So... 2010 vs 2015

[TheDude1]

Was thinking about this last night, and damn, it is HARD. Which team wins, if they go up against each other in their national title game?

2010

Starters:

Jon Scheyer (sr) 18 pts, 4 rebounds, 5 assists 37 MPG
Kyle Singler (jr) 18 pts, 7 rebounds, 2 assists 36 MPG
Nolan Smith (jr) 17 pts, 7 rebounds, 3 assists 36 MPG
Lance Thomas (sr) 5 pts, 5 boards, 1 assist 25 MPG
Brian Zoubek (sr) 6 pts, 8 rebounds, 1 assist 19 MPG

Bench (top 3 by minutes)

Miles Plumlee (so) 5 pts, 5 boards 16 MPG
Andre Dawkins (fr) 4 pts, 1 board 13 MPG
Mason Plumlee (fr) 4 pts, 3 boards, 1 assist 14 MPG


2015

Starters:

Tyus Jones (fr) 12 pts, 4 reb, 6 ast 35 MPG
Quinn Cook (sr) 15 pts, 3 reb, 3 ast 38 MPG
Justise Winslow (fr) 13 pts, 7 reb, 2 ast 31 MPG
Amile Jefferson (jr) 6 pts, 6 reb, 1 ast 22 MPG
Jahlil Okafor (fr) 17 pts, 9 reb, 1 ast 32 MPG

Bench (top 3 by minutes) (not counting Sheed)

Matt Jones 6 pts, 2 reb, 1 ast 22 MPG
Grayson Allen 4 pts, 1 reb 9 MPG
Marshall Plumlee 2 pts, 2 reb 9 MPG


SO... position vs position, IMHO...


Scheyer > Jones
Smith > Cook
Singler > Winslow
Thomas > Jefferson
Zoubek << Okafor

Miles > Marshall
Dawkins < Jones
Mason = Grayson

Am I crazy that I think 2010 would win? They were tough as HELL... the Three Ss I think are better than their equivalents (Quinn, Justice, and Tyus) at that stage (junior Kyle as a beast, although jesus, Tyus was just cold.) I know it feels odd to put Lance ahead of Amile, but Lance is STILL playing in the league. And while I know they were young, I can't help but think that having Miles and Mason, playing along with the man-mountain Brian Zoubek, would be enough to at least be a pain in the ass for Jah.

So what say you? Cut and paste!



Scheyer _ Jones
Smith _ Cook
Singler _ Winslow
Thomas _ Jefferson
Zoubek _ Okafor

Miles _ Marshall
Dawkins _ Jones
Mason _ Grayson

 

[jwill133]

2015 started Jones when we made our run and Winslow slid to the 4.
So 2015 is better at the 4 and 5 positions.

I think 2010 was obviously better on a consistent basis and never really gave any scratch your head moments.

However, when the 2015 team was humming, they reached a level that the 2010 team couldn’t reach. 2010 never had a win as impressive as the 2015 road wins against Wisconsin or Virginia IMO.

I’d make 2010 2.5 point favorites, but if the 2015 team plays at their peak, they win comfortably.

 

[TheDude1]

I think 2010 was obviously better on a consistent basis and never really gave any scratch your head moments.

However, when the 2015 team was humming, they reached a level that the 2010 team couldn’t reach. 2010 never had a win as impressive as the 2015 road wins against Wisconsin or Virginia IMO.

I’d make 2010 2.5 point favorites, but if the 2015 team plays like they did against MSU in the final four, they win comfortably.

Hey, gimme your PG _ PG breakdown? I want to see if people agree or disagree about the specific comparisons

 

[jwill133]

Hey, gimme your PG _ PG breakdown? I want to see if people agree or disagree about the specific comparisons

I’d consider this a big game and not a game the first week in January.

Scheyer = Jones
Smith >Cook
Singler >>Jones
Thomas < Winslow
Zoubek<<Okafor

Miles > Marshall
Dawkins <Grayson
Mason< Amile

I guess my rankings say I lean 2015, by a smidge.

 

[Canadian Dukie]

I know 2015 won with all those freshmen,but I like 2010 in this one,nothing like a bunch of upper classmen in crunch time..especially the 3 S'es..those 3 were dynamite

 

[BOOGIEMAN1914]

2010 was more gratifying and 2015 was more fun

 

[BlackKnightNut]

2010 experience over 2015 talent. They were better than the sum of their parts as a team.

 

[pisgah101]

Give me 2010 that was the most rewarding team I’ve watched.
Scheyer= Jones
Nolan>Cook
Singler>Jones
Thomas<Winslow
Zoo<Oak

I have a tie by that margin but Nolan, Jon, Kingler I just can’t bet against.

 

[Mac9192]

Man what a tough one. It's like asking which is better, chocolate or vanilla ice cream.

All I know for sure is both brought banners back with them to Durham.

 

[Quavarius]

2015 started Jones when we made our run and Winslow slid to the 4.
So 2015 is better at the 4 and 5 positions.

I think 2010 was obviously better on a consistent basis and never really gave any scratch your head moments.

However, when the 2015 team was humming, they reached a level that the 2010 team couldn’t reach. 2010 never had a win as impressive as the 2015 road wins against Wisconsin or Virginia IMO.

I’d make 2010 2.5 point favorites, but if the 2015 team plays at their peak, they win comfortably.

2015 won:

@Wisconsin
@Louisville
@Virginia
@Syracuse
@UNC

Impressive road wins for such a young group.

I’m taking 2015. That team had huge balls!

 

[skysdad]

It's so close. That 2010 team was so special. No one gave them a chance. The 2015 team was so talented and freshman led. I voted for 2015 with hesitation. OFC

 

[DukefanKY]

Man, this is a really tough call for me.
I just keep thinking the veteran leadership of John and Nolan would go a long way, and for some reason, playing this game in my mind, Nolan Smith keeps taking over the game....

 

[PixelDevil]

2010 just had it man, that upper classmen leadership. The three S’s. I’d have trouble picking anyone over them tbh.

 

[DBM0828]

Scheyer > Jones
Smith > Cook
Singler > Winslow
Thomas <Jefferson
Zoubek << Okafor

Miles <Marshall
Dawkins - Jones
Mason > Grayson

2010 was to experience to be beat by the 2015 team. That's why I say they win.

 

[Quavarius]

That 2015 team beat a lot of experienced teams in a year that was pretty stacked.

Still love the 2010 team because they shut down the “alarmingly unathletic” haters that season!

 

[jwill133]

Both teams swept UNC.

 

[JohnstonCDevil]

Have to go with 2010 because of experience. That team had been through many wars!!!
OFC

 

[TheDude1]

Scheyer > Jones
Smith > Cook
Singler > Winslow
Thomas <Jefferson
Zoubek << Okafor

Miles <Marshall
Dawkins - Jones
Mason > Grayson

2010 was to experience to be beat by the 2015 team. That's why I say they win.

I have to question two of these...

First, 2015 Marshall over 2010 Miles?
Second, 2015 Amile over 2010 Lance? I sort of get it... but Lance has been in the NBA for years... Amile, not so much.

 

[DiehardDukeFan4Life]

This is a tough choice. While trying to decide, I broke it down into three factors and I still can’t decide.
Experience- pretty significant edge 2010
PPG slight edge 2010
Elite Talent-pretty significant edge 2015

 

[DBM0828]

I have to question two of these...

First, 2015 Marshall over 2010 Miles?
Second, 2015 Amile over 2010 Lance? I sort of get it... but Lance has been in the NBA for years... Amile, not so much.

2015 Amile was the savior of the Championship game IMO. If he doesn't play Frank the way he did, we dont win. Thomas was solid, but I dont think he was as big a factor for winning than Amile was. Yes, hes in the NBA but he has added way more to his game since college. He wasnt nearly this good in college.

Marshall vs Miles is a toss up TBH. Both played the backup role.

 

[Mac9192]

2015 Amile was the savior of the Championship game IMO. If he doesn't play Frank the way he did, we dont win. Thomas was solid, but I dont think he was as big a factor for winning than Amile was. Yes, hes in the NBA but he has added way more to his game since college. He wasnt nearly this good in college.

Marshall vs Miles is a toss up TBH. Both played the backup role.

Yeah you can't take what a guy is doing in the nba and compare it to his college time. If that's the case, Mason and Miles get the edge vs Okafor. We know that's not true, especially since we're talking about their time at Duke.

Every player on both teams understood their roles.

 

[DBM0828]

Yeah you can't take what a guy is doing in the nba and compare it to his college time. If that's the case, Mason and Miles get the edge vs Okafor. We know that's not true, especially since we're talking about their time at Duke.

Every player on both teams understood their roles.

I'm saying Amile was Better than Thomas.

 

[Mac9192]

I'm saying Amile was Better than Thomas.

I say that's a debate we don't need to have. Both were huge in their roles. We needed both to win.

 

[Laettshow]

Tyus would not let the 2010 team beat them. He was one of the best clutch players I have ever watched, that never got rattled no matter the situation. So 2015 gets my vote.

 

[bullcity gamer]

Tyus was such a beast that loved Duke!!!! I don’t blame him for being one and done, because his stock would have more than likely never gone any higher, but I am a firm believer if he stays 3-4 years at Duke, Duke gets to the Final 4 3-4 times during his time there. Hopefully Tre has the same confidence Tyus has.

 

[TheDude1]

Tyus would not let the 2010 team beat them. He was one of the best clutch players I have ever watched, that never got rattled no matter the situation. So 2015 gets my vote.

Love Tyus. I think he is firmly my favorite Duke player of the OAD era, and I would honestly say among my favorites ever.

Still... man. Jon? Nolan? Kyle as a junior, when he was shooting 40% from three, pulling down seven rebounds a game, and diving into the stands after balls?

I think 2010 ended up being the toughest Duke team of all, with all due respect to the Laettner/Davis/Hurley team and Nate James and CWell.

Man. Would love to see that game.

 

[TheDude1]

And the Lance vs Amile debate I think is actually sort of an all time underrated slugfest.

Lance is among maybe the most under appreciated players in Duke history, when it comes down to it. Lance knew his role was to play D and get boards and play more D. And damn... he did it so... quietly? He was also so vocal back there, directing traffic. Even at the end people weren’t sure if he would play in the league... a lot thought not... but K was like “Lance Thomas is a hell of a pro.” Turns out... yeah. Who would have guessed it? Definite spot on the all time underappreciated team.

But Amile... man. He BLOSSOMED. By the end... That insane wingspan, that soft touch, slithering with the ball, the incredible rebounding, the fast feet and good D, and like Lance a vocal part of the defense. Even developed a bit of a shot in the second half of his career. I think Amile really stands out as having shown such great improvement. Great Dukie with the best all time Duke triple take at a girl.

Yeah... two long, slender dudes... athletic, and a perfect fit at Duke... all time under appreciated PF vs a veteran smooth PF...what a great debate to get to have.

 

[timo0402]

Here’s how I’d decide on this. I agree with everyone saying that that 2010 team was the most satisfying championship we have had since ‘91. We needed that, badly as a program. It also catapulted K to rarified air even if he was already there. However, i voted for 2015 for one reason. I said that year and still believe it, when we were at our best there was no team that could beat us. For that reason, i went 2015.

 

[dukedevilz]

If you put any value in the KenPom rankings, the only national title teams with a better efficiency margin than the 2010 Duke team were '08 Kansas and '18 Villanova. Rankings started in 2002, FWIW.

I agree with the sentiment that '15 team had some very, very quality road wins. But can anyone tell me of a more impressive display of teamwork than the dismantling of the West Virginia team in the 2010 Final Four? West Virginia had won 10 games in a row and looked liked the hottest team in the country heading into that game. They ran into a buzzsaw when they faced us. 78-57.

 

[DukeDenver]

No one on either team was better than the version of Tyus from Feb., March, and April of 2015. He made all the right plays.

 

[DukefanKY]

If you put any value in the KenPom rankings, the only national title teams with a better efficiency margin than the 2010 Duke team were '08 Kansas and '18 Villanova. Rankings started in 2002, FWIW.

I agree with the sentiment that '15 team had some very, very quality road wins. But can anyone tell me of a more impressive display of teamwork than the dismantling of the West Virginia team in the 2010 Final Four? West Virginia had won 10 games in a row and looked liked the hottest team in the country heading into that game. They ran into a buzzsaw when they faced us. 78-57.

Agreed......that 2010 had experience and toughness that made them very difficult to handle when they were on. I thought they left everything they had on the floor every single game

 

[bullcity gamer]

If you put any value in the KenPom rankings, the only national title teams with a better efficiency margin than the 2010 Duke team were '08 Kansas and '18 Villanova. Rankings started in 2002, FWIW.

I agree with the sentiment that '15 team had some very, very quality road wins. But can anyone tell me of a more impressive display of teamwork than the dismantling of the West Virginia team in the 2010 Final Four? West Virginia had won 10 games in a row and looked liked the hottest team in the country heading into that game. They ran into a buzzsaw when they faced us. 78-57.

That was a fantastic display of teamwork.

 

[bullcity gamer]

No one on either team was better than the version of Tyus from Feb., March, and April of 2015. He made all the right plays.

Agree, I will add Winslow was one of the best players in College Basketball during the months of March and April. Hoping Tyus gets moved from Minnesota, because Thibs is so stubborn on playing his former Bulls and giving some of Tyus’ minutes to Rose.

 

[TheDude1]

There are a number of posts in here that I wanted to "like" except that they ended with "I pick 2015" which I can't like, because I disagree. It's causing me consternation.

 

[jwill133]

I think a 7 game series ultimately always proves who the best team is. I think 2010 would win that series 4-3.
However, again, when 2015 was clicking, their talent and ceiling was much higher than the 2010 bunch. So if 2015 catches lightning in a bottle, forget about it, it's over.

2015 Duke beat Wisconsin twice. IMO that Wisconsin team had a lot of similarities to the 2010 Duke team (and no, I'm just saying that because both teams had white guys galore). They were both well-oiled machines with veteran leadership everywhere.
2010 Duke- 121 Adj O (1), 87.7 Adj D (5)
2015 Wisonsin- 129 Adj 0 (1 and one of the most efficient offenses ever!), 95.2 Adj D (35)

Essentially 2015 Wisconsin was a better offense than 2010 Duke, and a worse defense. Both teams style's very similar though.


But hey, what do I know, I only like Duke for the future NBA players we have.............

 

[dukiejay]

If the game was close at the end, I’d like my chances if Tyus was on my team. Also, seeing how Jahlil’s NBA career has panned out has, IMO, made some forget how dominant he was at times. He was still the ACC POY....and he carried us in sequences that season.

The sentimental pick is certainly 2010. And I don’t mean that to come across as disparaging. They were just a group of grizzled veterans who played on some teams that, frankly, weren’t all that good. We watched their progression over multiple years; whereas, the progression in 2015 happened over just a few months.

 

[GTHC_ GTH!]

2015 was better athletically and talent wise. 2010 was seniors and juniors. I usually side with the talent