The curious case of lively

[ioliva]

Kinda shocking how he was the #1 rated recruit. Averaged a pedestrian 14 and 14 in high school. He played 14 minutes on the team USA summit and contributed 8 points 3 rebounds

Also eybl stats are super weak with 8.4 ppg and 6.4 rpg

Just weird. I get it. 7’2 athletic guy… but damn looking at production wise he should’ve been a top 50-75 guy. Did everyone get fooled as in scheyer and analysts alike?

 

[sheyduke]

No , I think his rating was based off what he did if he put his best game on the court and I don’t think he has . The question is does he really want to play to his full potential?

 

[dukesince91]

No , I think his rating was based off what he did if he put his best game on the court and I don’t think he has . The question is does he really want to play to his full potential?

He seems to want to play more than Whitehead.

 

[pisgah101]

Get it straight he was the number FOUR player in the class 🤣

 

[christophero]

This
is
what
happens
when
you
rely
on
freshman

 

[LobsterGoesPinchPinch]

Lively's never been known as a guy who could create, but he was expected to feast off of lobs. But we have no one who can reliably penetrate, which really makes Lively pretty useless offensively. What has surprised me is how poor a rebounder he is, given his length, but he's not yet strong enough to get to his spots.

He reminds me of a not quite as talented version of Willie Cauley-Stein at Kentucky, ranked 40th in the 2012 class and who averaged 6 & 7 his first 2 years then blossomed on a stacked team and went 6th in the draft. If Lively had come in ranked on college impact, he would have been ranked in the 40s and we wouldn't be having this convo.

I think within 2-3 years Lively will carve out a decent professional living in the NBA, his measurables are off the charts and with time to get stronger, he could be a real force on D. I hope whichever team drafts him has patience and can help him maximize his potential on offense. That never happened for WCS and he's in the G-League.

 

[christophero]

The odds of Lively being a sophomore at Duke are roughly equivalent to Amy Adams knocking on my door tonight.

 

[bleediteveryday30]

This
is
what
happens
when
you
rely
on
freshman

We've had some good seasons since we started the one-and-done thing, too. I remember how bleak it was from 07-09 watching Carolina go to an EE, FF, and win a title—especially coming off of those brutal years in 04-06. Losing the FF game to UConn (the one that hurts the most for me), watching the holes win in '05, and then JJ and Sheldon falling out early in '06. McRoberts and Paulus were supposed to be the next second coming of Hurley and Laettner for some, which still blows my mind. That didn't work out. Paulus stayed for four years and regressed every year after his first year. Duke, during that time, only picked up one ACC title and was basically owned by Carolina.

Everyone complained about the talent we got during that span. Now, everyone complains about the talent we get, but they don't stick around. I get it, man. I do. I want guys to stay longer. But hey, look at Carolina, they brought virtually everyone back, and we've got a better record than they do, only by one win, but still. They're loaded with a blend of experienced talent, and young talent had the preseason number one ranking and sit at 12-6 and 4-3. There's no magic formula.

 

[christophero]

There is not, but I would not bet money that we will beat UNC when we play them. We all know how that will go. I'm just in a bad mood tonight lol.

 

[bleediteveryday30]

There is not, but I would not bet money that we will beat UNC when we play them. We all know how that will go. I'm just in a bad mood tonight lol.

I get it, man. I am in such a pissy mood from how the Raiders season went and ended that I haven't been bothered by Duke's issues this year. Our record is what I thought it would be at this point. I was thinking 22-9 for the regular season, a win or two in the ACC tourney, and a Sweet Sixteen.

 

[christophero]

The Raiders need a new QB. Can they draft one? Carr does not seem to be the answer.

 

[bleediteveryday30]

The Raiders need a new QB. Can they draft one? Carr does not seem to be the answer.

Carr was benched those last two games, and the Raiders moved on. I love Carr and everything he did for the franchise. He deserved a better ending, but I think he will be a starter somewhere in 2023. I honestly believe we need to draft for OL and D. Go after a free agent veteran QB or with a trade. The Raiders insiders say Brady, Jimmy G, or trade for Rodgers. Drafting a QB seems like another rebuild. I'm tired of the endless restarts of this franchise.

 

[christophero]

Man you're making me a Raiders fan. Just draft a QB.

 

[LobsterGoesPinchPinch]

Man you're making me a Raiders fan. Just draft a QB.

Don't go down that road, it sucks.

Grew up in CA so lifelong Dodgers and Lakers fan. Use to follow the Raiders but they're so dysfunctional, I gave up on them. A friend stayed committed to them and after every painful end to the season he swears he's done w/ them.

They remind me of the Dodgers, who needed to new ownership group to move on from a decade of dysfunction with McCourt. If Davis ever sells, it might be safe to be a fan.

 

[christophero]

Bleed and I are buddies so I need to encourage him. The Bengals drafted Joe and look what happened. They were the worst team in football before Joe.

 

[9dukejames]

I think that the above comparison to WCS is apt. Were Lively to stay until he was a Jr. at Duke, he would have great value at Duke but so long as he is projected as even a late first round pick or early second, we all know that it is not happening. Except for Whitehead, it's still a bit of a guessing game with the other freshmen. I have no idea what Roach will do. We will have plenty to talk about after the season ends.

 

[bleediteveryday30]

Don't go down that road, it sucks.

Grew up in CA so lifelong Dodgers and Lakers fan. Use to follow the Raiders but they're so dysfunctional, I gave up on them. A friend stayed committed to them and after every painful end to the season, he swears he's done w/ them.

They remind me of the Dodgers, who needed to new ownership group to move on from a decade of dysfunction with McCourt. If Davis ever sells, it might be safe to be a fan.

I wish Davis would sell the team. Moving to Vegas was a horrible idea. And yes, every football season is taking years off my life, but I am a die-hard Raider Nation through and through.

 

[bleediteveryday30]

Bleed and I are buddies so I need to encourage him. The Bengals drafted Joe and look what happened. They were the worst team in football before Joe.

I wish we could get a Joe Burrow-type QB. Jarrett Stidham isn't the guy; good backup, but not the guy. Carr needed a new start somewhere else. I just hope we have a good draft and improve that o-line and the defense. You or I could get open and move the chains on the middle of the field all day against that D. I really think they're going to get Brady or Jimmy G.

 

[sheyduke]

Lively's never been known as a guy who could create, but he was expected to feast off of lobs. But we have no one who can reliably penetrate, which really makes Lively pretty useless offensively. What has surprised me is how poor a rebounder he is, given his length, but he's not yet strong enough to get to his spots.

He reminds me of a not quite as talented version of Willie Cauley-Stein at Kentucky, ranked 40th in the 2012 class and who averaged 6 & 7 his first 2 years then blossomed on a stacked team and went 6th in the draft. If Lively had come in ranked on college impact, he would have been ranked in the 40s and we wouldn't be having this convo.

I think within 2-3 years Lively will carve out a decent professional living in the NBA, his measurables are off the charts and with time to get stronger, he could be a real force on D. I hope whichever team drafts him has patience and can help him maximize his potential on offense. That never happened for WCS and he's in the G-League.

Stein played for the Kings for a while and even played more then Bagley . The reason he’s in the gleague is because he’s an old school center . Lively can play all the D he wants but if his offense never comes alive he won’t even play in the gleague . Especially with his low rebounding numbers .

 

[sheyduke]

I’m a panthers fan and there is no answer with us . We might draft a quarter back or rather we need too but there are other areas we need to improve on as well.

 

[christophero]

Bengals need to take care of business today. I could handle them losing to the Bills or Chiefs, but losing today would be a choke job with Lamar Jackson out.

 

[KDSTONE]

Bengals need to take care of business today. I could handle them losing to the Bills or Chiefs, but losing today would be a choke job with Lamar Jackson out.

Just one play away from needing aHeimlich 14 point turnaround fumble at the 1 returned for td

 

[IFaZe]

The dude just sucks. Ain’t much else to it. I’m puzzled, traumatized, bamdazzeleddd how he got a scholarship to play basketball… at Duke.

 

[LobsterGoesPinchPinch]

The dude just sucks. Ain’t much else to it. I’m puzzled, traumatized, bamdazzeleddd how he got a scholarship to play basketball… at Duke.

He was way way overrated. That's not on him. From what I can tell, he's doing his best and being a good teammate.

 

[hart2chesson]

That's not on him. From what I can tell, he's doing his best and being a good teammate.

So is Christian Reeves, who should be getting some of Lively's minutes.

OFC

 

[Liftee]

I think it's possibly both true that Lively was overrated, and also that he will improve as the season progresses. He's just not going to come back for a successful second season like Mark Williams did.

 

[christophero]

Agree its not Lively's fault. If he were a top 100 guy no one would be discussing him as a one and done. Also they said he was a good 3 point shooter and rebounder. He probably was against 6-4 guys. We either need to get some guys back or we need to aggressively pursue high level transfers, or we will be in the same boat next year. Not even top 10 freshman are a sure thing. We also have really bad luck with freshman injuries for whatever reason. Every year. Just off the top of my head Whitehead, AJ, Zion, Cam, Ingram, Winslow, Kyrie, Tatum, Giles (already injured) Bolden.

 

[skysdad]

I just don't see Lively , Whitehead or anyone on this team NBA ready but they are declaring anyway. That's perhaps the main reason they came to Duke plus the strong class coming in and they will do the same thing. I'm mixed up somewhat on my feelings about getting the number one recruiting class every year. It's nice that all this great players want to come to Duke but it's not helping us win any natty's other than 2015. I just wish that one and done would go away and players would have to stay in college for three years like baseball and football. At least I could remember what they look like . With the exception of Zion I can't even remember what they looked like. If I were out somewhere and wearing Duke gear and I saw Frank Jackson, Gary Trent Jr, DJ Stewart, Trevor Keels, Cassius Stanley , RJ Barrett, AJ Griffin, Cameron Reddish or others I probably would walk up to them and say "Wow, you guys must play basketball. Do any of you play in the NBA or play college ball?" I'm ashamed to say that's probably what I would do. Now with my Dujevgear on they all would probably think I'm crazy. But I do know what Mason, Miles and Marshall Plumlee look like. I remember what Lance Thomas and even Josh Hairston looked like. I remember what Quinn Cook looked like. I know what Luke Kennard and Grayson Allen look like and I wonder why? OFC

 

[DukeJim99]

As far as size and athleticism, I have felt this whole season like Lively reminded me some of James Wiseman. Wiseman came in as the #1 high school player in his class but he actually had a track record of scoring in high school and seemed able to do the same in college in the three games he played for Memphis. Selected #2 overall and then... lots of injuries and G-league time.

If I'm Lively and I'm looking at Wiseman's career so far, I don't have a lot of hope for my own NBA future. If Wiseman can't get minutes what does that mean for Lively???

That said, I'm still bullish on Wiseman. He seems like the kind of big who can make it in today's NBA. I think he's athletic enough to switch on D and also has some offensive abilities. It will take a lot of work for Lively to get to the Wiseman level and even if he does, will that be enough?

 

[christophero]

If you were an NBA owner, would you take Lively in the first round? Mark is waaaaay ahead of Lively and Mark isn't even a sure thing to stick around. Lively is a project right now. Sure there's upside, but seems like a lot of risk too. A guy like Bolden might even be ahead of him, and he's in the G League. Someone would have to be really patient.

 

[KDSTONE]

If you were an NBA owner, would you take Lively in the first round? Mark is waaaaay ahead of Lively and Mark isn't even a sure thing to stick around. Lively is a project right now. Sure there's upside, but seems like a lot of risk too. A guy like Bolden might even be ahead of him, and he's in the G League. Someone would have to be really patient.

I wouldn’t. Given his lack of offense, he needs to play with a high motor to offset that. He doesn’t. He’s not quick or explosive. Hopefully he’ll improve but right now I see a career backup. He does nothing well enough to earn minutes in the league right now

 

[christophero]

Latest mock draft has Flip and Whitehead in the mid first round, Lively around 29. Proctor and Mitchell in the latter second round. Should be an interesting May.

 

[Liftee]

Lively would make a perfect end of first round draft choice. A team that can let a guy develop for 2 or 3 years. He's very athletic but doesn't have the skills or the strength to play for a couple years.

The shame is we will lose Proctor and Mitchell probably and with another year in college, they could become NBA players in my opinion. I wouldn't worry about competition from the guys coming in next year-as we see all the time, guys with a year of NCAA competition under their belts are wayyy ahead of incoming high school kids.

 

[ioliva]

Get it straight he was the number FOUR player in the class 🤣

Actually he was

#3 on rivals
#3 on 247
#1 on espn

Dereck Lively - Basketball Recruiting - Player Profiles - ESPN

Learn about Dereck Lively and other recruit player profiles on RecruitingNation.com.

www.espn.com

He’s still the number 1 center though in all rankings so… 😂

But the point stands though. I mean dude never put up crazy stats and barely got on the floor for the summit game? What was scheyer and the rest of the recruiting world watching? Sad thing is he’ll probably leave after one year, drafted in the first round and probably live on the bench for his contract and get buried. He needs a ton of work. I just don’t understand why we go highschool recruits instead of going for play making transfers?

 

[IFaZe]

He was way way overrated. That's not on him. From what I can tell, he's doing his best and being a good teammate.

I almost shed a tear

 

[Liftee]

In looking at the draft lists, about 7 out of the first 10 skipped college or are foreign. Which means the ratings for Lively, Flip and Whitehead were inflated and more like 10-13th.

 

[jamsession3]

I just don't see Lively , Whitehead or anyone on this team NBA ready but they are declaring anyway. That's perhaps the main reason they came to Duke plus the strong class coming in and they will do the same thing. I'm mixed up somewhat on my feelings about getting the number one recruiting class every year. It's nice that all this great players want to come to Duke but it's not helping us win any natty's other than 2015. I just wish that one and done would go away and players would have to stay in college for three years like baseball and football. At least I could remember what they look like . With the exception of Zion I can't even remember what they looked like. If I were out somewhere and wearing Duke gear and I saw Frank Jackson, Gary Trent Jr, DJ Stewart, Trevor Keels, Cassius Stanley , RJ Barrett, AJ Griffin, Cameron Reddish or others I probably would walk up to them and say "Wow, you guys must play basketball. Do any of you play in the NBA or play college ball?" I'm ashamed to say that's probably what I would do. Now with my Dujevgear on they all would probably think I'm crazy. But I do know what Mason, Miles and Marshall Plumlee look like. I remember what Lance Thomas and even Josh Hairston looked like. I remember what Quinn Cook looked like. I know what Luke Kennard and Grayson Allen look like and I wonder why? OFC

Excellent points. Lively is nowhere near ready. He reminds me of Javin D. Lively needs to unpack his bags and give it one more year.

 

[skysdad]

Lively is a good dunker but no better than MP3 and MP3 could shoot the three. 1,000 per cent career three point shooter. OFC

 

[christophero]

Lively would have my undying support and admiration if he came back for year two but I'm not sure that factors into his decision.

 

[Friction.]

If you actually took the time to sit down and watch Dereck Lively against competition and then did the same for Kel’el Ware in high school, I couldn’t believe they had Lively higher. It is still mind-boggling to me.

That said, Lively’s numbers look underwhelming but he is directly affecting the game. He is carrying one of the highest defensive box +/- in college basketball (7.0 versus the highest of 7.5). Way higher than an elite defender like Leaky Black and higher than another one in Marcus Sasser. It is a shame we don’t have the offensive firepower to allow him to flourish more. Also and idgaf if this sounds homerish, he is getting one of the fastest whistles this year. Don’t know how many times he’s gone straight up and got called for a foul.

Also and sort of on topic - My beef with recruiting services is that they are still placing too high a premium on elite athleticism and ridiculous wingspans over actual basketball playing/IQ/shooting. That stuff may have worked 10 years ago but the scales have started to tip. I wouldn’t at all be surprised to see Dusty Stromer be a better player next year than Xavier Booker after watching some of their HS games.