🚨 Official Gameday Thread- Duke vs Kentucky- champions classic 🚨
- Thread starter pisgah101
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I hate iso ball at the college level. It cost us last night.
Also John Calipari would have found a way to lose that game by double digits. Pope is an upgrade for them. Will be interesting to see how he handles the more talented teams he will have in the future.
Also John Calipari would have found a way to lose that game by double digits. Pope is an upgrade for them. Will be interesting to see how he handles the more talented teams he will have in the future.
I thought Duke might go 2-2 vs the ranked teams early in the season. Might be 1-3 now as they will all be tough games.
I totally agree about your “Stardom” comment. Hell, my wife could have coached the team just as good during the last few minutes. Just give Cooper the ball is not great coaching.
I will say positively that the defense was really good for the most part. Great length. They did poorly trying to stop the 3. But otherwise pressured the ball well and stopped a lot of penetration. I would like to see Brown in with Maluach and Cooper in at the same time for 10-12 minutes a game. That would be our best defense. Brown can guard anyone and that length from those 3 will bother shots and get steals. Rotate in any of Foster, Kon, Sion and Proctor at guards in that lineup. In fact if you had Sion and Foster with that front line our D would be tough to beat.
Right now our offense is our defense generating steals and missed shots. But John has to come up with some simple pick and rolls and more movement in offense.
Right now our offense is our defense generating steals and missed shots. But John has to come up with some simple pick and rolls and more movement in offense.
Remember the NC State loss in Cameron when Tatum costs Duke at the end of the game from trying to do too much? This was similar to that for me. Tatum became a different player after that game in a good way. Although Flagg has been more consistent than JT was early on let’s hope he still learns from this. Scheyer as well.
Agree on both. Iso ball is the only offense Scheyer knows how to run. Apparently he doesn’t watch film of other offenses or do anything much different from K. I was hoping he’d bring some fresh ideas, run a motion offense every once in a while. Learn and Teach! That’s why you get the big bucks.
Oh well. Lousy 3 Pt shooting nights and a lack of adjustment to reflect it are a recipe for a loss. We are not going to shoot 17% from 3 many times this season, but when we do, we can expect a loss if we keep jacking them up.
I don't disagree with some of the negativity towards Jon. Running plays in the last few possessions seems like a much better plan than handing it to one of your highly rated freshman and hoping he makes a play. But as already stated, Duke has a long history under K of doing the exact same thing. He did it 5+ times in the Zion/Barret year including the E8 loss against MI State. I hope over time Jon develops his own coaching strategies, and I have not lost faith that he will.
End of the day, losing sucks, losing to KU sucks worse, but losing a preconference game to a ranked team is not really a big deal. I have always said, I would rather us lose these games this time of year and win them in March.
I don't disagree with some of the negativity towards Jon. Running plays in the last few possessions seems like a much better plan than handing it to one of your highly rated freshman and hoping he makes a play. But as already stated, Duke has a long history under K of doing the exact same thing. He did it 5+ times in the Zion/Barret year including the E8 loss against MI State. I hope over time Jon develops his own coaching strategies, and I have not lost faith that he will.
End of the day, losing sucks, losing to KU sucks worse, but losing a preconference game to a ranked team is not really a big deal. I have always said, I would rather us lose these games this time of year and win them in March.
This for sure. Pope is such an upgrade it’s kind of crazy. We win Easy vs cal
Year 3 of Jon and I have a serious question.. outside of maybe once has he made an actual in game adjustment for the better! I really don’t remember.. I know he has changes some things after a game for the next and that’s clear but in game adjustments don’t seem to happen here
The reality though is "I've seen this movie before." An overreliance on one or two guys, where the 'star' gets the ball and the others watch him work. Hindsight is most of the time 20/20, but it may have helped to have taken Cooper (and Kon for a little longer) out midway through the 2nd half. The break does several things. Makes the others look for open shots, and also makes the defense guard someone different.
The bullseye that is always on Duke's back is even bigger this season because this is "The Cooper Flagg Tour." So for it to not be basically the same movie I've seen a little too much, Jon and the team have to learn from last night.
The bullseye that is always on Duke's back is even bigger this season because this is "The Cooper Flagg Tour." So for it to not be basically the same movie I've seen a little too much, Jon and the team have to learn from last night.
Arm Chair Point Guarding this,
Wish Scheyer would have played Evans and/or Harris once James was ruled out for the remainder of the game.
Duke shot 4/23 from 3 last night. Fatigue could have played a factor in Foster, Proctor, and Knup missing their 3s.
The non conference schedule is the time Scheyer should be utilizing his Top 10 guys.
Wish Scheyer would have played Evans and/or Harris once James was ruled out for the remainder of the game.
Duke shot 4/23 from 3 last night. Fatigue could have played a factor in Foster, Proctor, and Knup missing their 3s.
The non conference schedule is the time Scheyer should be utilizing his Top 10 guys.
Coop and Mal have too little body fat to avoid cramping. That was LeBron's problem earlier in his career, too. It's also why cold water distance swimmers (English Channel, Bering Straits) often look more like NFL linemen than like Phelps & Ledecky. Hydration, bananas, and the training table can help... but we might actually be seeing a situation where a Duke coach has to rest his studs a little more. We fans have argued about that for decades at this point, and now we might finally get to see it due to circumstances beyond the coaches' control.
I've always erred on the side of trusting the coaches on PT because the top 3-4 need to be able to play 30+ minutes in March, but I think we'd all agree that the downside is when those guys have an off game, there's often no one else to step up. I've always attributed it to K's military training where guys knew their role and sometimes struggle to step into a different one when there's an injury, foul trouble, or an off night. In particular, I want our veteran transfer players to be prepared to step up. Sion has shown the most potential for that so far and I know he got injured, but Brown and Gillis need to do that, too.
We'll learn from this.
Hats off to Kentucky. They earned it. They'll be a popular FF pick if they keep building on this.
I've always erred on the side of trusting the coaches on PT because the top 3-4 need to be able to play 30+ minutes in March, but I think we'd all agree that the downside is when those guys have an off game, there's often no one else to step up. I've always attributed it to K's military training where guys knew their role and sometimes struggle to step into a different one when there's an injury, foul trouble, or an off night. In particular, I want our veteran transfer players to be prepared to step up. Sion has shown the most potential for that so far and I know he got injured, but Brown and Gillis need to do that, too.
We'll learn from this.
Hats off to Kentucky. They earned it. They'll be a popular FF pick if they keep building on this.
Same scenario as last year, maybe a little worse. Over reliance on threes, not much penetration, playground basketball, subpar coaching. 39 out of Duke's 71 shots were taken by only 2 players, who shot 3 for 15 from 3.Oh, well.
OFC
OFC
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Hats off to Kentucky last night, they wanted the game more and made the winning plays. Hope The Blue Devils learn from the loss and improve.
Cannot afford to finish worst than 2-1 against
Arizona
Kansas
Auburn
Cannot afford to finish worst than 2-1 against
Arizona
Kansas
Auburn
I'd be happy with 2 and 2 in that stretch. That would mean 2 of 3 against teams ranked higher than Kentucky. Should be a challenge. Kon is good but not ready for a 38 minute night against a good, physical team. Guys need to step up. Foster and Proctor seemed a bit passive down the stretch. And Brown needs to figure it out he's too good.
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Chris,
I was most annoyed with Brown’s dumb fouls last night. I know he gave up 1 or 2 and-1 plays and Mal gave up a couple and-1 plays.
One of my biggest pet peeves is when players give up and-1 plays. I’m always in the belief that if you are going to commit a foul, make sure the offensive player does not score the basket. Just make a hard clean foul!
I was most annoyed with Brown’s dumb fouls last night. I know he gave up 1 or 2 and-1 plays and Mal gave up a couple and-1 plays.
One of my biggest pet peeves is when players give up and-1 plays. I’m always in the belief that if you are going to commit a foul, make sure the offensive player does not score the basket. Just make a hard clean foul!
Fair enough. Say the next 5 seasons bring 3 FFs, 3 ACC titles, dominate the rivalry, and two EEs but no title. Do you guys think our fan base would accept that? Or is it title or bust in these next five years? I'll be the first to admit that I am disappointed in the lack of national championships since '15. We've had much success since the last title, but this program and the fanbase expect NTs. And I don't disagree with that at all.
IMO Duke relied too much on the freshmen last night. Coop is an amazing player but using him to initiate the offense and run ISO is not going to maximize him or this team. We have guards that can do good things with the ball. At least let them initiate a play. And experienced players that need shots and more of a role than what they were given last night.
I am glad to see this team can and will play defense. This hasn’t been as much of an issue under scheyer as with Ks last 10 years except at times last year.
I feel like under scheyer he has emphasized sharing the ball way more than K did his last 10 years. And it has shown in the stats especially his first year. However last night the playground ball killed them. It doesn’t work in the college game like it does in the nba since in college you can pack your defense in the paint more and more physicality is allowed on ball. I would like to see scheyer call more plays
I am glad to see this team can and will play defense. This hasn’t been as much of an issue under scheyer as with Ks last 10 years except at times last year.
I feel like under scheyer he has emphasized sharing the ball way more than K did his last 10 years. And it has shown in the stats especially his first year. However last night the playground ball killed them. It doesn’t work in the college game like it does in the nba since in college you can pack your defense in the paint more and more physicality is allowed on ball. I would like to see scheyer call more plays
Completely agree on kon. There are too many good players on the team to make him play 38 minutes. I am all for letting shooters shoot but sometimes have to do things a little different in game if it’s not their day.
I think it’s more of the defensive liability last night is why Evans and Harris didn’t play . However there were twenty minutes in the second half and Kon needed a breather and Fosters offense was missing .
I think it’s hard to say until that happens
In my personal opinion, I do not think Defense was an issue. It was making shots, rebounding and physical play.
I couldn’t agree more. If I’m Harris or Evans and, in particular, watch Foster brick shot after shot, but I still don’t get any PT, I’m wondering why doesn’t the coach feel i could do better?
And furthermore, it wasn’t just the last couple of possessions that we went ISO, it was more like the last 5-6 minutes. We have all these talented highly recruited kids who were basically told “inbound to Cooper and then stay out of the way”. They’ve all been the “go to” guy their career, and now their coach says he has no confidence in them. How does that make them feel? Fully invested? Now is the time to find out who delivers in the crunch, so that as the season goes on, you know who to rely on. But it looks like Jon has already made that decision.
Well... if you're Harris or Evans, you've probably already received an explanation for why you're not playing. That doesn't mean they're happy with it, and it doesn't sate our curiosity about what they can do.
I guess I trust Jon in his reasoning not to play Harris/Evans, which is most likely the defensive liability that Shey mentioned. Give Jon/staff credit for their scouting on Brea...in the first half we totally abused that guy for his being a defensive liability as soon as he came into the game. He had to be a huge minus for UK (not sure what happened in the 2nd half seemed like we didn't do it as much). I use him as an example because I imagine the reverse would have happened as soon as Harris/Evans were to have entered into the game. We just switch everything so it is the easiest thing to scout...imagine Evans trying to stay in front of Oweh, or Carr, etc.
The issue I guess I have here is why even recruit Evans if you know he would struggle or not fit in our defensive system. Is it a hard thing to scout? Is it too complex in terms of communicating with teammates while on the floor? Harris I'm cool with...he's a multi-year kinda guy. But Evans is a different story.
All that said...it took a bad shooting night, our best defensive player cramping, an injury to our 6th man, Kon going 5/20, and somewhat of a road game (UK travels well in Atlanta) to take us down....and the game was decided in the last 10 seconds when we led for like 80% of the game. Should be an amazing year
The issue I guess I have here is why even recruit Evans if you know he would struggle or not fit in our defensive system. Is it a hard thing to scout? Is it too complex in terms of communicating with teammates while on the floor? Harris I'm cool with...he's a multi-year kinda guy. But Evans is a different story.
All that said...it took a bad shooting night, our best defensive player cramping, an injury to our 6th man, Kon going 5/20, and somewhat of a road game (UK travels well in Atlanta) to take us down....and the game was decided in the last 10 seconds when we led for like 80% of the game. Should be an amazing year
I think it was just more of missing shots. We hit a couple in the first and in the second we win . I’m not sure you can blame it on physicality . We had like five turn overs . Rebounding has been an issue since Maine . Our guards have got to come to play
I'm not convinced that every play down the stretch was for Cooper to go one on five. I suspect he was supposed to start the offense and hopefully draw defenders so others would be open. That didn't happen because there was too much standing around. It could have been fatigue, or nerves, or confusion.
I would like us to run a UConn type offense but it has always been Duke's way to put the ball in the best players' hands at crunch time. I agree with everyone that there needs to be more ball and player movement when the shots aren't falling and last night was a reversion to Coach K like hero ball.
I love Kon's game but I think last night he was exposed somewhat in that he is not quick enough to get his own shot at times and needs more team movement to get him free.
I like Brown a lot but I don't think he can play center against big centers. I was hoping we'd see some of Ngbonga last night but I guess he's not ready.
I was disappointed about the outcome last night but if we improve from this experience then it was worthwhile.
I would like us to run a UConn type offense but it has always been Duke's way to put the ball in the best players' hands at crunch time. I agree with everyone that there needs to be more ball and player movement when the shots aren't falling and last night was a reversion to Coach K like hero ball.
I love Kon's game but I think last night he was exposed somewhat in that he is not quick enough to get his own shot at times and needs more team movement to get him free.
I like Brown a lot but I don't think he can play center against big centers. I was hoping we'd see some of Ngbonga last night but I guess he's not ready.
I was disappointed about the outcome last night but if we improve from this experience then it was worthwhile.
I hope you're wrong with the last sentence, but I can't fault the thinking. Foster was a cold 2-9, while playing 29 minutes. Maybe he would have played a few less had Sion not gotten hurt. Proctor is decent. The kid plays good defense, but I don't see him as a 36 minute a game guy. The bigger issue to me though was Kon. I really like this kid, but going 5-20 hurt bad, while playing 37 minutes. That's a double whammy.
I hope Jon looks at all this and says "never again."
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I told you we need a 3rd big and the 3s would stop falling against a good team. You guys don't listen to me lol. Big Pat is a big body we need him. Brown is more of a forward. Foster may yet make a jump but if him and Proctor are the same guys not sure we make the final four. Lot of time to improve. If Cooper has to carry us he will wear down. He needs help.
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When i was a kid and sat watching a movie on TV, my Dad would walk into the room and say "i know how that one ends"...every time! Western, war movie...didnt matter...he knew because he'd seen it many times before....thats how i feel about Duke basketball the last 5 or more seasons...I've seen this one before and I know how it ends...I'll continue to watch just in case a new script will be written this year...I just dont have a lot of hope in it. Its great being old! lol
Agree here as well but if we keep getting the top 3 class every year and not win a championship by 2030 I say it would be a disappointment even with a couple final fours.
Shooting from the outside like that in a match up versus a name program will lead to far more losses than wins. I have no doubts this team will be a much better shooting team than they have showed early on in the season. It’s very very early. Also what’s up with the cramping issues? Are these guys teenagers or 40 year olds? Before someone says “adjusting to the College game”, this isn’t 1985. These guys play all the time from tournaments to all-star events, scrimmages, etc.
With that said, not very many adjustments by Jon and the pattern follows a number of high profile opponents in the Scheyer era. Which is to compete but ultimately lose by a small margin at the end.
Will Scheyer be 0-2 vs Arizona and Kansas each when November concludes? I don’t think anyone would be shocked. He’s a great recruiter so far but I’m assuming the goal isn’t 30 lotto picks 10 years from now and 0 Final Fours. (Posting the quiet part out loud)
We’ll see. Of his three teams this one has the highest ceiling no doubt.
With that said, not very many adjustments by Jon and the pattern follows a number of high profile opponents in the Scheyer era. Which is to compete but ultimately lose by a small margin at the end.
Will Scheyer be 0-2 vs Arizona and Kansas each when November concludes? I don’t think anyone would be shocked. He’s a great recruiter so far but I’m assuming the goal isn’t 30 lotto picks 10 years from now and 0 Final Fours. (Posting the quiet part out loud)
We’ll see. Of his three teams this one has the highest ceiling no doubt.
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Last night we looked like we have the last 2 years. But the potential is there to be better. Cooper so far looks like first year Flip.(First year Flip was good and a top 5 recruit)
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True on last two years, I would say in year one that early season injuries really screwed that teams development. When they finally got healthy we saw that 10 game win streak and the ACC Championship. (Should have been 11 in a row if not for screw job at UVA)
Last years team clearly had a shorter ceiling without Lively’s awesome rim protection.
This squad has tremendous room for growth, though I don’t see much of a post-up game as part of the equation going forward. And as others mentioned, where does Harris and Evans fit in down the road? It’s easy to play a lot of your bench when you’re up 30 on slippery rock state.
Kon is similar to Reed Shepard. Looks like a sure fire NBA guy, plays poorly against some the big teams due to being a freshman. Then Duke loses…. Also if Harris/ Evan’s don’t get significant burn the teams will swoop in, offer them fat NIL and they are gone. Heck, probably already getting texts .
Agreed. We can point to a few things that others have pointed out, and they’re not wrong but Duke lost because we simply couldn’t hit outside shots. I’ve singled out Caleb in a few other posts and I think he’s a fine player, but it’s going to be hard to win when your starting Pg that plays 30 mins gets you 4 points while shooting 22%. He has to be better for this team.
But what if the plays are simply being ran through Flag and Kon?
This was one of my concerns in the preseason thread . Everyone being told to look for them when they are open .
One play that stuck out was when Kon took the ball coast to coast against two defenders yet Foster was running a little bit a head of him and he easily could have scored because two UK players were right with Kon and it luckily went in . Got to have every player involved .
This was one of my concerns in the preseason thread . Everyone being told to look for them when they are open .
One play that stuck out was when Kon took the ball coast to coast against two defenders yet Foster was running a little bit a head of him and he easily could have scored because two UK players were right with Kon and it luckily went in . Got to have every player involved .
