General recruiting info

[christophero]

I agree we need more beef next year. Lively and Flip are thin (lively more than Flip) and are not really physical players. I imagine Mark and Banchero would destroy them. So bringing in a Theo and a better Bates type is probably a must. Considering how Jon is recruiting he should be able to do it. Interesting to see if Jon plays 2 bigs, as coach K tends to prefer small ball if he is able to. If Williams returns(he probably won't but his pro stock may be dropping) that solves that problem to a degree. If Blakes sticks around he should be able to handle backup PG duties by next year. If Moore returns (maybe one in 3 chance) our 1-3 depth is perfect.

 

[sheyduke]

I agree we need more beef next year. Lively and Flip are thin (lively more than Flip) and are not really physical players. I imagine Mark and Banchero would destroy them. So bringing in a Theo and a better Bates type is probably a must. Considering how Jon is recruiting he should be able to do it. Interesting to see if Jon plays 2 bigs, as coach K tends to prefer small ball if he is able to. If Williams returns(he probably won't but his pro stock may be dropping) that solves that problem to a degree. If Blakes sticks around he should be able to handle backup PG duties by next year. If Moore returns (maybe one in 3 chance) our 1-3 depth is perfect.

I agree with all this. No one is selling flip or lively short. They are talented and it’s their upside that has them ranked high. Their potential is through the roof. That said I think we see Scheyer look at the portal . Williams will have to establish post moves to up his stock higher then what it is now.

 

[timritterus]

I actually think Flip and Lively are pretty similar to Williams and Banchero. Could change if Paolo continues playing like he did in the second half against VT. What we won't have is Theo, and that will be important to replace. So I agree. I just don't think Flip (just because he can shoot and dribble) and Lively (because he is thin) are soft and won't be physical.

 

[df64]

Kyle is not reed thin. Kyle and Lively are better shooters than Mark, so that helps a lot with running 2 bigs.

 

[JimboSlice00]

All I know is flip and lively are both starting and both are studs. I'm excited about the squad next year. If and i know it's a big if- Moore or Keels comes back, we will be preseason #1-#3 type of team. We have 4 of the top 11 players coming to town. That's legit

 

[JimboSlice00]

I actually think Flip and Lively are pretty similar to Williams and Banchero. Could change if Paolo continues playing like he did in the second half against VT. What we won't have is Theo, and that will be important to replace. So I agree. I just don't think Flip (just because he can shoot and dribble) and Lively (because he is thin) are soft and won't be physical.

Spot on

 

[sheyduke]

I actually think Flip and Lively are pretty similar to Williams and Banchero. Could change if Paolo continues playing like he did in the second half against VT. What we won't have is Theo, and that will be important to replace. So I agree. I just don't think Flip (just because he can shoot and dribble) and Lively (because he is thin) are soft and won't be physical.

I don’t see it. Flip is more of a hurt style player with a better inside game and Lively reminds me of Wiley Cayley Stein except not as muscular . Both are going to be good players but like Moore once they hit college they won’t be the biggest players on the court any more. Getting a player like Johns is crucial because the only size they have to practice against is the seven foot walk on parked on the bench and we’ll Reeves but Reeves will be a freshman and the walk on has only been in one game. The thing helping Paolo and Williams to some extent is Johns and Jones being fifth year seniors.

 

[christophero]

I agree with sheyduke. I don't see it as being negative; just realistic. Both these guys will be good players, but we may need to be patient. During the offseason a lot of us thought Banchero had no weaknesses, AJ would be dominant and Blakes would be in the rotation.

 

[JimboSlice00]

Well if that's the case, we are in big trouble. They are #1 and #7 respectfully. Just have trouble understanding why we wouldn't think two kids ranked in the top 7 wouldn't be an instant impact? Those type of kids have traditionally played very well as freshman.

 

[christophero]

I think Lively will have an instant impact but may take time adjusting to the physicality of the college game. It's a weak class. You're jumping to the other extreme. It's a good recruiting class; but we may not have veterans other than Roach to help. That's why we will add some transfers if none of the other guys come back.

 

[acc hoops]

I agree with sheyduke. I don't see it as being negative; just realistic. Both these guys will be good players, but we may need to be patient. During the offseason a lot of us thought Banchero had no weaknesses, AJ would be dominant and Blakes would be in the rotation.

I never thought a 3 star guard would get more PT than he is getting now. Hope he doesn’t jump ship especially if Foster comes next year.

 

[christophero]

Blakes will be the perfect backup PG next year if he is okay with that role. I'd like to see him get some non garbage time minutes. I just read that Mitchell picked us over UCLA after he saw us beat Gonzaga.

 

[df64]

The problem, especially if only Roach returns from this years group of contributors, is that we will need at least 2 of our incoming guys to be great and the other 3 to be very good. Not freshman level great and very good, but ACC starter great and very good.
Basically, we need to bat 1000 with Lively, Whitehead, Kyle, Mitchel, and Schutt. And we need continued improvement from Roach and at least serviceability from Blakes. That is a big ask.
Obviously Moore or Keels coming back lessens those demands as would a grad transfer(s) that is a good fit and productive. Bottom line, it takes an awful lot to go right to have a great team.

 

[christophero]

Agreed, and this year we had Moore, Williams, Baker and Roach back. That is 3 5 stars and a 4 star. Williams may have been a 4 star but he was top 30, as was Baker before he reclassed. Moore or Keels back is the difference between good and great next year imo. Even if Moore or Keels comes back we will still be young. Not complaining, as we will have talent and it will be fun. But that is a big roster turnover, probably the biggest ever at Duke.

 

[sheyduke]

Well if that's the case, we are in big trouble. They are #1 and #7 respectfully. Just have trouble understanding why we wouldn't think two kids ranked in the top 7 wouldn't be an instant impact? Those type of kids have traditionally played very well as freshman.

Lively and flip both didn’t rise in the rankings until this past spring. Also no one is saying they won’t make an impact just there is a big difference in playing thirty minutes in AAU and High school compared to college. Look no further then Kuminga and Dorean. Both once the top recruit of 2023 and the hard time they are having adjusting to college. I have reasonable expectations for them both but don’t forget they still lost time to Covid as well.

Duke will have a rotation of guards to put on the floor but lack in the front court . Mitchell will be good and Whitehead. The lack of experience and true leadership will be missed unless Moore returns if not two of the freshman will have to step up and I’d put my money on flip being a leader.

 

[christophero]

The 2 top 5 guys at Memphis are struggling as well. And the Gonzaga PG has been up and down. It helps to have upperclassman leaders, which is where Moore would come in.

 

[timritterus]

Lively and flip both didn’t rise in the rankings until this past spring. Also no one is saying they won’t make an impact just there is a big difference in playing thirty minutes in AAU and High school compared to college. Look no further then Kuminga and Dorean. Both once the top recruit of 2023 and the hard time they are having adjusting to college. I have reasonable expectations for them both but don’t forget they still lost time to Covid as well.

Duke will have a rotation of guards to put on the floor but lack in the front court . Mitchell will be good and Whitehead. The lack of experience and true leadership will be missed unless Moore returns if not two of the freshman will have to step up and I’d put my money on flip being a leader.

Are you talking about Jonathan Kuminga and Jalen Duren? Kuminga is in the NBA and Duren is averaging 11 and 7.5, shooting 67% at Memphis. Maybe you were thinking of Emoni Bates?

I see Mitchell as more of a 4 than a 3. I actually think we may be thin in the back court myself. Could just be Roach, Whitehead, Schutt, and Blakes between 1-3. Even if Mitchell plays some 3, that's not a lot of depth. We may need a back court transfer unless Moore or Keels return.

 

[sheyduke]

Are you talking about Jonathan Kuminga and Jalen Duren? Kuminga is in the NBA and Duren is averaging 11 and 7.5, shooting 67% at Memphis. Maybe you were thinking of Emoni Bates?

I see Mitchell as more of a 4 than a 3. I actually think we may be thin in the back court myself. Could just be Roach, Whitehead, Schutt, and Blakes between 1-3. Even if Mitchell plays some 3, that's not a lot of depth. We may need a back court transfer unless Moore or Keels return.

Yes Bates. My bad and 11 points isn’t a lot when your rated as the possible top pick and Duren has struggled as much as Bates in a lot of games and they don’t exactly play in the toughest conference. This is why I can see Foster coming early because he can play off the ball. And bolster the backcourt. IMO, I’d lean more to Moore coming back then Keels but right now I wouldn’t count on either. I think once Scheyer and staff have the high school recruits locked in who are coming in 2022 you’ll see who they target in the portal but I do think a upperclassman big would be wise.

 

[christophero]

Memphis has been a pretty big disappointment thus far as some had them in the top 10 preseason and they are 6-6. They have 2 top 10 guys, a senior DeAndre Williams, and VT transfer Landers Nolly. They did just beat Alabama though.

 

[timritterus]

I think Duren has been okay, but definitely not as good as expected. Still looks like most are predicting him to be a late lottery pick. Bates has been downright terrible.

Who is Fletcher?

 

[Jake1985]

My take is this:
Fr Lively will be a lesser version of Soph Mark and more like Fr Mark offensively with the exception that Lively will shoot 3s. But Defensively they add the same.
Fr Flip will be a lesser version of Fr Banchero although both offensively and defensively he can do the same things just not at the same level.
Fr Mark has some of the same qualities as Moore that he can add to the team and I’m guessing he will be more like a Fr or Soph Moore.
Fr Whitehead I think will give Duke about the same as Fr Keels
Fr Schutt, I believe will contribute much more than Fr Blakes

 

[The_Only_Blue]

Just read this article on Yahoo from Krysten Peek with the mock draft which was dated Dec 20 but like I said I just saw it. My guess is if Moore is as high as he is, he's definitely gone.

1- Banchero
16- Moore
19- Williams
21- Keels

She doesn't have AJ in there in for some reason. Maybe his stock went up more after the VA Tech game and now he's top 30?

2022 NBA Mock Draft 3.0: Jabari Smith making the case for No. 1

Auburn's Jabari Smith has been phenomenal early in the season and is a serious contender for the top spot along with Duke's Paolo Banchero and Gonzaga's Chet Holmgren.

www.yahoo.com

 

[christophero]

I'd have to think AJ is top 25 at least, esp. after his recent showings. If anything Williams at 19 seems high. That reads like a list from a month ago. I wonder if they mixed up Moore and AJ, as most I've seen have AJ around 16 and Moore in the late first/early second.
NBA draft net not as high on our guys.
Banchero 2
Moore 22
Williams 25
Keels 41
No AJ , which seems like an oversight. Although that is 2 mock drafts without AJ. I imagine if AJ keeps balling out he will be in the 10 to 20 range. This may be from preseason as that seems low for Keels. Only 2 seniors in the first round, so you really can't blame these guys for not sticking around.

 

[JimboSlice00]

My take is this:
Fr Lively will be a lesser version of Soph Mark and more like Fr Mark offensively with the exception that Lively will shoot 3s. But Defensively they add the same.
Fr Flip will be a lesser version of Fr Banchero although both offensively and defensively he can do the same things just not at the same level.
Fr Mark has some of the same qualities as Moore that he can add to the team and I’m guessing he will be more like a Fr or Soph Moore.
Fr Whitehead I think will give Duke about the same as Fr Keels
Fr Schutt, I believe will contribute much more than Fr Blakes

A freshman lively is head and shoulders above a freshman mark. Dariq is better than a freshman keels.

You're comparing the #1 and #4 kid to the #23 & 28 kid, in their respective class.

 

[JimboSlice00]

Lively and flip both didn’t rise in the rankings until this past spring. Also no one is saying they won’t make an impact just there is a big difference in playing thirty minutes in AAU and High school compared to college. Look no further then Kuminga and Dorean. Both once the top recruit of 2023 and the hard time they are having adjusting to college. I have reasonable expectations for them both but don’t forget they still lost time to Covid as well.

Duke will have a rotation of guards to put on the floor but lack in the front court . Mitchell will be good and Whitehead. The lack of experience and true leadership will be missed unless Moore returns if not two of the freshman will have to step up and I’d put my money on flip being a leader.

Haha yeah and rose in the rankings to #1 and #7. We have one heck of a class coming in and we will be locked and loaded. I think our front court/wings will be much better than the backcourt. We will have Roach back and I guess you could count Dariq as a 2, but I see the front court as much stronger next year.

I do agree with you in saying about the experience. That will certainly hurt us, but we are so spoiled with 4 top 11 kids lol

 

[jamsession3]

How about Duke recruit a 3/4 year combo guard and 6'9/6'10 Big. It's a huge necessity for practice and play in two years.

 

[Jake1985]

I know what I’m comparing but those class rankings and strength of classes are not really comparable. Lively would not be where he is if not for so many in the 2022 class reclassifying. Memphis (2), Michigan, Kentucky and others have players playing now that were all ahead of Lively. Also when the rankings are done at the end of the year it’s my best guess Lively won’t remain #1

 

[JimboSlice00]

Duran and Bates were slightly ahead of Lively. The Kentucky kid seemed to be ahead of him, but I cannot recall the Michigan prospect you mention.

I live 45 minutes outside of where lively plays and he's really, really good and everything I see of Dariq screams special. Those two are both top 5 kids and the others you mention were not.

 

[Jake1985]

Houston from Mich

 

[JimboSlice00]

Gotcha. I thought he was rated behind lively and Dariq, but I could be wrong

 

[Jake1985]

I think the best immediate impact will be Dariq & Flip and Mark to some degree. I think Schutt could have a DJ lite year but for me Lively is the biggest question mark.

 

[df64]

Duren and Memphis are a perfect example of the difficulty of building a roster in the 1 and done era. 11, 7.5, and 67% are fantastic numbers for a freshmen. The problem is, too often due to roster turnover, you need 18 pts, 7 rbds, and 67% shooting from your incoming big time recruits.

Check out Grant Hill's freshmen and even sophomore numbers. Today, you need Grant Hill to post senior numbers as a freshmen.

Look at 18-19. Zion exceeded expectations considerably. RJ put up star #s. Tre had a fantastic overall year as a freshmen, but shot poorly. Cam was good enough to start for a very good team, but "disappointed."

Like 18-19, next year needs 3 of our recruits to be stars and the other two to be very good. Statistically, that is a lot to ask for.

 

[sheyduke]

A freshman lively is head and shoulders above a freshman mark. Dariq is better than a freshman keels.

You're comparing the #1 and #4 kid to the #23 & 28 kid, in their respective class.

Neither were ranked one and four and lively by some sites is listed at number 2. They were barely seen as most recruits were due to Covid. We will see what they do but I’ll keep my expectations to a minimum until they hit the court that way the criticism that will come from this board won’t be on my part because they aren’t averaging twenty a game against real competition not Compton state when everyone thought Jalen Johnson was unstoppable.

 

[The_Only_Blue]

Whatever happened to Bronny James? I see that he's dropped a bunch but what happened just asking..I don't want him. Too much fan fare and don't care for Lebron. Not going any further with the LeBron comment.

 

[sheyduke]

Duran and Bates were slightly ahead of Lively. The Kentucky kid seemed to be ahead of him, but I cannot recall the Michigan prospect you mention.

I live 45 minutes outside of where lively plays and he's really, really good and everything I see of Dariq screams special. Those two are both top 5 kids and the others you mention were not.

But lively is ranked high because of his upside and available growth at one time he was ranked as a four star recruit. He has a lot of room for growth and will be a good player but seeing if he reaches full potential at his one year at Duke remains to be seen.

I meant Foster in my previous post .

 

[sheyduke]

Whatever happened to Bronny James? I see that he's dropped a bunch but what happened just asking..I don't want him. Too much fan fare and don't care for Lebron. Not going any further with the LeBron comment.

He’s a four star combo who many think heads to the gleague after school much like Wades son.

 

[Jake1985]

This year’s Fr are physically mature as well as skilled. That translates to being able to impact. Not saying it’s the only things. But look at this year compared to next
Williams 243- Lively 220
Banchero 250- Flip 230
Moore 210- Mitchell 205
Keels 221- Whitehead 200
Blakes 205- Schutt 185
Theo 245
Bates 224

 

[christophero]

There is nothing wrong with being excited about freshman, and no one is trying to be a buzzkill here. But it seems to me that a guy not in the top 5 is a coin flip. Like Hurt, who was excellent by year 2. Cam would have been as well. But they were very up and down in year one, which we may see next year.

 

[Jake1985]

I agree. I’m very excited about the next year Fr class and if Foster joins it, geez. But they will have to contribute in a big way for Duke to be success especially if only Roach & Blakes (if?) return

 

[sheyduke]

There is nothing wrong with being excited about freshman, and no one is trying to be a buzzkill here. But it seems to me that a guy not in the top 5 is a coin flip. Like Hurt, who was excellent by year 2. Cam would have been as well. But they were very up and down in year one, which we may see next year.

Agree. That is why I’m willing to wait and see and let them grow. I have no doubt that they will be good players, not going to say great . I just want them to hit the court first .
Griffin is a great example in growth and why some say he isn’t in the first round I have no worries about him not being there at seasons end. He progressing well and I don’t think it will be the last time we see him and Banchero on the court together in small ball like the end of the va tech game.