Coleman enters transfer portal

[christophero]

Maybe we should target more transfers who have 2 or 3 years left. Everyone else just leaves. If Baker and Moore stay they will be my heroes. It's not solely about winning games. These guy have the opportunity to transfer. If they don't they will be my 2 favorite players. If they do something is wrong at Duke.

 

[youngman42]

He got 5 minutes a game this year. I believe he would 12-15 next year and be a starter his junior year. Guess that wasn’t a fast enough track for him.

I don't think that is the issue. It's that Duke notoriously recruits over players like Coleman. And rarely does a recruit progress that smoothly at Duke.

We recruited over him with Theo John on top of Banchero; and the very possibility of Baldwin.

It's pretty frustrating. Coach K loses a lot of transfers that he didn't use to. There is just no continuity.

Everyone talks about "the brotherhood," but from one standpoint players are here so short a time it is hardly as if they are a Duke player.

Obviously the new transfer portal rules make it easier. But unless a coach is really interested in developing players, spending time to improve them - which it seems he doesn't devote as much energy to that - and letting them know that they will get PT if they work hard, this is going to continue at an increasing rate.

If Duke really wants to be competitive as a basketball program rather than a 1 year stop off / prep for NBA ... things are going to have to change.

And it's not as if every school has this happen. Plenty of successful schools keep their players by developing them, using their bench, or the freshmen see sophomores, juniors, or seniors getting increased PT that gives them hope.

The old school way of a hard nosed mentality toward PT just isn't going to work.

 

[youngman42]

More like least favorite time to be a Duke fan. The glory days are gone.
This is the trickle down affect of a watered down pro game, one with no structure. The players have too much power, they’ve greedy, and now it has flowed downhill to the college game.
K should have retired after the 19-20 season.

It is the least good time to be a Duke fan.

But I don't buy this "players have too much power" bit. They should not be slaves.

The real issue is K not developing and giving them hope for PT long term. When a 4 year senior leaves the program and then another who transferred in; as well as Coleman and Brakefield, that's not a good thing.

And this has been an increasing problem at Duke. You just can't develop the same kind of program. It is frustrating to be a fan.

If this were happening at every school the past 5-10 years, then sure, it would be a college basketball problem. And it may be more of a problem with this rule.

At some point, however, K has to step back and ask himself, "Do we need to change? Are we running a program that is good for the program, the school, for the fans (from whom a massive amount of income is ultimately derived), and the game? Do I/we need to change how we coach players?"

It's one thing to say you are going to have to earn time to be on the court if you are a top 3 or top 5 team every year and people are knocking down the door to come to Duke and you don't have PT.

It's another thing if you are what Duke has been the past several seasons with 1-2 dominant players, and usually not sniffing a chance at a title and still having those draconian rules.

What good does it do for a Coleman given the way Duke was playing and losing for him to not get PT? Or for a Brakefield watching kids recruited over him and Coleman?

I'd rather see the team lose just as much and yet play a bunch of players and let them develop into quality 3-4 year players as they improve.

 

[christophero]

One and done is so 2015. Seriously we need to dive into the transfer market.

 

[topps coach]

It is the least good time to be a Duke fan.

But I don't buy this "players have too much power" bit. They should not be slaves.

The real issue is K not developing and giving them hope for PT long term. When a 4 year senior leaves the program and then another who transferred in; as well as Coleman and Brakefield, that's not a good thing.

And this has been an increasing problem at Duke. You just can't develop the same kind of program. It is frustrating to be a fan.

If this were happening at every school the past 5-10 years, then sure, it would be a college basketball problem. And it may be more of a problem with this rule.

At some point, however, K has to step back and ask himself, "Do we need to change? Are we running a program that is good for the program, the school, for the fans (from whom a massive amount of income is ultimately derived), and the game? Do I/we need to change how we coach players?"

It's one thing to say you are going to have to earn time to be on the court if you are a top 3 or top 5 team every year and people are knocking down the door to come to Duke and you don't have PT.

It's another thing if you are what Duke has been the past several seasons with 1-2 dominant players, and usually not sniffing a chance at a title and still having those draconian rules.

What good does it do for a Coleman given the way Duke was playing and losing for him to not get PT? Or for a Brakefield watching kids recruited over him and Coleman?

I'd rather see the team lose just as much and yet play a bunch of players and let them develop into quality 3-4 year players as they improve.

Ideally that is what I would like as well but the reality is that kids good enough to get a Duke scholarship thinks that it is a quick ride to the nba.When they realize that they are not as good as they or their support team thinks they are disappointed and look for greener pastures.

 

[Mac9192]

It is the least good time to be a Duke fan.

But I don't buy this "players have too much power" bit. They should not be slaves.

The real issue is K not developing and giving them hope for PT long term. When a 4 year senior leaves the program and then another who transferred in; as well as Coleman and Brakefield, that's not a good thing.

And this has been an increasing problem at Duke. You just can't develop the same kind of program. It is frustrating to be a fan.

If this were happening at every school the past 5-10 years, then sure, it would be a college basketball problem. And it may be more of a problem with this rule.

At some point, however, K has to step back and ask himself, "Do we need to change? Are we running a program that is good for the program, the school, for the fans (from whom a massive amount of income is ultimately derived), and the game? Do I/we need to change how we coach players?"

It's one thing to say you are going to have to earn time to be on the court if you are a top 3 or top 5 team every year and people are knocking down the door to come to Duke and you don't have PT.

It's another thing if you are what Duke has been the past several seasons with 1-2 dominant players, and usually not sniffing a chance at a title and still having those draconian rules.

What good does it do for a Coleman given the way Duke was playing and losing for him to not get PT? Or for a Brakefield watching kids recruited over him and Coleman?

I'd rather see the team lose just as much and yet play a bunch of players and let them develop into quality 3-4 year players as they improve.

My comment about players having too much control and power was in reference to the nba, and everything flowing down from there. I don’t know where people get from that to making a “slave” comparison.

I stand by what I said. The pro game is not good, and you also have bad leaders in both the pro and college game. Everyone is overpaid, and due to that, the college players are in a hurry to get their piece of the pie.
The person who suffers is the fan.

 

[sheyduke]

Mark is returning so far let’s all take a step back . Now come on Moore and Baker.

 

[timritterus]

My comment about players having too much control and power was in reference to the nba, and everything flowing down from there. I don’t know where people get from that to making a “slave” comparison.

I stand by what I said. The pro game is not good, and you also have bad leaders in both the pro and college game. Everyone is overpaid, and due to that, the college players are in a hurry to get their piece of the pie.
The person who suffers is the fan.

I don't know why the slave comment is coming out. That needs to be left alone. I agree with you there.

That said, I don't agree with you saying the "pro game is not good." Why do you say that? Not a strong business model? Not the style of game you like? Also, the money is coming in...people are willing to pay to watch and/or networks are willing to spend to have the games on their channels. So what it comes down to, in my opinion, is would you rather the billionaire owners make more money or have it go in the pockets of the players? For me, the answer is the players. They are the ones getting the attention of the fans and directly effecting the amount of money pouring in. Owners are certainly due a piece of the pie, as they assume the risk. But ultimately society is to blame for being willing to spend so much to go to games (again, my opinion).

 

[Mac9192]

I don't know why the slave comment is coming out. That needs to be left alone. I agree with you there.

That said, I don't agree with you saying the "pro game is not good." Why do you say that? Not a strong business model? Not the style of game you like? Also, the money is coming in...people are willing to pay to watch and/or networks are willing to spend to have the games on their channels. So what it comes down to, in my opinion, is would you rather the billion owners make more money or have it go in the pockets of the players? For me, the answer is the players. They are the ones getting the attention of the fans and directly effecting the amount of money pouring in. Owners are certainly due a piece of the pie, as they assume the risk. But ultimately society is to blame for being willing to spend so much to go to games (again, my opinion).

Unless I’m mistaken, haven’t the ratings been down the last few years? I’ve said they all make too much money. But, we have this division in our country where everyone is pitted against each other. I don’t like the pro game, won’t deny. Don’t like how it’s turned into not just a 3 point contest, but to see who can make the farthest. It flows downhill. No one can say the college game isn’t diluted.
The one who suffers is the average fan. Even going to a Duke game is expensive. You’re lucky to get out for less than $100, when it’s all said and done. That’s just one person.

 

[bleediteveryday30]

https://www.dukebasketballreport.co...transfer-henry-coleman-pitt-virginia-tech-acc

 

[christophero]

Coleman to Texas A&M. good luck Henry.

 

[timo0402]

Best of luck

 

[bmbritt]

Coleman to Texas A&M. good luck Henry.

Neither he or Brakefield ended up transferring to a half decent program in the SEC. Not sure what that says about the opportunity that they were originally looking for when coming to Duke. By going to aTm and Ole Miss, it’s telling me that they’re willing to play for crap programs to ensure they get starts and a chance to be a top 2 or 3 player on bad teams.

 

[durhamgolfer]

Neither he or Brakefield ended up transferring to a half decent program in the SEC. Not sure what that says about the opportunity that they were originally looking for when coming to Duke. By going to aTm and Ole Miss, it’s telling me that they’re willing to play for crap programs to ensure they get starts and a chance to be a top 2 or 3 player on bad teams.

Coleman is going to be coached by Buzz Williams. Pretty good deal quite frankly.

 

[bleediteveryday30]

Coleman is going to be coached by Buzz Williams. Pretty good deal quite frankly.

I know a better coach he could've played for.

 

[Liftee]

I put Coleman in the category of Jamal Boykin who transferred to a West Coast school a number of years ago. Maybe did not have top flight skills but a good athletic kid who just wanted an opportunity to play right away. I don't begrudge Coleman but at the same time I want Coach K to improve the team whenever he can.

 

[durhamgolfer]

I know a better coach he could've played for.

True, but he felt it was in his best interest to make a change. Like everyone else, I was really disappointed but I am not going to trash a guy for doing what he thinks is best. I wish him luck.

 

[bleediteveryday30]

True, but he felt it was in his best interest to make a change. Like everyone else, I was really disappointed but I am not going to trash a guy for doing what he thinks is best. I wish him luck.

I've not trashed him. Just simply stating he took a major step down in who he's playing for. Not a fan of Buzz at all.

 

[bmbritt]

True, but he felt it was in his best interest to make a change. Like everyone else, I was really disappointed but I am not going to trash a guy for doing what he thinks is best. I wish him luck.

Wasn’t trying to trash the kid, but looking at 2 guys who would get significant playing time over the next 2 years at Duke who aren’t transferring to top 40 programs. To me, it’s a bad look for Duke as well. If guys that you’re high on do transfer, I want to see them end up at strong programs. Not at bottom of the barrel basketball programs in other Power 5 conferences.

Know Brakefield had the opportunity to go to a bunch of solid basketball programs. Assuming Henry was the same.

 

[ioliva]

One and done is so 2015. Seriously we need to dive into the transfer market.

Late response but looks like we’re too late. All the good guards have been snatched.

 

[durhamgolfer]

I've not trashed him. Just simply stating he took a major step down in who he's playing for. Not a fan of Buzz at all.
[/QU

Wasn’t trying to trash the kid, but looking at 2 guys who would get significant playing time over the next 2 years at Duke who aren’t transferring to top 40 programs. To me, it’s a bad look for Duke as well. If guys that you’re high on do transfer, I want to see them end up at strong programs. Not at bottom of the barrel basketball programs in other Power 5 conferences.

Know Brakefield had the opportunity to go to a bunch of solid basketball programs. Assuming Henry was the same.

There has been a nationwide stampede to the transfer portal. I see it as a really bad look for all of college basketball.

 

[bleediteveryday30]

There has been a nationwide stampede to the transfer portal. I see it as a really bad look for all of college basketball.

I agree. Everyone can stop with the "one and done" is ruining college basketball. It will be this transfer portal crap, imo.

 

[christophero]

We are getting slammed with both.

 

[Mac9192]

We are getting slammed with both.

Generally, teams have an idea on a one and done. The ones that transfer can really blind side you. Duke might be in the toughest spot under K with both scenarios. He recruits oad’s, and the returning kids see this.

 

[dachampishere2]

I don't think that is the issue. It's that Duke notoriously recruits over players like Coleman. And rarely does a recruit progress that smoothly at Duke.

We recruited over him with Theo John on top of Banchero; and the very possibility of Baldwin.

It's pretty frustrating. Coach K loses a lot of transfers that he didn't use to. There is just no continuity.

Everyone talks about "the brotherhood," but from one standpoint players are here so short a time it is hardly as if they are a Duke player.

Obviously the new transfer portal rules make it easier. But unless a coach is really interested in developing players, spending time to improve them - which it seems he doesn't devote as much energy to that - and letting them know that they will get PT if they work hard, this is going to continue at an increasing rate.

If Duke really wants to be competitive as a basketball program rather than a 1 year stop off / prep for NBA ... things are going to have to change.

And it's not as if every school has this happen. Plenty of successful schools keep their players by developing them, using their bench, or the freshmen see sophomores, juniors, or seniors getting increased PT that gives them hope.

The old school way of a hard nosed mentality toward PT just isn't going to work.

Man y’all need to stop this foolishness. All fans care about is their team winning. Not players development. As long as the team wins that’s all that matters. Coach K philosophy has not changed. He was to play 8 players max. We have been a competitive program. Our coaching has just been lacking the last 3 or 4 years. That’s the problem. Back in the day it wasn’t like we were developing players. They just stayed and once they got comfortable their talent started to shine.

 

[christophero]

It is what it is at this point. The fact that we are excited to have one senior and one junior back speaks to what it has become.

 

[thebluestreak]

Welcome to our world. Sucks for all of college basketball. Good luck to you guys in the future, unless you play us.

 

[youngman42]

Man y’all need to stop this foolishness. All fans care about is their team winning. Not players development. As long as the team wins that’s all that matters. Coach K philosophy has not changed. He was to play 8 players max. We have been a competitive program. Our coaching has just been lacking the last 3 or 4 years. That’s the problem. Back in the day it wasn’t like we were developing players. They just stayed and once they got comfortable their talent started to shine.

What are you talking about? The coaching has been lacking but that coaching includes a philosophy on recruiting. It's a combination of both.

Duke is failing in both. Not just on the court but so many players are transferring or turning pro after one season, it's impossible to build a winning team. And Duke - even with the top 3-4 recruits in the year Zion was here - just has not sniffed a title or final four.

The reason is not on the court coaching, it's that they don't have veteran *talent* that can compete with juniors or seniors and play together long enough to be a quality defensive team. The result is some exciting plays here and there by Uber-talented freshmen who have no clue how to communicate and play team defense, and therefore zero chance of becoming a great team.

At the same time, K recruits right over top of otherwise talented, top 50 recruits, and they transfer.

A) He doesn't recruit effectively to build a veteran winning team;
B) He recruits too many one year players that struggle to become a "team" - especially on defense.
C) He recruits over top of players and because he is too stubborn to give 8-10 minutes PT and let players know that if they stay and work hard their PT will increase (when it really doesn't), and so those players who sit on the bench want to leave and are able to.
and, D) He doesn't really work hard enough to develop the talent that is there. In the past Duke did develop talent. Jon Scheyer and Nolan Smith are classic examples - far better 3-4 years in than year one. Before that the likes of Battier, Boozer, all improved and became better players.

 

[youngman42]

I don't know why the slave comment is coming out. That needs to be left alone. I agree with you there.

That said, I don't agree with you saying the "pro game is not good." Why do you say that? Not a strong business model? Not the style of game you like? Also, the money is coming in...people are willing to pay to watch and/or networks are willing to spend to have the games on their channels. So what it comes down to, in my opinion, is would you rather the billionaire owners make more money or have it go in the pockets of the players? For me, the answer is the players. They are the ones getting the attention of the fans and directly effecting the amount of money pouring in. Owners are certainly due a piece of the pie, as they assume the risk. But ultimately society is to blame for being willing to spend so much to go to games (again, my opinion).

You're over reacting to the "slave" comment. It's a figure of speech - not some comp to American slavery.

Simply saying that players should be given some freedom. I'm not a fan of the immediate transfer portal but they should be making money and be allowed to choose to transfer.

 

[dachampishere2]

What are you talking about? The coaching has been lacking but that coaching includes a philosophy on recruiting. It's a combination of both.

Duke is failing in both. Not just on the court but so many players are transferring or turning pro after one season, it's impossible to build a winning team. And Duke - even with the top 3-4 recruits in the year Zion was here - just has not sniffed a title or final four.

The reason is not on the court coaching, it's that they don't have veteran *talent* that can compete with juniors or seniors and play together long enough to be a quality defensive team. The result is some exciting plays here and there by Uber-talented freshmen who have no clue how to communicate and play team defense, and therefore zero chance of becoming a great team.

At the same time, K recruits right over top of otherwise talented, top 50 recruits, and they transfer.

A) He doesn't recruit effectively to build a veteran winning team;
B) He recruits too many one year players that struggle to become a "team" - especially on defense.
C) He recruits over top of players and because he is too stubborn to give 8-10 minutes PT and let players know that if they stay and work hard their PT will increase (when it really doesn't), and so those players who sit on the bench want to leave and are able to.
and, D) He doesn't really work hard enough to develop the talent that is there. In the past Duke did develop talent. Jon Scheyer and Nolan Smith are classic examples - far better 3-4 years in than year one. Before that the likes of Battier, Boozer, all improved and became better players.

It's definitely in-game coaching and philosophical problems with the squad lately. Grayson and RJ were empowered too much. Bagley and Zion should've been the focal points. Coach K has no idea what to do with too much talent unless it's Team USA. It doesn't look like the players have roles. That 5-out offense foolishness needs to be scrapped FOREVER

 

[christophero]

Yup. 5 out works when you have LeBron and a bunch of shooters. I would argue that the 5 out approach has helped with recruiting, but his hindered us on the court recently. Elite Eights are good but a LOT of NBA talent has passed through Duke without a FF the last 6 years. Entitled maybe but visit any other team's message board and this is what they say. We are definitely overdue so maybe this is the year.