Bolden
- Thread starter duhondukie
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“he's short enough that they could throw it over his head“....I gotta stop you right there Yates lol! He can grab the top of the backboard, and hang on it!It take a pretty special pass (and) Center ((and)) a fatigued Zion. No help side. Maybe some luck
I'm not sure Zion is going to be as great at fronting on D vs larger guys. Plenty of other great athletes have had trouble with this. It is a relatively easy thing to teach a guard and a big man, and an incredibly difficult thing for a short defender to learn.
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To be successful vs Duke, no strategy has to have an incredibly high success rate. Getting an extra 1-2 fouls on Zion will literally be strategy number 1 this year. He might not be our best player. Heck, he might not be one of our two best players. But he's the biggest X factor, and the hardest thing for opposing coaches to plan to stop. He allows Duke to employ asymmetrical tactics on offense, while having a tremendous rebounder on the court as well. Take him out, and down the stretch Duke is very typical, with very inexperienced players.
“Plenty of other great athletes have had trouble with this.“ I’ll stop you there! I’ve never witnessed one like Zion at 285. Name 1. Lol. I’m just messing with you, giving you a hard time. I understand what you’re saying. Imo Zion through our first 3 games is our 1. (as of now) our best player I think.... but hey that’s just me .And that opinion isn’t about just being wowed at his athleticism. It’s every aspect. Feel for the game. He impressed me more then RJ. It’s early, and guys didn’t play, and RJ has the what could factor, the hype #1, it was 3 squat games, I know .Just got that feeling Zions going to be special too. Perhaps our specialist!! Lol
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You left out the 6-6, maybe, part. He's never had to front a guy on D. Or really lean on a much taller guy to push him out. All it will take is a few late rotations or mistakes, and he'll either give up baskets or foul.
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He doesn't have to do it 4-5 times a game. If he picks up an extra 1-2 fouls a game, that will make the end of games more interesting than I'd prefer.
At this point I’m not sure what your end game is. I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with you about other teams’ strategies regarding Zion. They’ll switch him on bigs. They’ll switch on smaller quicker guards. They’ll switch him on mobile fours. It’s up to Zion and the coaching staff to learn how to keep him out of foul trouble.
My whole point has been, with Zion’s talent and K’s defensive schemes, Zion fouling out of games or even just getting into foul trouble will more than likely not be a high occurrence. And the teams that are good enough to hang with Duke won’t have to employ that scheme anyway. And zeroing in so much on Zion will play into Duke’s hands with opening up the floor on O and D for the the other scrubs we have.
And again, Jav, Tony and MB offer 15 fouls and throw in another 10 with Jack and Justin. There’s enough of a defensive presence there to keep teams honest. Hopefully one or both of Ques and Tony solve this “who’s gonna guard the post” conundrum.
I won't be giving up on Ques just yet. There is a lot of laundry left in the wash. We don't even have an IDEA what this team even looks like yet.
Instead of giving up on him, I've accepted him for who he is.
In Canada, JD was able to find lanes and put himself in position for entry passes to get easy buckets. I was hoping Bolden would be able to do the same by now, but clearly he hasn't. Maybe that'll change when we have a true PG running the show, but I'm not expecting it. I've accepted that, right now, he's a big body with 5 fouls to give. I'm hoping he outperforms my expectations, but I'm not hopeful.
In Canada, JD was able to find lanes and put himself in position for entry passes to get easy buckets. I was hoping Bolden would be able to do the same by now, but clearly he hasn't. Maybe that'll change when we have a true PG running the show, but I'm not expecting it. I've accepted that, right now, he's a big body with 5 fouls to give. I'm hoping he outperforms my expectations, but I'm not hopeful.
I still think Bolden ends up as a starting center on a national championship team, not too many big men can say they started on a title team.
6 ppg, 6 rpg, and 20 mpg of great rim-protecting defense is all he needs to give us.
6 ppg, 6 rpg, and 20 mpg of great rim-protecting defense is all he needs to give us.
Bolden will do well I think. Having Tre Jones run the offense will open things up for Bolden. Also, having 3 dynamic players like Cam, Zion, and Barrett will spread the floor, which will allow Bolden to take his man one on one. I foresee this team being difficult to stop come March. We need a year without injuries for once!
If Marshall Plumlee can improve enough over the course of his career to become a starting caliber center, he was pretty good his senior year, than I definitely think Bolden should be able to do the same.
Worse case scenario: Bolden's minutes are situational depending on who we play. A team like UNC who has a plethora of big-men, we will need to see a lot of Bolden.
However, a team like ND who usually starts a traditional center but plays the bulk of the game with 5 shooters out there, we won't really need to play Bolden much, that's more of a Javin game.
Worse case scenario: Bolden's minutes are situational depending on who we play. A team like UNC who has a plethora of big-men, we will need to see a lot of Bolden.
However, a team like ND who usually starts a traditional center but plays the bulk of the game with 5 shooters out there, we won't really need to play Bolden much, that's more of a Javin game.
I think we are all pulling for Ques. Some have more confidence that he will come around than others. It shouldn't take many games, once the team is at full force to see if he is showing improvement with Tre and Cam in there. I hope he does. I would really like to see him have a good year, for both his sake, and the teams. I still think he has it in him. We will see shortly
No ish. But what did you see, vs the horrific frontlines in Canada, that made you think we'd see 20 minutes of even mediocre, much less great, rim protecting defense?
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That D is what we'll need most, and I didn't see it.
I saw absolutely nothing in those games, he was absolutely terrible.
However, he was pretty good last year, and I’d put much more stock into that. The question is. ...Did his role playing behind Bagley/Carter make things easier or harder for Marques?? No idea, I’d probably say easier though, being asked to start is much harder.
I think he will be muchhhhhhh better come Novermber, however I’m very comfortable with Javin starting the 5, as long as Tre and Cam are healthy.
I think Bolden is doing some serious soul searching after his poor performance in Canada. He's got the physical potential to do what is needed to be our starter. He showed flashes last season what he's capable of doing. He's just got to get through the mental part and show some confidence. I'm pulling hard for the big fellow.
Three games in Canada, in August, don’t define a career. Let’s put it in the coaches and Ques’s hands now.
Bags was a great rebounder and very good scorer. But he was pretty bad on D. Was Bolden that good, or was he just better by comparison?
It isn't "three games in August." It is 2 seasons of spotty play in an incredibly limited role, followed by three horrifically bad performances vs incredibly weak competition. We need Bolden to be decent this year. And he was so far from being decent that it was shocking.
Regardless of who Bolden was behind, I thought he was great as a back up big-man. He was probably one of the most over-qualified and best back up bigs in the country last year. He would have started on a lot of ACC teams.
Some games he was just okay, and some games he gave us a spark off the bench. He never really came in and hurt us.
If you think about it, he was probably one of the best back up bigs that Duke has ever had. Goes to show how funky our roster was last year, absolutely loaded up front but just okay at the guard/wing spot.
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It’s 100% 3 games. He had his chance as a freshman and got hurt. Then he had Marvin and Wendell in front of him after that. And he clearly doesn’t have the mentality to compete against teammates. Some guys just don’t have it. So this season is his first unimpeded year in the post. I’m willing to give him a chance. If you want to write him off, cool man. By all means that’s your prerogative.
I’m not in this game to be the one that’s correct. I just want Duke to win a title. In order to do that, two things have to happen, Tre needs to be healthy and ready to lead this team and one of Marques, Javin, or Tony needs to be ready to be a man on post D.
Bolden went 5-5 in 3 games against us last season. In one game it looked like you guys would be able to clobber us just by punching the ball in to him. But your team wasn't built that way (for perfectly good reasons) . . . fortunately for us.
He would have started for us. Which doesn't necessarily mean he's great, or a good fit for you. But my feeling is that he could be a serious force on a team that focuses more on getting the ball inside.
I also like Javin. He could have started for us, too. I'm hoping our struggling freshman bigs from last season will turn the corner in big ways. But Bolden or Javin would probably still start for us.
He would have started for us. Which doesn't necessarily mean he's great, or a good fit for you. But my feeling is that he could be a serious force on a team that focuses more on getting the ball inside.
I also like Javin. He could have started for us, too. I'm hoping our struggling freshman bigs from last season will turn the corner in big ways. But Bolden or Javin would probably still start for us.
I don’t think anybody’s “in the game to be correct” Nobody has even given anything to be correct or incorrect about lol. Haven’t heard anybody write him off...sounds like people are just concerned to me
I hear you and @PatrickYates. Either way, I’m just not personally ready to count Ques or the other Duke centers out. Patrick is right, there’s no denying how shocking Bolden’s performance was. But if it was bad for us, imagine how that kid feels. Maybe that was the motivation he needed.
On the plus side, Jav looked like he might be a great fit for what Duke needs next year. I can't speak for others, but I personally am having to shift a lot of my preconceptions, to a wide degree.
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Based on some of my opinions, I felt that Duke would need a certain amount of quality defense and rebounding from the C position. A large part of my thinking was based on my expectations vis a vis Zion. After the Canada trip, I have to admit (and internally adjust my thinking) that he is better than I expected on D and rebounding (and O, but that is somewhat immaterial to my calculus, only not really).
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Given that he looks like a pretty good defender and rebounder at the 4, we don't need as much d and rebounding from the C. Javin can do it. Prior to the Canada trip, I thought Javin would be a great switching defender, but that he'd have real trouble with bigs in the low post while being a subpar rebounder. I'm still worried about bigs in the low post, but less so than before Canada. And he was a pleasant surprise WRT rebounding. If he's able to be successful on the boards, and his effort and hustle make that promising, then he's more than capable of being the C.
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Because, Zion is much better on O than I thought. I thought he be decent outside of attacking the rim (where I thought he'd be great). Instead, he's very good outside of purely attacking the rim (where he's better than I hoped).
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I think Bolden is a better iso scorer than Javin. And he might always be that. And I thought we'd need more O from our C than we probably will. The four frosh, along with AOC and White, can probably score enough points to get us wins this year. Jav will get some garbage buckets, but he'll likely score less per minute than Bolden is likely to achieve. But that isn't as big a deal now compared to my previous thinking. We don't need as much scoring from the C, no matter who that is. Given that, Javin is probably good enough with his D and rebounding. He needs to watch Clint Capella, and look at Clint's recent FA contract, and take inspiration.
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I've been a huge proponent and defender of Bolden for the last 2 years. And most of the summer. The poor play in Canada makes my statements supporting him look stupid, which makes me look stupid. Which I don't like. So I'm probably being harder on him than many, because I'm more disappointed than some other folks here. That said, some others here are too eager to write off Bolden's poor performance. Those Canadian teams weren't very good. They had some decent players, ones that might be rotation guys on decent (but not great) college teams. But almost all those guys were guards and wings. Their bigs were atrocious. That 7+ guy is the only nominal big man that would play a single minute in a power 5 conference (or the better non-P5 mid major teams), and he wouldn't be a featured player. Somewhere in the 10-15 MPG, best case scenario. Regardless of offense, Bolden should have owned the paint on D and the boards. His failure to do so might not be as bad as I think, but it is worse than a lot of others think.
Don't worry about the O. RJ, Zion, Cam, AOC, Tre, and White, probably in that order, will generate enough offence for Duke to win every game we play this year. So long as the man Defense isn't as bad as its been the last few seasons. Bolden could help with that. He should, at any rate. Jav will probably be enough, but if MB cannot execute on D and rebound pretty well, then Duke's margin of error becomes uncomfortably tight.
This was a great post, btw. Well reasoned and rational. Perhaps too hopefull with that last sentiment.
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How much more motivation could he need at this point? He's a top C entering his junior year having made very little impact on college ball. He still got a lot of potential, but if he doesn't start capitalizing on it soon, his pro career will be in jeopardy.
Well ya know how critical I can get, (Duval all year) hopefully that time won’t come this year. Been biting my tounge with this already...Frustrations what it boils down to with me. I vent. And tend to lose it like Show lmao. Never anything personal. Just speak what I see, and it calms me down. Being a Duke fan is hard! ....Especially with all these expectations which I hate!!! People just waiting for ammunition to use, and Dukes demise. Feel like the pressures on me or something! I gotta get over it....I’ve matured (some)...lmao
....Especially with all these expectations which I hate!!! People just waiting for ammunition to use, and Dukes demise. Feel like the pressures on me or something! I gotta get over it....I’ve matured (some)...lmao
Now you k now I don’t have the attention span to read this......hahah but here I try go
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Jav is a great rebounder and if you were surprised in Canada, you’ll be in for a treat. His per 40 is around 12.9 rpg and his offensive rebounding rate was near the top in the ACC. With more time and opportunity, and less Carter and Bagley eating rebounds like hot cakes, I think Jav’s per 40 can move up to 14. He’s that active. Zion, Javin, and to a lesser degree RJ will be our main rebounders even if Ques gets his act together. He just doesn’t rebound out of his area. But rim protection is something he can really offer with his length and size.
Like his Defense in the previous season, Jav's rebounds tended to be outside of the paint. He was great at chasing down and fighting for long rebounds. But we've got to have someone that can be moderately successful in and around the basket in the low post. Someone to bang in the low post. If Jav can do that, Bolden will be in a fight for minutes.
Zion is going to get his lion’s share of rebounds as well. And go rewatch a few games from last season. When Jav was in, you’d be pleasantly surprised how many interior rebounds he secured (though quite honestly, with the continued focus on jump shooting, there are less and less interior rebounds to be had).
Great point. My biggest concern will be playing defense in the low post, and Jav might well be fine at that as well.
Expectations lowered to spot starter.
Bolden is a big piece to our Championship and "we need veterans" puzzle.
Bolden is a big piece to our Championship and "we need veterans" puzzle.
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