch heat for saying this but K because of lack of inside game deserves some criticism and not doing anything different defensively to try combating guard foul troubles. And why do we seem to be only team I've watched where on screens our guards get caught against their bigs
This is true. I wanted Tatum or Luke with the ball tonight but next game it might be Grayson and Tatum and the next Luke and Grayson.. we have three players capable of carrying us but not always all on the same night
It's still a bad shot whether he made it or not. Just like the shot against Carolina was bad. He just made it though. He has to recognize that Tatum and Kennard are the people that were on and should take that shot. It was a bad decision.
Sky I really think you hit right on it. Abysmal 3pt shooting, (not atypical for a dome), and I sound like a broken record but why do we get beat off dribble to hoop so much? Wonder why THIS GROUP has never really been able to buy into Vintage Duke Defense on a consistent basis. K said only person playing D after game was "Matty Ice," and of course he didnt give us much at other end.Of course neither did Jackson either...
OFC
Classic "bad loss" from Duke over the past 10-15 years. When K loses all confidence in his bench because he's afraid to lose we wind up in tight games that while we win our share we also lose a lot because of the pressure down the stretch. Especially to underdogs who have nothing to lose.
The thing that gets to me is that if K didn't have 3 of those starters had the next 6-7 on the team that he was forced to play, I think we would actually wind up not that much worse than where we are right now.
If this is how the bench is used and we play this way - we'll be out of the ACC at the semis if not before and out of the tourney in the 1st two rounds. If it goes that way, I expect Bolden will transfer. Maybe one other. It would be different if Duke were only recruiting 1-3 players a year and only 2 top 20 guys. Then these guys would believe they'd have a deeper shot. But, with K going hard after 1 and done types, that creates an undo pressure.
Losses happen. I'd have rather we lost with 8-9 players getting minutes and playing hard but maybe shooting bad than lose this way. jmo
The thing that gets to me is that if K didn't have 3 of those starters had the next 6-7 on the team that he was forced to play, I think we would actually wind up not that much worse than where we are right now.
If this is how the bench is used and we play this way - we'll be out of the ACC at the semis if not before and out of the tourney in the 1st two rounds. If it goes that way, I expect Bolden will transfer. Maybe one other. It would be different if Duke were only recruiting 1-3 players a year and only 2 top 20 guys. Then these guys would believe they'd have a deeper shot. But, with K going hard after 1 and done types, that creates an undo pressure.
Losses happen. I'd have rather we lost with 8-9 players getting minutes and playing hard but maybe shooting bad than lose this way. jmo
Yep. My issue is that Tatum wasn't even a decoy. It was like the game against BC where we just decided Luke wasn't even going to touch the ball. It made no sense.
Grayson/ still hurt
Amile/ still healing
No true bench. Really thought Cuse executed way better down the stretch can't say overtime, Duke would have won three guards with four fouls.
But Duke loss because of a last minute bank three. I'll take it but good points made by all
Amile/ still healing
No true bench. Really thought Cuse executed way better down the stretch can't say overtime, Duke would have won three guards with four fouls.
But Duke loss because of a last minute bank three. I'll take it but good points made by all
I still have no problem with Grayson shooting a 3, I don't care how many he's missed. He was bad tonight but I still think everytime he shoots it can go in. He's off right now but this loss ain't all on him. If you're open Grayson keep shooting
not one player - execution and discipline from the whole team. First half we should have been up 20 easily...that would have hurt Cuse's confidence and been a comfortable lead. But we blew all our odd man fast breaks and chose some terrible shots..lead was only 8. Second half we lost all semblance of organization on the defensive end, no determination or even a glimpse that they were mad when they got beaten on the dribble. We made average guards look like Curry and Westbrook for goodness sake. Add in the hope and pray 3 pt contest and we let Cuse get into the game and win it. One thing old roy does at least is play a deeper team if the top players are not producing or playing poorly he isnt afraid to play his bench....its just not something Coach K does and sometimes i think the players need to know a lax effort has consequences.
Thought this year would be impossible to play a short bench. K seems to find reasons to not play guys. If bolden has a bad attitude or whatever is not allowing him to play then it should be the next guy because vrank and jeter have enough time in the program that they would not hurt the team as long as they are playing a role.
Overall the team is doing a lot better but there are some things that have bugged me for years and doesn't seem to be adjusted during the year or in offseason(short bench and bad defense)
Overall the team is doing a lot better but there are some things that have bugged me for years and doesn't seem to be adjusted during the year or in offseason(short bench and bad defense)
Don't ever want to play as deep of a bench as Roy (example how did Lawson play only 20 min a game his freshmen year). But k is so far on the other end of the spectrum it is quite obnoxious.
K is going to do things his way. I agree with you. As brilliant as he is, and I think he's one of the best ever, he's hardheaded. I don't know why sometimes he doesn't throw zone out there (especially when fouls are issue), I don't understand why we struggle to get solid production from our bigs, and why he doesn't play more guys. I hate the Tar Holes but they get production from their bigs. If I was a stud high school big man, I'd go to Chapel Hill, if I'm a stud wing or guard, I'd pick Durham
It's hard not to question the shot selection, but if it went in and we go up 5 with under a minute, it's pretty much game over, and he's our hero. Allen had a rough night on both ends, no question about it, but he's a shooter, a scorer, and an upperclassman on the floor at the end of the game. What's that they say about every big shooter/scorer type? They miss their first ten, the expect to make the next ten. I can't fault the kid too much for taking a shot he has made plenty of times.
Go Duke!
Alan
We also just didn't attack the zone. Every offensive possession was us passing the ball around like a hot potato until one of them decided to jack up a shot. Unfortunately that doesn't work well when you're having a poor shooting night.
I've counted four times since last season (Syracuse, ND, NCState and now Syracuse again) where we had a chance to go up BIG at the half (a silent run) as Jeffe Capel calls it and we didn't. We could have created a huge lead that would have made Syracuse take more low % shots and we could stall the clock and win by 4-5 points.
Grayson was just not good tonight. From his shooting to his handling on the fast breaks, man he was rough tonight.
Grayson was just not good tonight. From his shooting to his handling on the fast breaks, man he was rough tonight.
None of the above. 5 blown transitions in the first half lost the game. Game would have been over at half
You'd pick uncheat over KU if you were a post player? There's more basketball outside the state my friend.
Just a comparison between the two schools here, that's all. If Duke and Tar Holes wanted you, and you were a post player, which school would you choose between the 2?
I know it's a team loss, but I felt like Grayson killed us with his poor decision making on the fast breaks during the first half. Syracuse just made more winning plays the last few minutes of the game than we did.
I've always trusted K, but I like many others don't understand the lack of minutes from Giles and especially Bolden. The bigs have played good lately and last night Frank and Grayson were stinking it up. It was a game where we definitely could have played a traditional lineup.
I think you guys have the negatives nailed. Exactly right on many of your points. I'd add my surprise at Amile getting out-rebounded by Syracuse. He got almost zero fifty-fifty rebounds. I think he must still be hurting.
On the positive side, I thought offensively, we did a good job in the first half of attacking the zone. I like Luke at the elbow. He does good work there - he just shot short on a number of 12-13 footers. If those had gone in...
I thought Tatum showed even more big leaps in his decision making in the half court offense. Only took one or two forced shots, made some good passes. I really like his progress.
And Amile and his free throw shooting? That was great. We need him to not be a liability at the line and last night he was an asset at the line. Nice to see.
We need to move past those negatives and build on the positives. Still plenty of games to be played this season.
On the positive side, I thought offensively, we did a good job in the first half of attacking the zone. I like Luke at the elbow. He does good work there - he just shot short on a number of 12-13 footers. If those had gone in...
I thought Tatum showed even more big leaps in his decision making in the half court offense. Only took one or two forced shots, made some good passes. I really like his progress.
And Amile and his free throw shooting? That was great. We need him to not be a liability at the line and last night he was an asset at the line. Nice to see.
We need to move past those negatives and build on the positives. Still plenty of games to be played this season.
Poor offensive execution (39% FG, 30% 3PT) and poor defense (53% FG, 54% 3PT). Some of that was good and bad luck respectively. I didn't have a problem with Bolden on the bench. Amile didn't look 100%. I think you can only play 2 bigs against the zone if one is capable of being the distributor at the high post. A 100% Amile could do that, but I wouldn't trust Bolden or Giles there. That meant Kennard and/or Tatum had to fill that role, 3 other guards spreading the court, and one of Amile/Giles at the 5, leaving no place for Bolden in the rotation.
My biggest lament was on our last offensive possession. I think it was more important to score than it was to take the shot clock down to 0. It is too hard to count on a good shot at the end of the clock against a zone. We needed more ball movement earlier so Kennard didn't end up in that position. Yes, we could have done a lot more along the way (keeping the ball moving through tatum, executing on the break, etc.) I also didn't have a problem with Grayson's 3 attempt. He had space, and it would have been the dagger.
My biggest lament was on our last offensive possession. I think it was more important to score than it was to take the shot clock down to 0. It is too hard to count on a good shot at the end of the clock against a zone. We needed more ball movement earlier so Kennard didn't end up in that position. Yes, we could have done a lot more along the way (keeping the ball moving through tatum, executing on the break, etc.) I also didn't have a problem with Grayson's 3 attempt. He had space, and it would have been the dagger.
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