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What's really going to be the decision.

It's not like Roy has not lied in the past.

Why not lie? There's no downside to it. And , as you said , he's lied before...

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Doesn't get much more damning than that. Something else to consider. Unfortunately , there's tons of teenage athletes dreaming of suiting up for the "flagship." I suggest many of those misguided youths don't care about sanctions one way or the other anyway. Sure , the "one-and-dones" might care but most players AREN'T elite so having to sit out a post-season or two during a 4 year career is manageable to some of these kids. Another factor. Kids often hear what they wanna hear. The unx coaches might tell 'em "Our lawyers have assured us men's basketball and/or football won't be sanctioned." The kid hears Roy/Fed ( whom they idolize anyway ) saying everything's cool even though that's not EXACTLY what they were told. So...unx gets busted. Then what? The coaches go right back an' tell the kids , "Our lawyers assured us we were good to go. We had the same info we passed on to you. It's not our fault they were wrong. Ya know kid , it's really not MY fault anyway. Those dadgum hifalutin lawyers an' such. Cain't trust a-one of 'em. Heckfire , you kin transfer after sittin' out a year anyway ifn ya want. Ya dun been here a couple of seasons though. Might as well stick it out. By the way...yer invited to my retirement party next month. See ya there."
 
To Sky's point of Roy telling recruits "nothing will happen." Its a shrewd strategy because once they lose schollies, they're dead in the water....They HAVE to lay on the HARD SELL NOW...
 
To Sky's point of Roy telling recruits "nothing will happen." Its a shrewd strategy because once they lose schollies, they're dead in the water....They HAVE to lay on the HARD SELL NOW...
IMO losing schollys is big hit to me.For example the loss of two school's a year represents almost 50% of your potential roster.It would be a very hard sell to tell a top ten player that he would have a chance to succeed under those circumstances.
 
Agreed. If they do indeed lose schollys they better hope NCAA does NOT ALLOW commits to transfer who have not yet entered school..
 
NCAA probably waiting until this season is over before announcing the punishment. They want UNC to go as far as possible this year before the ax falls.
Do they really? I think it would look really bad if UNCheat won it all this year then they dropped the hammer. I'm inclined to think the NCAA doesn't want the cheats to win it this year but who knows??
 
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I have a question for you guys.

I assume everyone agrees that the current UNC players are blameless. So my question is, if UNC is hit with a ban, should players be allowed to transfer without having to sit out a year? I think so. What do you think?
 
I assume everyone agrees that the current UNC players are blameless.

Mary's on record saying the fraud still continues. Heck , football has already been sanctioned and those penalties hit unx so hard they played for the ACC Title this season. This notion that "current players are blameless" is just more unx PR hooey. They didn't devise and operate the most egregious scam in the history of the NCAA just to up and stop , cold turkey! , when they got caught. They may have tweeked the plan a little bit to make it harder to detect but rest assured...the cheating never stopped. Early retirements , cosmetic alterations , scapegoating "rogues" , demonizing whistle-blowers plus 10 million ( an' countin' ) for what?!?!?! To come clean? Start over? Promise to never do it again?



...they knew they were taking a chance


THIS!!! ^^^ I have zero sympathy for kids who sign on when there's more than ample evidence to show that unx will be sanctioned. If Roy/Fed had a shred of conscience they'd concede minor infractions ( at least! ) but no...they claim everything's fine. If that were so , why the delay? Why the investigation? unx doesn't know just like WE don't know. And judging by their actions , if they DO know something , it ain't good. And again , these kids aren't idiots...they can read...they all do social media an' such. Feel sorry for 'em? Pass.
 
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If this was all the NCAA was gonna do , they'd have been better off NOT going back to unx to re-investigate. That's a wristslap of epic proportions and would draw more negative attention than a refusal to return to unx at all would've. I'm pessimistic too but unx doesn't spend 10+ millions of dollars defending themselves against schollie losses and probation. This would all be over by now.
I agree. I think the NCAA is trying to get everything clear in writing that way there is no confusion. You don't spend 10 mil defending against petty stuff. I'm sure they have spent much more that will never be known about
 
I agree. I think the NCAA is trying to get everything clear in writing that way there is no confusion. You don't spend 10 mil defending against petty stuff. I'm sure they have spent much more that will never be known about
I don't know what the alternative to the NCAA would be, but, it the Tarholes get off with a wristslap, I hope it would cause a rebellion against them since they have hammered teams for far less than 18 years of cheating.
 
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I don't know what the alternative to the NCAA would be, but, it the Tarholes get off with a wristslap, I hope it would cause a rebellion against them since they have hammered teams for far less than 18 years of cheating.


Honestly , were it not for this ^^^ I'd be more pessimistic than I already am. Again , the NCAA is fighting for THEIR existence this time NOT unx's...and a lot of people are watching. I hope it doesn't come to this but it would be interesting to see how the NCAA continues to justify being in business after letting unx walk...again.
 
I asked this once before, and probably no one really knows the answer. But , will Swofford go to Indy, or wherever , this time to go to bat for them? He did the last time. And, to my knowledge has never done it for anyone else.
 
I asked this once before, and probably no one really knows the answer. But , will Swofford go to Indy, or wherever , this time to go to bat for them? He did the last time. And, to my knowledge has never done it for anyone else.


Rest assured , whatever he can do for his alma mater , he's doing. And I believe you're correct re: his support for unx. Can't say definitively but the word was he didn't accompany Miami the last time they had to stand tall before the man. Syracuse? Was he there for them either? Now I will say one thing in his defense. For years , there was a story that he suggested more draconian sanctions on Clemson than the NCAA had initially hit them with. That's urban legend. A very believable "urban legend" mind you but an urban legend nonetheless. Regardless , the point remains...he's gonna support unx however possible and it ain't because they're a member institution of the ACC.
 
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Anyone watch the interview Dan Kane conducted w/Swofford after a Triangle sports club luncheon several months ago?? DK had him walking a tightrope per his knowledge of the scandal...
 
Rest assured , whatever he can do for his alma mater , he's doing. And I believe you're correct re: his support for unx. Can't say definitively but the word was he didn't accompany Miami the last time they had to stand tall before the man. Syracuse? Was he there for them either? Now I will say one thing in his defense. For years , there was a story that he suggested more draconian sanctions on Clemson than the NCAA had initially hit them with. That's urban legend. A very believable "urban legend" mind you but an urban legend nonetheless. Regardless , the point remains...he's gonna support unx however possible and it ain't because they're a member institution of the ACC.
Speaking of Swofford...If he is going to bat for them as much as he is/has...I wonder how many paper classes he may have taken???
 
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Speaking of Swofford...If he is going to bat for them as much as he is/has...I wonder how many paper classes he may have taken???



Good question. He played ball at unx too. He was the athletic director during all the fun-n-games. As Tydreke Powell would say..."You know he know."



Anyone watch the interview Dan Kane conducted w/Swofford after a Triangle sports club luncheon several months ago?? DK had him walking a tightrope per his knowledge of the scandal...


Scroll down...

https://duke.forums.rivals.com/threads/the-carolina-way-viii.610/page-33
 
Little will happen though they should have titles vacated and lose postseason play.

But the reason is that it works just the opposite of what Devildj is saying, imo. But I love his excellent work. I think that thread should have a permanent place here. It is historically significant and probably the best chronicle of the whole fiasco.

That said, UNC is and has been for decades the poster child of the NCAA's model for college athletics. Great academics. Large public school. Success in several sports. One of the all-time greatest coaches in any sport (Dean - who did much to integrate CBB in the south with Charlie Scott). So if the NCAA were to give UNC true justice, it would in effect be shooting itself in the foot. They will still get some heat from a few writers but it will die away. But to have a top school go down Bec of fraudulent academics would start the crack that would rip up the NCAA. It still is in trouble as an org. And it must start to pay athletes their due or it will collapse - especially in basketball Bec it is easier to form a minor league that can produce players.

So, slap on the wrist.
 
Little will happen though they should have titles vacated and lose postseason play.

But the reason is that it works just the opposite of what Devildj is saying, imo. But I love his excellent work. I think that thread should have a permanent place here. It is historically significant and probably the best chronicle of the whole fiasco.

That said, UNC is and has been for decades the poster child of the NCAA's model for college athletics. Great academics. Large public school. Success in several sports. One of the all-time greatest coaches in any sport (Dean - who did much to integrate CBB in the south with Charlie Scott). So if the NCAA were to give UNC true justice, it would in effect be shooting itself in the foot. They will still get some heat from a few writers but it will die away. But to have a top school go down Bec of fraudulent academics would start the crack that would rip up the NCAA. It still is in trouble as an org. And it must start to pay athletes their due or it will collapse - especially in basketball Bec it is easier to form a minor league that can produce players.

So, slap on the wrist.
Great academics? Success in several sports??? This could be due to fraudulent classes. If you win titles whether it be Conf./Natty's and kids talk to their AAU friends about how "easy" the workload is and you can take a Swahili course and paper classes. As a high school kid who can either go to UNX and take some AFAM class and have a shot at the pros or you can not go to Carolina, graduate and be the next head bag boy at Billy and Fran's Grocerteria. What do you choose???

I see your point but if the NCAA lets this go unpunished, they might as well start boxing up the offices because every school will become a joke and offer fake classes. This fraud dates way back. How much hasn't the NCAA found. Most of this is through emails. Think of the crap that was handwritten on UNx letter head and trashed before the computer came out. One other thing, hypothetically, if you were a student and took fake classes. I offered you 3 mil to keep quiet and WRAL Channel 5 offered you a boxed lunch from Five Guys to come and talk. You gonna eat one meal or swim in 3 mil???
 
The amount of money unx has paid out to shut people up is way more than the 10 mil they've admitted to. And keep in mind , the NCAA has the e-mails posted here...un-redacted. There are clear lines of culpability regarding fake ( yes , "fake" ) classes given for no other reason than to ensure athletic eligibility. True , we could get another wristslap but the first NCAA investigation was only about football and it was perceived to be somewhat isolated. We're five years in. FIVE! Headed towards six! As Dr. Ridpath said in the other thread , no school has ever "walked" from an investigation this long. The NCAA can't survive not taking decisive action...especially given the pervasiveness of the corruption and the amount of voices that are just waiting to be heard if they go easy.
 
Amen, this case is WAY TOO PRECEDENT SETTING in terms of the scope/length of corruption for a simple slap on wrist!
 
The amount of money unx has paid out to shut people up is way more than the 10 mil they've admitted to. And keep in mind , the NCAA has the e-mails posted here...un-redacted. There are clear lines of culpability regarding fake ( yes , "fake" ) classes given for no other reason than to ensure athletic eligibility. True , we could get another wristslap but the first NCAA investigation was only about football and it was perceived to be somewhat isolated. We're five years in. FIVE! Headed towards six! As Dr. Ridpath said in the other thread , no school has ever "walked" from an investigation this long. The NCAA can't survive not taking decisive action...especially given the pervasiveness of the corruption and the amount of voices that are just waiting to be heard if they go easy.
and, I still think the books that have been written will make it even more difficult for the NCAA to just sweep it under the rug.
 
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and, I still think the books that have been written will make it even more difficult for the NCAA to just sweep it under the rug.
Can you imagine the NCAA sweeping this under the rug? UK and Calipari would put these kids in Pig Latin and McDonalds Tea Making classes to get the big name recruits.
 
Great academics? Success in several sports??? This could be due to fraudulent classes. If you win titles whether it be Conf./Natty's and kids talk to their AAU friends about how "easy" the workload is and you can take a Swahili course and paper classes.

You are completely misreading the post. As such your response is completely superfluous.

UNC as a school has great academics. It has some of the top departments in history, medicine, etc. As an academic institution it is top notch, a few fraudulent classes aside from a few in football and basketball. That's my point. If you disagree with that then you're operating on the basis of fraudulent thinking. In fact, that's one reason many of the faculty at UNC were calling for heavy sanctions against the football and basketball program because they are exceptional academics themselves.

Secondly, the success in several sports that it had going back decades was not connected to the fraudulent classes exposed more recently. And, the vast majority of sports outside of football and basketball and baseball are filled with true student athletes who get no accolades for their sport nor any professional aspirations or possibilities - they need their academic degrees and instruction to succeed after school.

That is not a defense of UNC or the cheating. Just to note that prior to this scandal and in other areas - UNC has earned a positive reputation.
 
Youngman I agree with you....However their past reputation for academic success, etc has little or no bearing AT THIS POINT....Fact is they've thumbed their nose for ATHLETIC SUPERIORITY at expense of ACADEMIC DISHONESTY for 20plus years.....Major revenue sports to boot!
 
Viking the most massive academic scandal in history to keep revenue sports athletes eligible does not bore me. If you check, books have been written about it, lawyers and pr teams are bankrolling millions on it and the world is watching...
 
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I'm not a Duke guy, so not sure if my weighing in violates the spirit of the thread. But I don't think there will be any significant penalties. There should be, but there won't be. I agree with Sky pretty much across the board on this.
 
Dcon it will be that much more reason to celebrate for you and others sharing the same view when they get hammered!!
 
Dcon it will be that much more reason to celebrate for you and others sharing the same view when they get hammered!!
Count me in with the "others" then. I think you and DJ unfortunately are in for a very unfulfilled result here.
 
From what I understand, UNC basketball and football should be safe. Women's bball and men's soccer might have some significant infractions to deal with.

To be honest, I'm just ready for it to end. The never ending dark cloud has hurt football and basketball more than any NCAA punishment has. Recruiting is down. Fan involvement is down. Public perception is down.
 
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timo if thats the case get ready for "lawsuit city" from other schools who have paid more severe prices for less scandalous activities....This is exactly why the NCAA cannot afford to be too soft.Also the popular perception raised by ticket of other sports taking a much more severe hit id EXACTLY what the UNC PR machine and coaches want the public and recruits to believe...

As for being "ready for it to end," thats a choice UNC could have made many moons ago by coming clean. Thus you can blame the flagship for the lifespan of the pending case...
 
timo if thats the case get ready for "lawsuit city" from other schools who have paid more severe prices for less scandalous activities....This is exactly why the NCAA cannot afford to be too soft.Also the popular perception raised by ticket of other sports taking a much more severe hit id EXACTLY what the UNC PR machine and coaches want the public and recruits to believe...

As for being "ready for it to end," thats a choice UNC could have made many moons ago by coming clean. Thus you can blame the flagship for the lifespan of the pending case...
In your opinion, what UNC sports should be punished and why? What should the punishment be?

And what do you mean by coming clean many moons ago?
 
3-4 yr postseason bans on mens hoops and fb...it dates back to days of Dean (I am sorry ticket but it does, but we ALL KNOW it won't touch him because of his legendary status and WR didnt touch him). Matt Doherty did tell Wainstein Dean and Gut told him "dont change academics" and he didnt.Then as you know if you've followed it, AFAM and PCs only flourished under Roy. Also never mind Roy is not named in the NOA, his program is designated and WW was an extension of Roy...The 2005 group was LACED w/AFAM majors and I clearly see that banner coming down...Also, 2009 is in serious peril because of the naval classes and the continued presence of AFAM....I won't go into the length and bredth of the recent "document dump" the school fought to keep from goin public because its so fraught with scandalous activity...

Football is just as knee deep, and has its roots in the scandal back for years, and various head coaches were aware of or SHOULD HAVE known (like Roy) what was transpiring...Everyone is aware of Marvin passing a 400 level course in summer school, when his aptitude clearly was not near such a level...I know also you may say Rashad is a liar, but lets take a closer look: why has NO OTHER SINGLE 2005 grad come forth in a hard hitting face to face interview, and disputed his claims??? Remember when Sean May said "I changed majors to AFAM so I wouldnt have to he in class as much."Telling...

Many moons ago and spared how many investigations???Baker-Tilley/Martin, Wainstein, others, plus millions in lawyers and pr to spin it...

Former state AG Rufus Edmisten and UNC player Don Eggleston are both on the record venting their embarrassment of the entire mess...
 
3-4 yr postseason bans on mens hoops and fb...it dates back to days of Dean (I am sorry ticket but it does, but we ALL KNOW it won't touch him because of his legendary status and WR didnt touch him). Matt Doherty did tell Wainstein Dean and Gut told him "dont change academics" and he didnt.Then as you know if you've followed it, AFAM and PCs only flourished under Roy. Also never mind Roy is not named in the NOA, his program is designated and WW was an extension of Roy...The 2005 group was LACED w/AFAM majors and I clearly see that banner coming down...Also, 2009 is in serious peril because of the naval classes and the continued presence of AFAM....I won't go into the length and bredth of the recent "document dump" the school fought to keep from goin public because its so fraught with scandalous activity...

Football is just as knee deep, and has its roots in the scandal back for years, and various head coaches were aware of or SHOULD HAVE known (like Roy) what was transpiring...Everyone is aware of Marvin passing a 400 level course in summer school, when his aptitude clearly was not near such a level...I know also you may say Rashad is a liar, but lets take a closer look: why has NO OTHER SINGLE 2005 grad come forth in a hard hitting face to face interview, and disputed his claims??? Remember when Sean May said "I changed majors to AFAM so I wouldnt have to he in class as much."Telling...

Many moons ago and spared how many investigations???Baker-Tilley/Martin, Wainstein, others, plus millions in lawyers and pr to spin it...

Former state AG Rufus Edmisten and UNC player Don Eggleston are both on the record venting their embarrassment of the entire mess...
Let me ask again. Why should taking these classes result in penalties from the NCAA?
 
Ticket, you do realize that you have to stay eligible to play! There-fore if the only way you are eligible to play is fake classes, then the school is using en eligible players. That is a major violation!
 
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