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The Carolina Way VIII

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Dad2ze said:
I'm not sure but I would think if they do, UNC may be on probation when my grandkids are old enough to go to school...and that's in about 30+ years
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On a serious note, how many employees has UNC had to hire on the taxpayer dime to go through all of the administrivia that would have been required to respond to both the NCAA and SACS? Or what about for FOIA requests alone?

Heck, if these people were hired 5 years ago when all of this began, they are getting close to being vested in the State Retirement system and your grandkids are going to be paying for their pension and health benefits. For the rest of their lives.

Think about that for a minute.

And where has the UNC BOG been in all of this?

They might be the most crooked entity in the State of North Carolina, and that is saying a lot.
 
TrentJone said:
On a serious note, how many employees has UNC had to hire on the taxpayer dime to go through all of the administrivia that would have been required to respond to both the NCAA and SACS? Or what about for FOIA requests alone?
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Those employees betch about doing it too. I've linked the story earlier in this thread. Supposedly there's a nominal fee required before unx complies with any specific FOIA request. For the most part that fee has been waived but the employees wanna enforce it. Go figure. Also , unx drags azz on this stuff anyway. They take every second of whatever time-frame they're allotted to comply. And then there's the redactions...


 
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unx lawyer: "Hey , don't blame us. All we did is invent the scam then "cluster" the jocks into it. It's not our fault that the kids actually took part in it." Despicable. And keep this in mind too...





Yes , the holes are blaming the same kids they had diagnosed as AD/LDHD. Gawd , what scumbags....



Former UNC athletes spar with university in federal court

Arguments on Tuesday focus on whether athletes’ lawsuits should proceed

In two suits, former student-athletes say they were denied an education in fake classes

UNC lawyers: Players didn’t object when they were taking the classes

The NCAA contends it has no legal obligation to oversee how classes are taught at its member schools. UNC and the NCAA also said the former athletes had reason to know something was amiss when they took the fake classes, but they didn’t raise objections at that time.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/education/article72635327.html
 
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Posted: Today 3:22 PM Re: Scandal v.7774 -- Kane article pg. 31

CptHindsight
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NOA v1 came before all the SACS ordeal.

UNC admitted academic fraud to SACS, and was put on probation.

Now NCAA will release NOA v2 with the 6th level 1 charge of academic fraud, which dUNCe has admitted on their report to their accreditation agency.

We can only hope that the level 2 charge is testing fraud/improper academic assistance fraud.


Posted: Today 3:43 PM Re: Scandal v.7774 -- Kane article pg. 31

st8dukegrad87
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The McCants case is why the NCAA never charged academic fraud. The below are direct quotes from the NCAA while the case was in state court in motion to dismiss. It is hard to charge UNC-CH with academic fraud when the NCAA is using the below type of arguments in McCants.

The NCAA claimed that it has no responsibility to safeguard “the academic integrity of the courses offered at its member institutions”.

It further declared that it has no role in ensuring “the quality of the education student-athletes receive at member institutions or (in) protect(ing) student-athletes from the independent, voluntary acts of those institutions or their employees.”

The NCAA emphasized that it is far “removed from students’ day-to-day academic experience.”and it contended it has no “direct relationship with student-athletes in the academic realm.”


Posted: Today 4:01 PM Re: Scandal v.7774 -- Kane article pg. 31

PackMan97
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This is why the NCAA never ALLEGED academic fraud. The NCAA has no problem charging a school with academic fraud, problem is they want someone else to make that finding of fact. The NCAA does not want to be in the business of declaring something to be or not to be academic fraud.

SACS on the other hand is all about declaring academic fraud. My guess is that the NCAA will be more than happy to say, you are put on probation by your accrediting agency because they found academic fraud to have occured. We are now charging you for the academic fraud they found.

It is an important difference between the NCAA saying something happened and the NCAA using someone elses findings.


Posted: Today 6:40 PM Re: Scandal v.7774 -- Kane article pg. 31

st8dukegrad87
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Totally understand, I am just saying what the NCAA has directly told me. The NCAA is furious with UNC-CH that they were dragged into this case.
 
IC actually allowed this post to stand...


Posted: Today 10:06 AM Re: Better News NCAA!

rcristal
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As you know, I have been here a few times with predictions over the years. Only when I hear from someone who is connected will I post it. I am four for four to date over a few years. These are not my predictions because I have no way to know. I am not on the inside, not even close.

A while back I was told by a very reliable source the UNC was not expecting any sanctions from The NCAA for Men's Basketball. Rather, Men's Soccer and Women's Soccer and Basketball would be harmed. I stated this in here.

I have just heard from the same source that UNC is now expecting a one year post season ban and a one year loss of two scholarships for Men's Basketball. This person is normally right on the money but we will see.

Go Heels!
 
FWIW...dollars to doughnuts , the 1-year ban and 1-year loss of 2 schollies is ( or will be ) unx's offer to self-sanction. If the holes could walk away with that deal they'd take it in a second. My guess is that the sanctions will be stiffer than that. Another thing...given that unx has lied about damn-near everything ( to damn-near everybody...including their fans! ) I wouldn't be surprised if that post was something of a "trial balloon." They've assured their fans that nothing would happen to Roy and Fed...at all! Now would be a good time to start getting the faithful used to the idea that sanctions to both programs ARE forthcoming. But rather than come out and say , "We're gonna get hammered!" tptb rip off the band-aid much slower. As I said , allow everyone to get used to the pain before the severity of sanctions is finally revealed. Just my 2 cents.
 
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Attorney: NCAA also deserves blame in UNC fraud scandal

An attorney representing two ex-North Carolina athletes says the school and NCAA are both responsible for UNC’s long-running academic fraud scandal that he says denied athletes a quality education.

Michael Hausfeld said Tuesday in a hearing in federal court that athletes who took even one of the irregular courses had been defrauded. Hausfeld is one of the attorneys representing ex-women’s basketball player Rashanda McCants and ex-football player Devon Ramsay, who filed a lawsuit alleging neither defendant did enough to ensure athletes received a quality education.

“The essence of this lawsuit is not about easy classes or friendly professors,” Hausfeld said. “It’s about academic fraud as opposed to academic integrity.”

The school and NCAA are seeking to have the case dismissed, while UNC is also seeking the dismissal of a related lawsuit filed by two other ex-athletes: football player Michael McAdoo and women’s basketball player Kenya McBee. District Court Judge Loretta C. Biggs heard arguments in both cases that seek class-action status during an all-day court session Tuesday, asked questions of the attorneys but didn’t immediately issue a ruling.

UNC’s academic case centers on independent study-style courses that required no class time and one or two research papers in the formerly named African and Afro-American Studies (AFAM) department. Run largely by an office administrator - not a faculty member - the courses featured GPA-boosting grades and significant athlete enrollments across numerous sports, while poor oversight throughout the university allowed them to run unchecked for years.

Both lawsuits - as well as a third by two other ex-UNC athletes and dismissed in state court in February - were filed after a 2014 probe by former U.S. Justice Department official Kenneth Wainstein. That report estimated more than 3,100 students were affected between 1993 and 2011, with athletes making up roughly half the enrollments in problem courses.

In Tuesday’s arguments, attorneys for UNC and the NCAA argued that the lawsuits should be dismissed because a three-year statute of limitations had passed, while UNC also claimed sovereign immunity as a state institution. The athletes’ attorneys have made similar arguments that their clients were steered into the courses by academic counselors to minimize conflicts with sports practice schedules - sometimes handed a predetermined class schedule despite it conflicting with their desired major pursuits - and no indication that the courses were deficient by lacking faculty involvement.

While Hausfeld argued the NCAA had a duty to ensure the quality of education for “vulnerable adolescents” at member institutions, NCAA attorney Stephen D. Brody argued the organization doesn’t venture into the classroom to monitor the quality or rigor of courses.

“That is not a space that is occupied by the NCAA,” Brody told Biggs.

McCants and Ramsay combined to take three problem AFAM courses while majoring in other departments, according to their lawsuit. In Tuesday’s first hearing, attorneys for McAdoo and McBee said their clients had taken one or two of the irregular courses during each semester in school. McBee graduated with a double major, one coming in the AFAM department, while McAdoo withdrew from school to pursue a professional playing career after being ruled permanently ineligible for academic violations in 2010.

Geraldine Sumter, an attorney for McAdoo and McBee, compared the problem courses to “an empty shell.” “This is not a case of educational malpractice,” she said.

“This is a case of failing to educate.”

The academic case has led the NCAA to charge UNC with five violations - including a lack of institutional control - in a still-pending investigation. It also led to trouble for UNC with its accreditation agency, which put the school on a year of probation last June.

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2...runnn&utm_medium=twitter#.Vxbs-jyLT2A.twitter
 
There is no doubt at all that unc cheated. The proof is there no matter how hof coach roy williams or anyone else spins it. Here's the real question in my opinion. Is there anybody that has a voice in what penalties that has the balls to take away national championship banners, vacate wins or even blemish the integrity of Dean Smith and the answer to that is a big old NO. I'm not suggesting the death penalty but a little biddy slap on the non throwing wrist is way too light of a penalty but we will be lucky to get that. I have type two diabetes and I'm not doing everything I need to do to take care of my self. My Dr. says I'm in self denial and she is dead on right. The entire nation of unc which includes the fan base, coaches , administrators and our ACC money making commissioner John Swofford are all in as KellenPatrick puts it self denial. OFC
 
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harttochesson said:
The state flagship in all its banner waving for "transparency" wants the hearing closed????
Lol....
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That very same bastion of "transparency" has no desire for sworn testimony in an open court either...


“I think discovery would be a waste of time and resources in this case,” said Lisa Gilford, an attorney representing UNC.


skysdad said:
Is there anybody that has a voice in what penalties that has the balls to take away national championship banners, vacate wins or even blemish the integrity of Dean Smith and the answer to that is a big old NO.
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The vacating of wins is NOT an NCAA penalty. It's an obligation of the offending school. "Ineligible players" = "Vacated wins." IOW , it's an action unx must take on its own above and beyond whatever sanctions the NCAA hands down. If those those games happen to be ones that produced national titles , well , the banners fall. There's really not much gray area there. As for Deano's integrity? A relic. Thing of the past. It never really existed in the first place anyway. One could argue that the blemish on his legacy ain't "official" ( for lack of a better word ) but it is. For example....there's a minute left in a basketball game. One team is up by 50. The game's not officially over but it's over. A brief glance at the scoreboard confirms it. Same here. Maybe we haven't heard the final whistle yet but we know how it ends. #Paterno'd



 


B. Martin ‏@yibyabby

Prediction: amended Notice of Allegations the NCAA is sending (has sent) to UNC does not contain the phrase "academic fraud." (gut feeling)

Ted Tatos ‏@BlueDevilicious

@yibyabby Does it really have to contain those words if it references the relevant by-laws?

B. David Ridpath ‏@drridpath

@BlueDevilicious @yibyabby no it doesn't have to, but it should

Ted Tatos ‏@BlueDevilicious

@drridpath @yibyabby If not the NOA, then certainly the COI decision should specifically cite the egregious academic fraud at UNC.

B. David Ridpath ‏@drridpath

@BlueDevilicious @yibyabby more likely that will happen


 
One year post-season ban and 2 schollies lost would be absurd. I don't think B. Martin's prediction will come true though. Something like that would be enough for UNC to make the results public if they knew they were not getting in serious trouble. Or at least it would be quickly leaked.
 


If that tweet is anywhere NEAR what's actually in unx's amended NOA....?




It would also destroy whatever PR strategy unx had for releasing it. Cool. By most accounts , they've been served. unx just hasn't redacted it and given it a big ol' smiley face yet. Can't imagine how they handle the situation when they don't control the method and language. Oh...and one more thing...1989?! So much for salvaging someone's legacy.
 
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In their defense, it is still less than a quarter century of cheating. :D
 
Posted: Today 9:11 PM Re: Cheaters Scandal Thread v. 7775

manalishi
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Whirlwind atmosphere the past two days. Let me say that the disdain and disgust that some in Indy feel towards some in CH is extremely.... palpable.

Everyone has seen the multiple coinciding rumors the last few days, from several different (and reputable) fronts, via both social media and in print -- so I'll just let those tidbits guide the speculation.

People need to realize that point-blank stating/repeating certain conversations and information isn't the smartest chess move in any long-running game. Trust is earned, not given. A planned and calculated approach has worked for over five years, so I'm not going to change now. The most pertinent details are going to come out in time. There is fortitude in patience.

And yes, I know that the usual suspects will do their repetitive, tired complaining routine on here. I find a sad, yet perverse, amusement in that, as a matter of fact. Weak-minded fools who haven't done a damn thing during the past half-decade, yet feel the need to spread their pitiful aura of defeatism and nihilism to everyone around them.

There have literally been less than a dozen individuals who have sacrificed and worked the cogs to drive this fight over the past 5+ years... none of whom are the complainers. (I especially enjoy some of the "usual suspects" who post as one person... log off... then post as another. Cute.)

To those people: I owe you nothing. So you will get no specific details that will put in harm's way myself and/or others who have entrusted their information with me; those who need to know, will know. You don't like it? Then the next time a scandal and occasion such as this arises, feel free to take a stand and actually contribute.

Back to Indy: There are proverbial "boots on the ground", gents. And if I had to put their marching cadence to words, I would translate it to something like this...

wrapped in the transparent lies of your desperate situation you expound on imaginary ties expecting us to believe them in the absence of concrete commitment you've all the attention that money can buy not caring that those who still love you are callously thrown to one side

oh narcissus you petulant child, admiring yourself in the curve of my eyes

oh narcissus you angel beguiled, unsated by self you do nothing but die

Ultimately, I'm not a hard man to please. Believe it or not, athletics has never been at the heart of the issues at hand; it has just been the most visible and public pathway. Perhaps that has bolstered the approach of objectivity and patience; who knows. In any case, three years ago myself and a couple of others outlined some basic, specific -- yet attainable and meaningful -- goals that we wanted to see achieved.

They will be met.
 
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Kane...


What to look for when UNC’s new notice of allegations becomes public

NCAA officials say new notice close to being released

First notice charged UNC with giving athletes “special access” to “anomalous” courses

In early April, Roy Williams told ESPN he didn’t think men’s basketball would face any trouble when new notice comes out

It’s been close to a year since the NCAA released its first notice of allegations in UNC-Chapel Hill’s fake class scandal. A lot has happened since then – additional misconduct claims, more information about a key allegation in the notice, and a tournament run by the men’s basketball team that was dashed in the final seconds by a buzzer-beating three-pointer.

NCAA officials say a new notice is close to being released. Here are some key things to look for when it becomes public:

Q: Will it contain the additional allegations brought forward by UNC?

A: UNC stopped the clock on the NCAA’s infractions process in August when it said it foundnew issues involving Jan Boxill and the men’s soccer team. UNC said the allegations involving Boxill, a former faculty leader and academic counselor to women’s basketball players, involve more instances of improper academic help. That could mean more evidence bolstering an alleged unethical conduct infraction against Boxill, as well as the lack of institutional control and impermissible benefits infractions the university faces. The issues with men’s soccer appeared to involve improper recruiting, which had little apparent connection to the fake class scandal.

Q: Will it contain something entirely new?

A: The lengthy delay could mean the NCAA has come across something that wasn’t previously known. During the delay, UNC has released several hundred thousand pages of records that had been provided to Kenneth Wainstein for his investigation. Those documents may lead to more exhibits shoring up the NCAA’s case, or additional allegations against the university and individuals involved in the scandal.

Q: Will the NCAA again choose not to pursue academic misconduct infractions?

A: The first notice charged UNC with giving athletes across many sports, particularly football, men’s basketball and women’s basketball “special access” to “anomalous” courses. In other words, the NCAA made it an “impermissible benefits” case in which athletes received benefits not generally available to the entire student body. Since then, the agency that accredits UNC has described the courses as fraudulent, saying UNC violated “academic integrity” standards. The NCAA has said that it’s the school’s call as to whether academic misconduct occurred, which infers that UNC has declined to do that. But an academic fraud determination by UNC’s accrediting agency might pave the way for the NCAA to make this an academic misconduct case.

Q: Will others be accused of infractions?

A: The first notice only identified Boxill, former African studies department chairman Julius Nyang’oro and his former office manager Deborah Crowder as guilty parties. In the case of Crowder and Nyang’oro, the chargerelated to their noncooperation with the NCAA’s investigation. Wainstein’s report identified several other individuals who were culpable in the scandal, most of them in the Academic Support Program for Student-Athletes. It’s unclear why the NCAA didn’t cite them for unethical conduct.

Q: Will the NCAA again accept UNC’s position as to when it created a limit on independent studies?

A: Last month, the News & Observer reported UNC had little evidence to show the 12-hour limit on independent studies students could take were first placed in 2006. If those limits had been in place for many years earlier, as other evidence shows, the number of athletes who exceeded them through fake classes – and therefore received an impermissible benefit – appears to jump from 10 to 150, according to an NCAA evaluation of athlete transcripts.

Q: Will Coach Roy Williams’ speculation about the new notice bear out?

A: On the eve of the men’s basketball championship, Williams told ESPN that he didn’t think men’s basketball would face any trouble when the new notice is released. “I don’t think we’re going to get hit in any way at all,” Williams said. “Hard to penalize somebody when you have no allegations against them.”

The first notice alleged men’s basketball players received impermissible benefits from the classes. Records indicate they were enrolled in fake classes at the scandal’s outset, and in heavy numbers during the 2004-05 season that ended in a national championship.

Q: Will the new notice reflect enough change to convince some fans the NCAA wasn’t trying to give UNC another opportunity to win a national championship?

A: UNC’s men’s basketball is one of the nation’s marquee programs, and the team came into the season as the favorite to win it all. Fans from other schools speculated the delay was staged to let the team compete for a championship. A new notice that’s insignificantly different from the first is likely to fuel fan concerns that UNC receives special treatment.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/unc-scandal/article73163537.html
 
Posted: Today 7:54 PM Re: Cheaters Scandal Thread v. 7775

st8dukegrad87
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It's hard to say because UNC-CH has been so uncooperative. However, if things progressed on a normal timeline we would have:

New NOA - April 2016

UNC-CH and individuals respond to new NOA - July 2016

COI could hear case in August or October 2016

COI issues report around 8 weeks after hearing - results Oct 2016 or Dec 2016/Jan 2017

UNC-CH or individuals have 15 days after report issue to file appeal

IAP hears appeal fairly quickly. The IAP ruling is final with no further avenue for appeal within the NCAA

However, I am still hearing that this will be finished by end of May from a fairly reliable source. It could be that UNC-CH has the new NOA and they are working on a summary disposition with the COI. The COI can be called to meet outside the normal six times a year.

I personally find it hard to believe that this new NOA with the added Level 1 and the expanded existing Level 1 will finish in May. UNC-CH will never accept the penalties that the NCAA is prepared to deliver to UNC-CH. It could be May or it could be anytime between May and 1Q2017

This new NOA is devastating for UNC-CH. As I said earlier, people are going to be very happy.
 
DevilDJ said:
View embedded media


If that tweet is anywhere NEAR what's actually in unx's amended NOA....?

View embedded media



It would also destroy whatever PR strategy unx had for releasing it. Cool. By most accounts , they've been served. unx just hasn't redacted it and given it a big ol' smiley face yet. Can't imagine how they handle the situation when they don't control the method and language. Oh...and one more thing...1989?! So much for salvaging someone's legacy.
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This goes right along with the theory "the legend" launched AFAM in hopes of competing with the steam engine gathering tremendous momentum in Durham.
 
Something I just realized was that UNC spent all that time delaying the punishment from NCAA by self-reporting. They were doing this because they believed they had another national title coming to them this past basketball season. They didn't win the natty and will now look back and realize that they self-reported sports programs that likely may have gotten off scot-free but will now be punished due to their own greed.
 
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MikeD2891 said:
Something I just realized was that UNC spent all that time delaying the punishment from NCAA by self-reporting. They were doing this because they believed they had another national title coming to them this past basketball season. They didn't win the natty and will now look back and realize that they self-reported sports programs that likely may have gotten off scot-free but will now be punished due to their own greed.
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or maybe, as some have asserted, that the self reporting was insignificant in light of the what the NCAA had discovered from the document dump and other sources which came to light after release of the 1st NOA.......but was allowed as a smoke screen to gain time to pursue these newly discovered leads.
 
st8dukegrad87 is a credible poster on PP and he had this to say about the delay tactic...

"UNC-cH made a horrible error in judgement by delaying the process to try and win the MBB championship. Things are much worse for them now than they were before the delay tactic."

It doesn't sound good at all for the Cheaters. If I were one of them I would be scared to death right now.
 
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Some of the Carolina faithful on Twitter are starting to get the news. Homer glasses are breaking, and they're officially a little scared because they've been flat out lied to for months/years. I'm not one to fully believe random Internet people, but the PP dudes have had damn good track records. Who hasn't? ANY and EVERY UNC source it seems.

Whenever Carolina gets the balls to release the new NOA, the Internet will be fun that day.
 
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LetsGoDukies said:
st8dukegrad87 is a credible poster on PP and he had this to say about the delay tactic...

"UNC-cH made a horrible error in judgement by delaying the process to try and win the MBB championship. Things are much worse for them now than they were before the delay tactic."

It doesn't sound good at all for the Cheaters. If I were one of them I would be scared to death right now.
Click to expand...

Karma? :)
 
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zJMc09 said:
Some of the Carolina faithful on Twitter are starting to get the news.
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And some are just flat-out disappearing. "Dantes" has been virtually guaranteeing that the holes would get an amended NOA that cleared football and men's basketball of any wrong-doing. Vamoosh. Lol...

qRknibXU.jpg:large



GMeZkDMa.jpg:large
 
Here we go. This guy's leaking parts of unx's just-received NOA. What happens when the holes can't redact all the damning info before releasing a sanitized version of what they've been accused of? Heads in Chapel Hill are exploding. Lulz. If any of this is anywhere NEAR the truth? "Turn out the lights...the party's over..."







 
Ok...here's what seems to be lifted passages. "Academic fraud?" That would suggest that the NCAA is penalizing unx based , in part , on SACS' findings. "Findings" , btw , where unx AGREED with the allegations of academic fraud. This could get ugly...







 
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