Patrick Tape
- Thread starter LetsGoDuke83
- Start date
I'm going to miss him a ton for his offense. I think you could easily make a case he's the best big Duke has had in the one and done era. I guess second to Zion if you consider him a big.
I still think it's Jahlil. He was the ACC POY....but I also understand his name has lost some of its luster because he hasn't had a ton of success in the NBA. He was downright filthy during that 2015 campaign.
You're right. For some reason I didn't even think of him. More so was comparing him to Carter and Bags. I think Vernon over Carter. Bags had the athletic advantage, but Vernon was much more powerful and difficult to keep away from the rim.
Jahlil, Carter and Bag combined could not equal Big Vern's defense ability.
Vern tenure was reminiscent of Elton Brand.
Vern tenure was reminiscent of Elton Brand.
Have to disagree with you. If you could call a top 10 nba pick under appreciated, Carter is that guy. That kid was a stud.
No disrespect to Vern, because I liked him, but I don’t see the comparison to Brand.
Elton was a beast.
Carter was definitely a better defender than Vernon. You put carter on this team in place of Vernon and he does the same exact thing but he had better conditioning and than Vernon. So stats would’ve been better
Carter was overshadowed by Bag. Carter's draft was also different. Interesting how three years of basketball looks completely different now, draft wise.
If I'm not mistaken, that Duke team played a bunch of zone? I thought Carter was a decent defender. His defense is suffering a bit in Chicago.
Last edited:
They played zone because their rotations were terrible and Bagley didn’t play defense. Carter was a really good shot blocker. Vernon was ok on defense.
Carter was so underrated on that team '18 because of all the attention Bagley got. And....it was a CHARGE. Damn, between Grayson's shot and that BS call, the '18 Kansas elite eight game is a hundred times worse than the Michigan State game.
Probably the maddest I have ever gotten over a loss. And I have overreacted to a few losses. That one ended up pushing me over the edge for a moment or six. I couldn't believe how bad the call was. Grayson's shot in regulation though, damn. How that one didn't roll in I will never know. Can't imagine how many times that young fella has seen it, asked about it, or has thought about it. A great young man who deserved another run at a championship. He was inches from taking his team to a final four. Michigan State hurt too, but I like Izzo as a coach, so it hurt a little less. Self I can't stand and I despise Kansas.
That’s one call I’m 100% confident the first time the ref saw the replay he was like “oops, I totally screwed that one up.”
I think had last years team gotten by MSU, we were cutting down the nets, no doubt about it. In 2018, had we gotten by Kansas, not sure we would have won the title. Villanova beat Kansas by 20 the following game in the final four, it was a route, obviously we would have played Villanova much tougher. Not sure our zone would have worked though against an elite shooting team like they were. Honestly it was very refreshing to watch Kansas get destroyed though, had they won the title it would have stung forever.
The pain of the Kansas loss to me was MUCH worse though than MSU because we got screwed against Kansas, no way around it. The stupid block call should have never happened, that game should have never even gone to OT. I have that game right there with 99 UCONN, 02 IU, and 04 UCONN as far as how mad I was after.
The pain of the Kansas loss to me was MUCH worse though than MSU because we got screwed against Kansas, no way around it. The stupid block call should have never happened, that game should have never even gone to OT. I have that game right there with 99 UCONN, 02 IU, and 04 UCONN as far as how mad I was after.
Yeah, the worst defeat of all time for me is the '04 UCONN final four game. That one crushed me. We executed so poorly down the stretch and of course the 85 people that fouled out in the last 4 minutes helped UCONN. I believe that's the only time I have seen K rip officials in the postgame and for good reason.
To me the MSU game was worse because we didn't get the ball to Zion. And then all we had to do was make 2 foul shots. I watched the game in a bar with my dad. I just sat there stunned at the end while the whole bar started clapping. I wanted to cry.
Why the ball did not go to Zion baffles me. Old - School coaches use the term, 'Go to the Well until you run dry'. Zion in the last 5 minutes should've gotten the first touch. The MSU game was not the time to share the ball.
I mean i guess the play worked because RJ got to the line. But I think if Zion got to the line he would have made at least one. Or just scored.
But didn't Zion defer on a few different occasions down the stretch against MSU?
I agree the ball should have been in his hands, by the way.
I agree the ball should have been in his hands, by the way.
When I was a kid a had a poster on my wall. it was a turtle saying "my mind's made up don't confuse me with the facts."
Yes, Zion did refer. That's where the coaching staff tells the other four players, 'Give the ball back to him'.
What made that kid special for Duke last year, is the 'Grant Hill Attitude of 94'. Zion had more talent, but he put his team on his back down the stretch.
The thing that burns me the most about the MSU game was the deliberate holding of Zions shirt on multiple occasions with zero calls. Several directly led to turnovers and one a run out and 1.
Thank me for doing the dirty work here.
Starting with RJ at the line with 4:53 to go here are the following possessions (he hits 1-2 we are up 59-58)
-Cassius Winston hits a old man shot with Tre draped all over him puts MSU up 1.
Next Duke Possession- RJ tries a lob into Zion who is clearly held as somehow he can’t jump, i rewound this, it’s as clear as day a hold.
this leads to a MSU fastbreak where Tillman takes three full steps and javin weakly fouls him and gets posterized. Tillman makes and it’s 63-59.
With 3:52 Cam dishes to Jav for a lay in. 63-61. Took about ten seconds total.
MSU- turnover with 3:32
Duke- Tre tried to force it into Zion who’s double teamed and it’s a turnover
MSU throws up a prayer with 2:52, Zion rebound
Duke- two man game RJ-Zion-RJ hits a 3 with 2:28 to go and Duke is up 64-63. Timeout, Grant Hill- “Duke is staying in this game because of the stellar play of RJ”
MSU- misses shot in the lane, rebound by Jav. 2min left
Duke- same play as above, RJ-Zion two man game, this time Zion takes it to the lane for a bucket and now up 3 with 1:40 to go- 66-63
MSU- time out with 1:33, Duke on a 7-0 run. With 1:15 Cassius drives in throws up a lob and it’s answered now it’s 66-65.
Duke- Tre immediately gives to RJ, same play as the last two times down. To Zion, has nothing, back to RJ with 10 on the clock, goes left into the lane, nothing.
MSU- 43.6 seconds left down one calls time out. We all remember the miscommunication here and Goins who hit one shot all game nailed a 3 over Zion with 34 seconds left and they’re up 2.
Duke- Zion has the ball with 18 ticks left, dribbles around, throws to RJ who with 13.5 tries a 3 (nothing else there), with 8 seconds ball goes out of bounds and we get the call after a long review. In bounds nothing there ball out in the corner to RJ , drives and fouled. With 5.2 he makes one.
with the exception of the last play where MSU covered it perfectly, Zion either touched the ball or it was turned over trying to get to him on nearly every single possession. Keep in mind duke also only had 3 fouls, so we couldn’t even get the ball back by fouling. Secondly we had double digit MORE turnovers than they did. This narrative that Zion didn’t get the ball the last five minutes is revisionist history.
the fact i had to go back and rewatch this hell is pathetic.
Here is what I dont get. With the obvious, deliberate, non basketball play hold of Zion, why not ask for a review?! With the run out and 1, there was a dead ball. A review would have given Duke 2 shots and the ball. Why not ask? It wasn't the first time, so the coaches and players should have been ready for it.
Thanks for rewatching, you are tough, there is no way I could put myself through that hell.
The tournament will always be a guards game, and this is just another reason. We made an effort to get the ball to Zion, but MSU didn’t allow it. They were a strong defensive team with a perfect game plan (and a lot of obvious holding). We needed RJ to be Tyus Jones, he did alright, but didn’t come through.
RJ actually had a great game but all anyone will remember is he missed the first of the two FTs. It’s unfortunate.
Haha. I’ve tried forgetting that game, but after reading your breakdown on the last few minutes of the game, I went and looked at our stats. The frustrating part to me is how Tre was 8-14 against VT, then in this game, he goes 2-5. We needed someone to step up. We lost because no one else did.
I will never understand how Duke could ever be mainly a 2 man show.
Yeah we lost by one and we could point to a million different things...the Zion should have the ball wasn't one of them. Tre should have had it more. Cam maybe more plays run for him. Finding ways for us to not turn the damn ball over 18 times to their 7 or so. Making more FTs. You name it. So frustrating bc we were clearly better. Such a shame.
Don’t think any of us will forget that 2019 loss. We were the clear cut favorite with a transcendent superstar. Coach K was right when he said that team was worthy of the final 4. With how dominant we looked early in the season and how much talent we had on the roster, that elite eight loss is a tough pill to swallow. With how much hype we got throughout that season, people would have been talking about that team for years to come if they were able to cut down the nets.
To be honest, that team was two separate teams. One team that was healthy and had a Cam playing at or near his potential. That team was virtually unbeatable. That is the team that DESTROYED Kentucky. The other team was missing key players due to injury and or had a Cam that wasnt a star. Wasnt playing anywhere near the level he was capable of. Tha team did have to rely on 2 guys.
If Cam came back we would have been unbeatable this past year. Then the season ending would have been even more heartbreaking. I was rooting for us to win but this did not seem like our year this year honestly. If this virus happened last year with Zion, can you imagine?
I agree to a large extent with your premise, i think folks fail to realize how much it stalled our growth to have Zion go out in that first unc game.
Similar threads
