Just some thoughts

[sheyduke]

First , who is the pg on this team ? Roach, Proctor, Blakes?
I have not seen no one but Young step up as a leader and it says something when two of the opposing players have one less point at one portion of the game snd more assist then the whole team?

What exactly has Lively done to start?
He does not rebound or score but might block a couple shots.

Grandison does nothing that I do not see Schutt capable of doing . At this point I’m back on my nagging on him as a fifth year senior at 24 .

What’s the offense ? ISO? One on one ? Because I think everyone agrees, it has not improved any .

Is the defense regressing ? I think so .

What are the coaches doing ? Seat warming ? I saw no fire from any one ! That includes the players .

I say , IMO and I’m no coach at all. Some tough love needs to be given or this team could really go down hill quick .
Just my opinion. What’s yours ?

 

[denverexpat]

I loved Duke BB for the defensive intensity, the 100% commitment to each other and on every possession on both ends of the floor..you could tell they wanted to win and would play hard every game. I also loved it because of Coach K's passion and belief in the program. Unfortunately, those attributes began to wane in the last few years of K's tenure, and so far they are absent from Coach S's. We have lost our identity and toughness that were the standards at Duke. Other teams still bring their best to play the name on our shirt, it just seems we've lost what it means to pull on that shirt.

 

[Duke Blu]

Gotta get Schutt more playing time. Has the purist looking shot IMO. Gotta light a fire under Lively. You dont have to be an offensive player with his talent to be successful. Has to be a game changing rim protector, rebounder, and sprint the floor every opportunity. Gotta get Roach healthy. Jon has to shake things up and its time to rip guys a new one. It is UNACCEPTABLE to be thoroughly outplayed in that manner with that uniform on.

 

[9dukejames]

Well, I thought before the season started that there would be head scratching losses, but that Duke had a high ceiling. I am not sure how much longer that I can keep that light at the end of the tunnel scenario in my head going. I will say this though, the only freshman that I see as physically ready for the pros is Whitehead. Now I understand others may go but this bunch needs to mature for another year or so before even being reliable at this level let alone the NBA.

 

[sheyduke]

At the moment , none of them are ready period . Flips stock will never change he will stay in the same range .
Mitchell. His handles and offense needs work and his rebounding .
Lively- His potential is fading badly . Only seven footer I’ve seen in a while can not rebound or produce offensively. I can’t even say at the moment he’s on a Mark Willams trajectory.
Proctor- needs to stay another year period .
Whitehead is gone .

 

[hart2chesson]

At the moment , none of them are ready period . Flips stock will never change he will stay in the same range .
Mitchell. His handles and offense needs work and his rebounding .
Lively- His potential is fading badly . Only seven footer I’ve seen in a while can not rebound or produce offensively. I can’t even say at the moment he’s on a Mark Willams trajectory.
Proctor- needs to stay another year period .
Whitehead is gone .

Plus of the guys you noted above, or nobody on this team period is near a Paulo level. He was good enough to iso and drive to the hoop, and could shoot just well enough (AJ could too) to prevent a total sagging by the defense. Also, Mark was way better INSIDE than any of the freshman and could demand and get the ball.

It's the IDENTICAL OFFENSE we ran last year (Is K influencing this?), and Duke doesn't have the personnel to run it. OFC

 

[Mac9192]

Plus of the guys you noted above, or nobody on this team period is near a Paulo level. He was good enough to iso and drive to the hoop, and could shoot just well enough (AJ could too) to prevent a total sagging by the defense. Also, Mark was way better INSIDE than any of the freshman and could demand and get the ball.

It's the IDENTICAL OFFENSE we ran last year (Is K influencing this?), and Duke doesn't have the personnel to run it. OFC

Good post.
Dawkins, Amaker, Hurley, Hill (Thomas & Grant), Avery, J Williams, Duhon, Tyus. All really good guards that led us to at least the Championship game. Last season, Roach played really well in the tournament.

Good guard play also opens it up for others. Right now, we don't have that.

 

[DanTheDukeFan1982]

If Jeremy Roach is bad or not 100% the rest of the year then nothing else matters, this team will be bad. What is odd is I noticed last night that he wasn’t handling the ball up the court, he would give it off and then go run in the corner.

I’m at the point where Lively should be a guy who only plays when our defense is getting dominated inside. That’s about all he is good for, granted: he’s elite at altering shots around the rim.

The offense sucks, and the offense always sucks at the beginning of games. For the life of me I don’t know why we aren’t starting with Flip at the 5 and Mitchell at the 4. Mitchell definitely has his flaws, but he consistently seems like the only Blue Devil out there who gives a shit.

 

[duhondukie]

Agree with all the thoughts.
Player roles need to be defined and it is clear watching that Scheyer has not done that with this team.
In my opinion that is one of the things K did really well.

 

[Liftee]

Not impressed with the intensity of effort last night except for Mitchell and Young, and once again we can't go to a motion offense when things get stagnant on offense. How many times can a team drive into a crowded middle and think they aren't going to lose the ball? They weren't getting the call, time to do something different.

I'd like to see Scheyer really light into this team. They are at risk to fall into the Jalen Johnson/Steward mode where the teams seems to not care and then everyone leaves.

 

[Devilinside]

As I stated on another thread, it is difficult, if not impossible, to succeed without consistent and reliable guard play. Roach was 0 for 8 last night with only one assist. Proctor and Blakes were non-factors. Scheyer's leadership so far appears to be uninspiring. This is a very careless team. I see only signs of regression, not improvement. All of which scares me for the success of our mens program. As the above threads indicate, we have a lot to be worried about.

OFC

 

[christophero]

Thus far we more resemble the team of 2 years ago than last year. Roach and Proctor are not going to match up well against many ACC teams. Maybe move Whitehead to the 2 and start Young. Lively has had his chances. He can still play but maybe limit his minutes. We need to toughen up in a hurry. We move the ball much better at home. We need to be more focused and disciplined on the road. Not sure Schutt is the answer though.

 

[Liftee]

I want to make it clear, this is a team with problems and I don't think Coach K, or John Wooden, would be able to make them look like a bunch of Zions and Paolos. Not saying Scheyer is doing as well as K would, but he personally didn't drive into the lane 10 times and get blocked 10 times last night.

 

[Liftee]

Oh and any game reffed by TV Teddy is going to be annoying and ragged. The guy is a clown.

 

[christophero]

You can't blame the refs when you lose by 24 haha. As for the guards, last year we had Moore and Keels, 2 guys who got drafted. And Banchero and Williams. We were tougher, and even that team had issues before going on a nice run. Even Whitehead doesn't seem like a slam dunk NBA guy to me. He's shown flashes, and he's been out. But if he played for State and was a top 50 guy we'd say he is a guy who would be really good next year. I'd be fine with taking some lumps if we could be elite next year and get back Roach, Proctor, Flip and Mitchell. But another mass exodus will leave me very discouraged.

 

[K-oach Q]

I want to see Filip at the five position. He can play on the perimeter and pull out the other teams big…that is a matchup nightmare.

We could potentially play five out with driving lanes and problems everywhere on the offensive side.

Roach
Proctor
Mitchell
Whitehead
Filip

Sub in Grandison, Blakes, and Young or Lively….I would sub in Young. You could also go two bigs for a bit….tons of sub package combinations….tons…keep three shooters on the floor minimum….

 

[christophero]

At least we don't have a 10 day layoff. BC in 2 days. They are going to be chomping at the bit playing us we better be ready.

 

[Mac9192]

We will go as our guard play goes. Is Roach still hampered with his toe? He's been awful. I had high hopes for Proctor, liked the way he looked out there, but he looks lost right now. The kid has no confidence in shooting the ball. Blakes gives everything he's got, but it comes with limitations. And it showed last night. I don't really know about Schutt. I see peoples opinion on his shooting, just not sure if he can really help.

Lively has shown nothing offensively, and he was the top rated kid. He's a real head scratcher. I'm not trying to be mean, but he looks closer to Chase Jeter than Mark Williams. Flip, on a good team, would make a solid 3rd/4th option. We are begging for 18 & 10 out of him every game. I just don't see that out of him. Whitehead still looks nowhere near ready to be a major contributor. Mitchell, to be somewhat similar in comparing to Flip, would make a good 6th or 7th man. He starts for us.

I'm still optimistic, there's still time, but, if we don't get it together soon, we may be looking from the outside on making the tournament.

 

[christophero]

Lively reminded me a lot of Jeter early on, but I didn't want to get ridiculed for pointing it out. He's more Bolden/Jeter than Williams thus far. No doubt he will be a stud in a few years but the problem is it won't be for Duke.

 

[sheyduke]

Mitchell needs to be more intense going to the basket it is his strength and when he gets that bull dog mentality going he can not be stopped.
I agree that Lively should not start let him come on with Young and let Mitchell move to the four and Whitehead at the three. It’s time for a little baptism by fire ! What Duke is doing is simply not working even in wins the offense still looks lost .

 

[jamsession3]

Unfortunately, we need to accept 'at this time' no one on the team is a Dominant individual player. This must be a team effort. No one stands out. I would've considered chemistry being an issue at the beginning of the season, but the reality is the lack High Level Tier 1 Basketball Skills. It's not a horrible problem. This team just requires development. Also, this team is playing other teams with 5th/6th year juniors and seniors. Grandison was on the low end of graduate transfers. These other guys have developed. Our team needs player and team development.

 

[denverexpat]

This roster doesnt seem to have the pieces that fit into what we want to do....maybe they are good players ( per the rankings) but together as a whole ...the sum of the parts are way less than it should be. That is on the coaches...you cannot shoehorn players into a system that dont match what you need...you need to change the system to match the talents of the players....we are currently doing the former and the results show accordingly

 

[hart2chesson]

Good post.
Dawkins, Amaker, Hurley, Hill (Thomas & Grant), Avery, J Williams, Duhon, Tyus. All really good guards that led us to at least the Championship game. Last season, Roach played really well in the tournament.

Good guard play also opens it up for others. Right now, we don't have that.

Thanks Mac. Wow those names you reeled off conjure up good memories!!! OFC

 

[Liftee]

Scheyer did play Flip at the 5 for a short time last night, kind of like a 5 out 0 in offense. Like every other combination, it didn't slow down State nor improve the offense much.

 

[BluePhil]

I want to make it clear, this is a team with problems and I don't think Coach K, or John Wooden, would be able to make them look like a bunch of Zions and Paolos. Not saying Scheyer is doing as well as K would, but he personally didn't drive into the lane 10 times and get blocked 10 times last night.

Yes, but he sat there and watched it.

 

[jamsession3]

This roster doesnt seem to have the pieces that fit into what we want to do....maybe they are good players ( per the rankings) but together as a whole ...the sum of the parts are way less than it should be. That is on the coaches...you cannot shoehorn players into a system that dont match what you need...you need to change the system to match the talents of the players....we are currently doing the former and the results show accordingly

This is an excellent point. Or need to open the classroom of basketball up and teach the system. The development will allow them to become better players.

 

[JimboSlice00]

You have to think after a whipping like that and on a quick turnaround, we are ready to go...right? Monumental game we need to win on Saturday.

 

[BOOGIEMAN1914]

flip
mitchell
dariq
blakes
roach----if he isnt healthy right now, sit him for a bit

 

[Devilinside]

I want to make it clear, this is a team with problems and I don't think Coach K, or John Wooden, would be able to make them look like a bunch of Zions and Paolos. Not saying Scheyer is doing as well as K would, but he personally didn't drive into the lane 10 times and get blocked 10 times last night.

All of which misses the point. We have had these problems in the lane all season. Flip started the season as a human turnover machine. Moreover, well coached teams do not ever drive the lane 10 times and get blocked 10 times along with 21, yes 21, turnovers. This is especially so, given our repeated problems in the lane. I simply cannot believe that if these kids were as good as their ratings, they could not be coached to vastly improve after 8 or 9 games into the season. It is NOT on the kids. And, Further, I do not think that there is a chance on God's green earth that the team could possibly perform this bad under K. Just would not, and could not, happen.

OFC

 

[hart2chesson]

All of which misses the point. We have had these problems in the lane all season. Flip started the season as a human turnover machine. Moreover, well coached teams do not ever drive the lane 10 times and get blocked 10 times along with 21, yes 21, turnovers. This is especially so, given our repeated problems in the lane. I simply cannot believe that if these kids were as good as their ratings, they could not be coached to vastly improve after 8 or 9 games into the season. It is NOT on the kids. And, Further, I do not think that there is a chance on God's green earth that the team could possibly perform this bad under K. Just would not, and could not, happen.

OFC

The thing about K was his motivational side. When he got in that huddle and we were playing poorly, LOOK OUT!!! Clipboards, chairs, etc were fair game to be slammed!!! Anyone was fair game to be cursed out!!

The man got RESULTS!!! We came to expect it, and were spoiled in a sense. As Duke fans we knew if Duke was playing poorly, Coach K would rip the kids a new one, and Duke would step it up!!!

My whole problem or question really, is:
Does Jon command enough respect from his players to be the coach to turn around our performance in games?Can he throw the players out of the gym in practice, run 'em into the ground, etc.

Jon Scheyer is a wonderful person, but is he TOO NICE a guy to be an effective HEAD coach??

No question Jon is a genius. He even designed the phenomenal play of the missed free throw by Tre Jones to send the UNC game into overtime at Chapel Hill. We ultimately won the game of course.

However I would say he is at, or nearing a crossroads in his still young coaching career. Jon is going to have to show some "tough love" to his team(s), or he may become simply a really top career assistant coach.

Tomorrow at BC should tell us something, a game I have now circled with a big black sharpie. The Wake game was cause for concern, but until the State @$$ whipping I still had BC penciled in as a win. No more.

OFC

 

[sheyduke]

K’s motivational skills disappeared especially the two Covid years . I always said Jalen Johnson was K’s final straw with the changing of the game . Players don’t listen . Now you have agents, NIL that all play into a players mindset .
K is gone . It’s time to move on from him . He’s not coming back to coach . And just like he told Scheyer ,” he has to find his own path his own style do things his way !”to many of you live in the past .
IMO, Duke has become no different then Over time elite or the g league ignite team . Those wanting to get away from OAD you can forget it and the one thing Scheyer is doing very different then K, is showing he’ll use the bench hoping it shows with multi year recruits to mix in with OAD .

 

[hart2chesson]

K’s motivational skills disappeared especially the two Covid years . I always said Jalen Johnson was K’s final straw with the changing of the game . Players don’t listen . Now you have agents, NIL that all play into a players mindset .
K is gone . It’s time to move on from him . He’s not coming back to coach . And just like he told Scheyer ,” he has to find his own path his own style do things his way !”to many of you live in the past .
IMO, Duke has become no different then Over time elite or the g league ignite team . Those wanting to get away from OAD you can forget it and the one thing Scheyer is doing very different then K, is showing he’ll use the bench hoping it shows with multi year recruits to mix in with OAD .

Shey I agree with is: "K Is gone." However, Jon "find his own path and do things his way??" His way's not working pal. And he's strayed down the wrong "path." Was Jon even in Raleigh Wednesday nite???

Players still "listen" somewhat. Paulo said K got their attention last year with: "I'm tired of your f%%%ing faces!!!" Sure he's gone, but I am not "living in the past." I simply want to win like others on this board, and think Jon better find the right "path" pretty soon. Otherwise its hello NIT at best.

OFC

 

[Devilinside]

K’s motivational skills disappeared especially the two Covid years . I always said Jalen Johnson was K’s final straw with the changing of the game . Players don’t listen . Now you have agents, NIL that all play into a players mindset .
K is gone . It’s time to move on from him . He’s not coming back to coach . And just like he told Scheyer ,” he has to find his own path his own style do things his way !”to many of you live in the past .
IMO, Duke has become no different then Over time elite or the g league ignite team . Those wanting to get away from OAD you can forget it and the one thing Scheyer is doing very different then K, is showing he’ll use the bench hoping it shows with multi year recruits to mix in with OAD .

We know K is not coming back. My reference to K in the earlier post was in response to Lift's suggestion that the kids' abysmal performance was not the result of coaching and may have happened even if K had been the coach. So when was the last time a K team had 10 blocks in the lane and 21 turnovers? My point was that the bad play is not primarily on the kids, especially in view of the teams' failure to show improvement. Scheyer's use of the bench appears to me to be more out of necessity than designed strategy. He is still frantically searching for a reliable starting five. Once that is accomplished, he can make wiser use of the bench. Playing 9 players just to play 9 players is not the answer. I agree strongly with Hart that Jon does not appear to be having success in motivating the players.

OFC

 

[sheyduke]

K could say what ever he wanted last season. He knew it was his last . What they going to do fire him ? I remember K on the sideline many times during loses sitting in his chair with his arms crossed. We don’t know what Jon said after that beat down . No one knew what K said until the Paolo interview.
Jon can yell, cuss , pull gear, and really be stern doesn’t mean the team would respond any different .I count atleast five times Jon was looking at the bigs pleading for them to grab control on the ball and not one could do it .

 

[2DDIMOND]

The thing about K was his motivational side. When he got in that huddle and we were playing poorly, LOOK OUT!!! Clipboards, chairs, etc were fair game to be slammed!!! Anyone was fair game to be cursed out!!

The man got RESULTS!!! We came to expect it, and were spoiled in a sense. As Duke fans we knew if Duke was playing poorly, Coach K would rip the kids a new one, and Duke would step it up!!!

My whole problem or question really, is:
Does Jon command enough respect from his players to be the coach to turn around our performance in games?Can he throw the players out of the gym in practice, run 'em into the ground, etc.

Jon Scheyer is a wonderful person, but is he TOO NICE a guy to be an effective HEAD coach??

No question Jon is a genius. He even designed the phenomenal play of the missed free throw by Tre Jones to send the UNC game into overtime at Chapel Hill. We ultimately won the game of course.

However I would say he is at, or nearing a crossroads in his still young coaching career. Jon is going to have to show some "tough love" to his team(s), or he may become simply a really top career assistant coach.

Tomorrow at BC should tell us something, a game I have now circled with a big black sharpie. The Wake game was cause for concern, but until the State @$$ whipping I still had BC penciled in as a win. No more.

OFC

Tony Bennett is a helluva nice guy with a National Championship. I don’t think being a nice guy excludes you from being a good or great coach. Have some patience, he’s coached 15 games & won 11 of them, the jury is still out, & may be for a while.

 

[christophero]

I'm a little surprised coach K said that last year. He probably doesn't care, but if that got out it could be damaging. At least if he was still coaching. Kind of hard to explain that to a parent. Or maybe he's just upfront and says look I'm gonna curse at your kid. A lot.

 

[sheyduke]

I'm a little surprised coach K said that last year. He probably doesn't care, but if that got out it could be damaging. At least if he was still coaching. Kind of hard to explain that to a parent. Or maybe he's just upfront and says look I'm gonna curse at your kid. A lot.

A lot of old players have said K cusses and a lot . You should hear him on the redeem team doc. You’d be like ,” Wow!”

 

[2DDIMOND]

A lot of old players have said K cusses and a lot . You should hear him on the redeem team doc. You’d be like ,” Wow!”

Facts. When I lived in Durham, I coached both of Joe Alleva’s sons in baseball. He & I had a pretty good relationship (he got Jason Williams to sign a jersey for my nephew who was a big Duke fan) & I became privy to some pretty good info. He told me once when Duke was trailing Florida State at halftime (at home), K dropped 37 F bombs in the locker room at halftime. Apparently Joe was in there & counting. Everybody has their own style. Duke won the game btw.

 

[Mac9192]

I'm a little surprised coach K said that last year. He probably doesn't care, but if that got out it could be damaging. At least if he was still coaching. Kind of hard to explain that to a parent. Or maybe he's just upfront and says look I'm gonna curse at your kid. A lot.

On the issue with K cursing at Paolo, and the team last season, he knew who he was talking to, and what kind of team he had. They could handle it, which made him the K many fans were used to. Some of his past antics are pure gold. Like when he told JJ after the 04 loss that he wasn't championship worthy, or kicking Laettner out of practice. In that podcast with JJ, I found it very telling that K said of the oad's, he felt Tatum, Zion, and Paolo unpacked their bags.

Just my opinion, but I think there were a couple teams that K felt handcuffed with. The 17-18 team being the biggest one.

 

[christophero]

I know K cursed believe me. It's just a changing world. Like if someone recorded that on a phone. It would have been a media storm.