Official Gameday thread- duke vs nc state

[K-oach Q]

Actually the more I’ve thought about it today…I think it’s a pretty terrible look that Lively the supposed number 1 High School player can’t average two points a game…..I mean one rebound and put back should do at least that at seven feet.

If I was a coach at any other school recruiting against Scheyer I would play this out to top recruits insufferably.

 

[christophero]

If scouts get more looks at games like Wake and NC State our guy's draft stock is going to plummet. Even Baldwin scored 14 a game last year and he was injured. Smaller school, but still. And he nearly fell out of the first round.
Regarding this year, the worry at the start was that guys had never played together and we had to mesh as a team. In our losses we have looked like a bunch of new guys, not a team.

 

[JimboSlice00]

Let’s get crazy and say lively, proctor, Mitchell are back with Roach, young, and Blakes, schutt, reeves…..do any of the incoming guys go elsewhere?

I think we would for sure lose most of the class if all of that happened. These 5 stars coming in thinking they will be major parts to a team, and history tells us Duke typically gives them first shot at those minutes. With what we have seen from this very weak '22 class it sure as sh*t be great to get some guys back.

Having said that, Foster and Mackenzie have looked like they would fit the mold of our typical stud one and done so I wouldn't be happy in losing either of them.

 

[DukeJim99]

Let’s get crazy and say lively, proctor, Mitchell are back with Roach, young, and Blakes, schutt, reeves…..do any of the incoming guys go elsewhere?

It's still very early, but most mock drafts I'm seeing have Lively going in the top 20. Some have Proctor at end of first round, others don't have him in the draft at all. Flip and Whitehead seem like clear first round selections and thus certainly gone. I think we may have a fourth year Jeremy Roach as he's not on any mock draft boards I've seen, although I have seen him make the bottom of some "top 100 NBA prospects" lists.

Young has eligibility to play another year? That's great, I somehow hadn't realized that. He's an important piece.

So, I'm guessing Flip, Whitehead, and Lively are definitely gone. Proctor, Mitchell, Roach.... if one of them has a breakout second half of the season they could be gone as well but if the draft was today I'd guess they're all coming back for another year.

Would be a different Duke team than we are used to if Proctor, Mitchell, Roach, Young, and Blakes all come back.

Would seem we'd have a logjam at power forward with Mitchell and three top 25 PF recruits coming in. But I'm assuming we just play two PFs and no Cs for most of the time. And our incoming freshman guards would be fighting for playing time as well with Roach, Proctor, and Blakes all in the lineup.

 

[christophero]

Mitchell seems like this year's Keels. Probably could come back; but shows just enough to get drafted. I really like his game; would love to have a second year Mitchell. You could make cases for Proctor, Flip and Mitchell coming back. No way Lively stays in the top 20 unless we see improvement. But someone will draft Lively based on upside. Our guys (Not Roach or Schutt or Blakes) all have enough to go in the second round at worst; will that make them go? If we have a subpar year do our guys want to come back and fix it or just go anyway?

 

[Devilinside]

I agree with most of what you said here, but take issue with the bolded part. The issue is Roach isn't playing as well as we'd want from a junior point guard who has two seasons of starting under his belt. If he was noticeably improved from last year, I don't think you'd be questioning our back court like this.
But Scheyer didn't fail to recruit capable guards. He got Proctor to reclass. He got Grandison. And he already had Roach and Blakes. Between those four, plus Schutt getting some occasional minutes, our backcourt *should* be fine. But they're all under-perfoming. That isn't a failure to recruit.

I said one additional point guard, which is a fact. Grandison is not now, and never has been, a point guard. I do not know what Proctor is, but I strongly doubt he was running the Australian team from the point guard position. So, what we are left with is two supposedly shooting guards who cannot shoot or create for others.

OFC

 

[Fourteen44]

I said one additional point guard, which is a fact. Grandison is not now, and never has been, a point guard. I do not know what Proctor is, but I strongly doubt he was running the Australian team from the point guard position. So, what we are left with is two supposedly shooting guards who cannot shoot or create for others.

OFC

Just a point of clarification - Proctor was the primary handler for most of his teams in AUS, but the lack of physical style there is catching up with him now, here….

 

[christophero]

Kenpom predicting a 12-8 record for Duke in the ACC. That would put us at 21-12.(DBR) That is definitely the bubble. 11-9 would be 20-13, probably the wrong side of the bubble.

 

[christophero]

Disappointing so far but busts seems a little harsh and premature.

 

[kingbluedevil]

Proctor and Lively are busts. Time to move on from them. Wish them well but it’s just not happening. They might produce as juniors or seniors but no time soon

I wouldn't give up on them yet. Lively can move for a 7' and we have enough players to play more pressure defense. I would have full court press at the ten minute mark last night to make something happen. If we lose we at least Got a good workout in. To not try anything different was not a good look last night

 

[KDSTONE]

Disappointing so far but busts seems a little harsh and premature.

How on Earth could the # 1 ranked recruit in America be any less impressive? How much time and effort was spent recruiting these guys when we could have thrown a rock in the transfer portal and hit someone that could shoot? Weren’t you the one who said he needed to drink a bunch of milkshakes cus he’s not ready for “big boy” basketball. If he’s not ready to contribute his fresh year he shouldn’t be ranked that high.

 

[christophero]

He certainly needs to get stronger, him and Proctor. But calling them a bust is a little personal. And the season isn't over yet. Clearly they are not John Wall and AD, but they could still improve. I do think they should both come off the bench.

 

[kingbluedevil]

That's where our assistant coaches got to work with him he can improve with the work. May not see it this year. He needs some go to shot around the basket

 

[KDSTONE]

He certainly needs to get stronger, him and Proctor. But calling them a bust is a little personal. And the season isn't over yet. Clearly they are not John Wall and AD, but they could still improve. I do think they should both come off the bench.

I guess we just disagree on the definition of bust. I don’t see the point of recruiting OADs who aren’t good enough to start. If he stays next year maybe he’ll have learned how to shoot by then but I figured that would have happened already. As for Proctor he wasn’t ready for Nc St. Hell be dominated by Wong and the Heels

 

[christophero]

I agree with what you're saying, and I've been guilty of going over the line when venting. But bust is a term you'd hear RR use about us, and kind of implies that there is no hope for improvement, that a guy is just no good. Do we need more from them as likely OADs? Hell yeah. I was home sick today with a cold so I probably posted too much ha.

 

[Fourteen44]

The talent is there, but can Jon get it out of them? For once I want to see this team play pissed, angry at the world.

I doubt Jeremy will be healthy by year end so they need to work around it as best as possible. Someone said it yesterday but damn I wish keels or Wendell came back…..

 

[sheyduke]

Drink

My thoughts exactly

 

[sheyduke]

Roach won’t return IMO. He’ll either try the league or transfer .
Mitchell is probably where I’d lay my money at returning with Blakes, Schutt and Reeves.
If he talks young into coming back with atleast Mitchell returning that gives Duke leadership and Foster is NBA pg ready .
I would like to see Flip return as his stock won’t change but doubt he does .

 

[Liftee]

I'm still hoping that Proctor raises his game to show why he played PG on the Australian team. He's still playing passively which is a big disappointment to me. At this rate if he leaves, it will be to go back to Australia.

 

[DukeJim99]

I said one additional point guard, which is a fact. Grandison is not now, and never has been, a point guard. I do not know what Proctor is, but I strongly doubt he was running the Australian team from the point guard position. So, what we are left with is two supposedly shooting guards who cannot shoot or create for others.

OFC

Roach, Blakes, and Proctor all came to Duke as point guards.

 

[AlanInNJ]

I’m still in the camp that says it has to start with our guards. If Roach is not 100% then we need an alternate plan. Without solid guard play we aren’t going anywhere.

I think a whole lotta faith was put into a junior Roach being the driving force on this team, to play like he did at the end of last year, shoot well, drive and distribute, and to take a lot of pressure off the freshmen. That just has not developed, could be injured or maybe just too much pressure.

I am not wearing the blue colored glasses but there still is time to get on track and be a solid team at the top third of the ACC and make the tourney as a 4-5 seed. No easy path by any means, but I think that’s where we end up deservedly so.

 

[germantondevil]

I certainly hope that we can get into the tourney as a 4-5 seed. We have to improve drastically to make that happen. I really believe that we will turn things around and compete if nothing more than just pride for each other on the team. But some of my confidence is with Coach K in the back of my mind. We really dont know how Coach Scheyer will respond to this. Only time will tell. Lets go Duke..

 

[KDSTONE]

I agree with what you're saying, and I've been guilty of going over the line when venting. But bust is a term you'd hear RR use about us, and kind of implies that there is no hope for improvement, that a guy is just no good. Do we need more from them as likely OADs? Hell yeah. I was home sick today with a cold so I probably posted too much ha.

If they’re not gonna get tough love from their coaches

Actually the more I’ve thought about it today…I think it’s a pretty terrible look that Lively the supposed number 1 High School player can’t average two points a game…..I mean one rebound and put back should do at least that at seven feet.

If I was a coach at any other school recruiting against Scheyer I would play this out to top recruits insufferably.

Don’t call him a bust though. That’s crossing the line apparently

 

[KDSTONE]

I certainly hope that we can get into the tourney as a 4-5 seed. We have to improve drastically to make that happen. I really believe that we will turn things around and compete if nothing more than just pride for each other on the team. But some of my confidence is with Coach K in the back of my mind. We really dont know how Coach Scheyer will respond to this. Only time will tell. Lets go Duke..

We were kind of saying the same thing after the Wake game. How will they respond? And they beat a terrible FSU team but then lay the biggest egg imaginable. It’s a long season. Hope Jon figured it out. The game Sat prob the biggest so far along with Wake. Nc St was gonna be a loss with this team. Bc is actually winnable for a mid tier Acc team Mid tier may be optimistic but we’ll see how it plays out

 

[KDSTONE]

I’m still in the camp that says it has to start with our guards. If Roach is not 100% then we need an alternate plan. Without solid guard play we aren’t going anywhere.

I think a whole lotta faith was put into a junior Roach being the driving force on this team, to play like he did at the end of last year, shoot well, drive and distribute, and to take a lot of pressure off the freshmen. That just has not developed, could be injured or maybe just too much pressure.

I am not wearing the blue colored glasses but there still is time to get on track and be a solid team at the top third of the ACC and make the tourney as a 4-5 seed. No easy path by any means, but I think that’s where we end up deservedly so.

I think it’s the injury. He clearly has lost quickness and vertical so it’s high time to play Blakes and Shutt more. Roach is not stopping anyone in his current state. How much worse could Shutt be on D?

 

[christophero]

That was my issue as well. The Wake game was our buzzsaw, wake up game. And then we came out flat, no awful against NC State. It was 20-2. I think Blakes and Young should start. Whitehead at the 2. Give Roach a few minutes and see how he does. He got benched last year and he kind of is making the same mistakes this year. Could be due to injury.

 

[dukesince91]

I’m tired of the injury excuse for Roach. If he’s injured, sit him and roll with Blakes. These players need Jon to decide who his starters are and to define everyone’s role. The longer this takes place the longer it takes for this team to gel and then the greater the chance he loses this team. Hell, I never know what lineup to expect. Why start Lively when he plays less than 15 minutes (just my guess)?

 

[christophero]

I think Young has earned the right to start. Lively could be more effective coming off the bench. Start Blakes as well. Guys just need to buy in for the good on the team. Get back to good defense and moving the ball on offense.

 

[sheyduke]

Roach, Blakes, and Proctor all came to Duke as point guards.

Negative . Roach wasn’t a pg . He was a scoring guard, Blakes was known more as a combo as well as Proctor . Just because their scouting report said pg you got to read past it . Not one was ever a pure pg .

 

[sheyduke]

I think Young has earned the right to start. Lively could be more effective coming off the bench. Start Blakes as well. Guys just need to buy in for the good on the team. Get back to good defense and moving the ball on offense.

I will second this . No one has earned it more. And we can forget about practice he is showing up in games with heart .

 

[christophero]

Young, Flip, Mitchell, Whitehead and Blakes are our best 5 right now. I don't care about player's future or upside. Best guy plays. Roach, Proctor and Lively can get minutes off the bench.

 

[Fourteen44]

Roach was primarily a scoring PG for Paul VI and his AAU program. Hes definitely more of a pg than sg, and I wouldn’t classify him as a combo guard…..

 

[sheyduke]

Roach was primarily a scoring PG for Paul VI and his AAU program. Hes definitely more of a pg than sg, and I wouldn’t classify him as a combo guard…..

No you are right. He’s a scoring guard like I mentioned. Wouldn’t really put him as a pure pg . A pure pg can dish out assist along with scoring . Nothing wrong with being a scoring guard you just have to learn when the pass is warranted. There was a reason Moore played a lot at pg and started the offense .

 

[kingbluedevil]

I don't have a problem with Young and Blake's starting but we are not going far without our Freshmen getting better. We got to start making shots because like in the state game when guards got in the lane they had no chance. What is our upside with Young and Blake's?

 

[KDSTONE]

I don't have a problem with Young and Blake's starting but we are not going far without our Freshmen getting better. We got to start making shots because like in the state game when guards got in the lane they had no chance. What is our upside with Young and Blake's?

Nit

 

[dukesince91]

I don't have a problem with Young and Blake's starting but we are not going far without our Freshmen getting better. We got to start making shots because like in the state game when guards got in the lane they had no chance. What is our upside with Young and Blake's?

Young gives us consistency. His defense is susceptible against athletic bigs, but he can score which we haven’t had much lately. Blakes just needs some confidence, I think he’s close. At least he plays defense.

 

[christophero]

I agree our upside is limited with Young and Blakes. But we need wins, and cannot keep waiting on Lively and Proctor. Use them strategically, and maybe they will start being more effective. I think this team can make the tournament. We also need more out of Flip and Mitchell and Grandison. Everyone needs to step it up.

 

[kingbluedevil]

I agree our upside is limited with Young and Blakes. But we need wins, and cannot keep waiting on Lively and Proctor. Use them strategically, and maybe they will start being more effective. I think this team can make the tournament. We also need more out of Flip and Mitchell and Grandison. Everyone needs to step it up.

I agree we have to play Lively and Proctor enough hoping the light comes on. We may have to play small ball if our bigs can't score or defend. I think it's a great opportunity for Scheyer to show he has hands on the wheel and a plan.

 

[KDSTONE]

I agree we have to play Lively and Proctor enough hoping the light comes on. We may have to play small ball if our bigs can't score or defend. I think it's a great opportunity for Scheyer to show he has hands on the wheel and a plan.

Lol. He has the 1 recruiting class in the country. I don’t think barely making the tourn will impress anyone

 

[kingbluedevil]

I don't see how these #1 recruits shoot this bad. I see division 2 and 3s every week making it from everywhere. Highschool must use smaller ball. Lol