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Official Gameday thread- duke at VT

Some teams come together and improve, some limp into the tournament. Could go either way. Right now other than Flip we are very mercurial. Last year Banchero, Williams and Moore were pretty steady. 14 and 6 is decent but if we keep trading wins and losses that is 20 and 12. A lot of our upside was hoping Whitehead would become a stud, and now he is injured again.
 
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We’re just gonna have to disagree.
The 17 team was ravaged by injuries, Tatum wasn’t healthy until it was too late and roles were established: it was Kennards team but it should have been Tatums team. We didn’t really have a PG and Grayson was a head case all year.
18: Graysons miss and the worst charge call ever kept us out the final 4.
19: that’s the tournament, survive and advance. Didn’t our 91/92 teams have super close scares before the final 4? 2022 almost got clipped by Izzo in the 2nd round. But no one ever wants to mention that, the tournament is really hard and really random. Ask Gonzaga who has had championship level talent for a while now but no hardware.

I tend to not use success in a completely random tournament played by college kids as a measuring stick for how good a team was. I prefer to use my eyes. And my eyes tell me that the 18/19 teams were absolute juggernauts who could have won the title but got unlucky. The 17 team thought super talented, probably didn’t have the right pieces, but definitely was better than a 2nd round team.
You know basketball, but you’re only seeing it with the Duke goggles on. You give reasons (excuses) why we didn’t win in 17 and 18, yet turn right around and say survive and advance for 19. If that’s the case, it’s that way every year. We can’t just cherry pick when it’s convenient for us.

One call doesn’t win or lose a ball game. The 18 team, had they been able to play any defense at all, probably would have beat Kansas. But they couldn’t spell defense.
 
You know basketball, but you’re only seeing it with the Duke goggles on. You give reasons (excuses) why we didn’t win in 17 and 18, yet turn right around and say survive and advance for 19. If that’s the case, it’s that way every year. We can’t just cherry pick when it’s convenient for us.

One call doesn’t win or lose a ball game. The 18 team, had they been able to play any defense at all, probably would have beat Kansas. But they couldn’t spell defense.
Honestly, I’m not sure what you have turned this in to. All I originally said was our formula from 2017-2022 worked because we got the absolute best players, and that saying it didn’t work because we didn’t cut down the nets is something a fool would say, or a hater. And if we are no longer gonna pick 1st in the food chain, we need to change strategy.

Do you believe our program was down during those years because we only made 1 FF?
 
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Honestly, I’m not sure what you have turned this in to. All I originally said was our formula from 2017-2022 worked because we got the absolute best players, and that saying it didn’t work because we didn’t cut down the nets is something a fool would say, or a hater. And if we are no longer gonna pick 1st in the food chain, we need to change strategy.

Do you believe our program was down during those years because we only made 1 FF?
No, I replied to your comment that we shoulda, coulda, made multiple final 4's, and had another title had it not been for some unlucky breaks from 17 on. Fans don't want to speak the truth. They seem to want to slant it, which I felt you did. It can't be bad breaks one year, and "oh it's survive and advance" for the next.

As far as Duke being down those years? We weren't down, but we didn't reach what we wanted, namely the 17, 18, and 19 teams. Again, if the talent we've had since 17 was at Kentucky or the holes, we'd be making fun of them.
 
No, I replied to your comment that we shoulda, coulda, made multiple final 4's, and had another title had it not been for some unlucky breaks from 17 on. Fans don't want to speak the truth. They seem to want to slant it, which I felt you did. It can't be bad breaks one year, and "oh it's survive and advance" for the next.

As far as Duke being down those years? We weren't down, but we didn't reach what we wanted, namely the 17, 18, and 19 teams. Again, if the talent we've had since 17 was at Kentucky or the holes, we'd be making fun of them.
Now we are going in circles. Again, whatever formula we used from 2017-2022 worked IMO. Feel free to disagree if you would like. The formula won’t work if we aren’t getting Zions and Bagleys. Had no idea that we weren’t able to talk about how unlucky we got during the tournament a few years and how hard/random it is to win in the tournament.

I’m open to changing the formula if we can keep guys around for more than a year.
 
Because the coaches decided RJ was "the guy"...if memory serves, he missed a few end game shots that season. Zion should have been our go to guy every time....
Yup. It happened multiple times during the season as I recall. K gave RJ the nod. But even that last game against MI State, Zion had the ball at the foul line with single coverage, instead of making a move to the basket, he kicked it to RJ who missed the shot, and then missed a FT and then tried to miss the second and made it. :(
 
My dad and I were watching Zions final game. He turned to me around the 2 minute mark and said "they are letting them hang around." And he was right. You also can't miss foul shots in the last 2 minutes. Just a killer.
 
It still boggles my mind how that team lost at the end. Zion should have just dominated every offensive possession.
Poor 3-point shooting (30.8%; ranked 329th).
College, not NBA, refereeing.
Weak FT shooting (68.6%; ranked 248th).
No low post presence.
Single elimination format.
etc.
 
Plus Jack White going ice cold down the stretch of the season. And I really liked Jack. He has played in some games for the Nuggets this year.
 
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Poor 3-point shooting (30.8%; ranked 329th).
College, not NBA, refereeing.
Weak FT shooting (68.6%; ranked 248th).
No low post presence.
Single elimination format.
etc.
Zion was your low post and mid post. Free throw shooting was bad.
 
Zion was your low post and mid post. Free throw shooting was bad.
Zion was everything lol. That team was a shooter short, AOC wasn’t ready to contribute. The transfer portal was already big then and if we had 1 more shooter than we would have been almost unbeatable.

Jack White went from unbelievable for the first 2 months to the worst shooting drought I have ever seen.
 
Mitchell has been shutting down wings all season, he’s our best defender. Whitehead was our 2nd best. Roach and Proctor guard the guards. And if a guard is torching us, then Blakes should get a shot.
Lol . Who has Mitchell stopped on the wing ? How is Whitehead Dukes second best defender ?
Re read your post . Roach and Proctor guard the guards? Wasn’t it VT guards hitting three’s on us last night ?
 
The revolving door only works when you are getting the absolute best recruits. And it worked from 2017-2022 (spare me the no titles argument, we were a few bounces/calls away from multiple final 4s and multiple titles.) and we had 1 bad year during that stretch.

UK has a monster class next year, they currently have the belt for top recruiting program “right now.” The early reports on Jon’s classes are he seems to still take some stars, but we also will be bringing in more lower tiered 5-stars (Mitchell for example), and 4-star shooters. I love that, IF THEY STAY MORE THAN 1 YEAR. If not, then we will be what UK was while we had the recruiting belt.

Oh, there’s also a chance that during the 2025-2026 season that we are just dominant if we get the Boozers and Cooper Flagg. Just hope we have some 2022. 2023, 2024 guys sticking around to be a complete team.
Nothing matters at the end unless you win it all. Look at all the three and four stars making it into the first round of the draft .Recruit rankings mean almost nothing now a days .
Mitchell would have continued to move up if not for his leg injury in high school. We haven’t even made it out of 22/23 y’all already talking about 25/26. Those kids aren’t locks for Duke .
 
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Lol . Who has Mitchell stopped on the wing ? How is Whitehead Dukes second best defender ?
Re read your post . Roach and Proctor guard the guards? Wasn’t it VT guards hitting three’s on us last night ?
Mitchell completely shut down Murray for Iowa. Tyson from Clemson was an absolute zero for them due to Mitchell’s defense. And both of these guys, Whitehead would guard them when Mitchell came out. We lose to BC without Mitchells block. Mitchell’s offense is terrible, but he gets on the floor because he is already an A+ defender IMO.

I love Blakes. Blakes hustle on defense is unmatched, however he did go under a couple screens against VT for 3’s and that’s why he never came back in. For a full game Blakes would not be able to do the things Mitchel does on defense.
 
Mitchell completely shut down Murray for Iowa. Tyson from Clemson was an absolute zero for them due to Mitchell’s defense. And both of these guys, Whitehead would guard them when Mitchell came out. We lose to BC without Mitchells block. Mitchell’s offense is terrible, but he gets on the floor because he is already an A+ defender IMO.

I love Blakes. Blakes hustle on defense is unmatched, however he did go under a couple screens against VT for 3’s and that’s why he never came back in. For a full game Blakes would not be able to do the things Mitchel does on defense.
Mitchell’s defense has been one of the few constants we can rely on
 
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Mitchell completely shut down Murray for Iowa. Tyson from Clemson was an absolute zero for them due to Mitchell’s defense. And both of these guys, Whitehead would guard them when Mitchell came out. We lose to BC without Mitchells block. Mitchell’s offense is terrible, but he gets on the floor because he is already an A+ defender IMO.

I love Blakes. Blakes hustle on defense is unmatched, however he did go under a couple screens against VT for 3’s and that’s why he never came back in. For a full game Blakes would not be able to do the things Mitchel does on defense.
Blakes was wearing a face mask coming off a broke nose he had the medical staff fix on site . You talk about wins where was their defense in the losses?
I’ll give you Mitchell but not Whitehead.
 
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Wiseman is more realistic and level-headed than some on here who seem to revel in the misery.
No question we're slipping. I have read Wiseman regularly over the years, and he's definitely not one to be called an alarmist. He gets his facts straight and I trust him.

I would say he called the present state of the team quite well. This is not the brand of Duke basketball we"re used to seeing. We have had so much success, we're not accustomed to checking the rankings and not seeing Duke there in late January.

We're finding ways to lose late leads on the road, not a good sign this time of year. I see a 19-12 record, headed into the ACC TOURNEY and that's a best case scenario. OFC
 
People point out that we have had skids in February, but those teams usually started out 16-3 or the like. A 3 game skid this year could doom us. I still think we get in, but we need to beat teams like ND and Syracuse. Jon says we're learning, but we need to get over the hump quickly.
 
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No question we're slipping. I have read Wiseman regularly over the years, and he's definitely not one to be called an alarmist. He gets his facts straight and I trust him.

I would say he called the present state of the team quite well. This is not the brand of Duke basketball we"re used to seeing. We have had so much success, we're not accustomed to checking the rankings and not seeing Duke there in late January.

We're finding ways to lose late leads on the road, not a good sign this time of year. I see a 19-12 record, headed into the ACC TOURNEY and that's a best case scenario. OFC
That's the best case? The best case would be 25-6 going into the ACC tourney. I know that's not happening, though. We've had too many injuries. I'm hoping Whitehead's is not as bad as it looked. I thought we were a 23-8 team going into the season. With the injuries now, a 21-10 record is more likely.
 
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Maybe. That's 7-4. That would be an improvement on how we've played recently. It's possible, but I wouldn't say likely. Unfortunately with another injury we probably never see the real Whitehead.
 
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Maybe. That's 7-4. That would be an improvement on how we've played recently. It's possible, but I wouldn't say likely. Unfortunately with another injury we probably never see the real Whitehead.
Have we heard any updates on the Whitehead injury? It didn't look good at the time.
 
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Why doesn't Duke say what it is? They must know by now. I don't expect a timetable, but the code of silence is just baffling around things like this.
 
K has a long history of playing injuries and return dates very close to the vest, and I assume Jon will do the same. While frustrating as a fan, I can see the tactical strategy. It's lousy for any team to lose any player due to injury, but if your competition doesn't know the estimated return date, it makes the scouting and game prep more challenging.
 
That's the best case? The best case would be 25-6 going into the ACC tourney. I know that's not happening, though. We've had too many injuries. I'm hoping Whitehead's is not as bad as it looked. I thought we were a 23-8 team going into the season. With the injuries now, a 21-10 record is more likely.
bleed I would take a 21-10 going into the ACCT.....OFC
 
I like Roach and think he's out there trying his damndest every minute he plays. But he just isn't that good. He wants to be our GUY down the stretch, the guy we can go to when we need a basket. And as a junior, that makes tons of sense. Every once in a while he shows flashes of that where he drives and pulls up for a nice mid-range jumper or whatever when we really need a basket. But that's rare. He just isn't Tyus or Tre Jones and he never will be. He doesn't have the shot. Doesn't have the court vision. Doesn't have the ice water in the veins.

Jeremy Roach could be a valuable part of a really good, top 10 team if the right pieces were around him. But he just can't be THE GUY on a top ten team. I thought Whitehead was going to need to be THE GUY for us, but that has not panned out as hoped. Flip is doing everything he can to hold this team together, but we're asking a lot of a 7' freshman.
I agree some players just not able to be the guy
 
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