Should They Stay Or Should They Go Now?

[skysdad]

Whoever leaves Duke by transfer , NBA , G- league or overseas I hope they respect Duke enough to make up their minds quickly so we can be competitive in the transfer portal. That has become just as big as high school recruiting. In other words with all due respect crap or get of the toilet. OFC

 

[denverexpat]

Lively should go get paid. For him and his mom. They deserve it. Glad I watched that video.

Im rooting for the kid too but really dont understand how he can be valued so high by the NBA...help me out....he didnt take a shot in our loss to UT and has no real post game or short range game....imo he would benefit from another year in college to develop vs playing in Idaho or North Dakota G league...this is what makes me smh with college players going pro early

 

[9dukejames]

Because of potential which I believe comes into more play with bigs than others. He has outstanding height, length and athletic ability. He oozes defensive potential. A team will take him in the first round and be patient developing sone offense with him.

 

[christophero]

Whoever leaves Duke by transfer , NBA , G- league or overseas I hope they respect Duke enough to make up their minds quickly so we can be competitive in the transfer portal. That has become just as big as high school recruiting. In other words with all due respect crap or get of the toilet. OFC

This should be the thread title ha.

 

[JimboSlice00]

I think everyone here can agree Dariq seems like a good kid, and we as Duke fans want to see him do well. He will be a rich young man in about 3 months.

However, it's okay to say someone just wasn't that good and came in with alot of expectations that he fell very short of. These kids do not rank themselves in terms of recruiting, but he was a MAJOR disappointment for us this year. I know people will say injuries and potential, but he simply didn't produce while at Duke and it's best both sides move on.

 

[denverexpat]

Because of potential which I believe comes into more play with bigs than others. He has outstanding height, length and athletic ability. He oozes defensive potential. A team will take him in the first round and be patient developing sone offense with him.

"there is no greater burden in life than potential" - Charlie Brown....one of my all time favorite quotes! And I hear the argument that he is athletically gifted....but as a GM or coach...in the 2-3 yrs its going to take to craft his game ( could be wrong) I would think that there would be more game ready centers/big guys you can draft or contract during that time especially since the NBA is now a world game...and thats where i scratch my head on NBA decisions to draft on potential

 

[NCirishman]

Im rooting for the kid too but really dont understand how he can be valued so high by the NBA...help me out....he didnt take a shot in our loss to UT and has no real post game or short range game....imo he would benefit from another year in college to develop vs playing in Idaho or North Dakota G league...this is what makes me smh with college players going pro early

Lively is a right handed Tyson Chandler.

Really good defense, good passer, good athlete, a leader with limited offense.

They’re both rare breeds and some may laugh but Lively has a chance to get a couple gold medals down the road as well, IF the HC sees the qualities he possesses.

 

[sheyduke]

Lively needs a pass first pg to thrive on his offensive style . He will do good in the NBA .

 

[jamsession3]

None of these kids are ready to play in league right now. I do not criticize their decisions, but I do realize they can't help a team right now.

 

[Fourteen44]

I think everyone here can agree Dariq seems like a good kid, and we as Duke fans want to see him do well. He will be a rich young man in about 3 months.

However, it's okay to say someone just wasn't that good and came in with alot of expectations that he fell very short of. These kids do not rank themselves in terms of recruiting, but he was a MAJOR disappointment for us this year. I know people will say injuries and potential, but he simply didn't produce while at Duke and it's best both sides move on.

Nailed it.

He’s a great kid but being a “star” opens one up to critique. He certainly has been a bit of a bust if he leaves (which he will).

 

[christophero]

Nailed it.

He’s a great kid but being a “star” opens one up to critique. He certainly has been a bit of a bust if he leaves (which he will).

That's a good point. If you think of yourself as a lottery guy, should suddenly being asked to start be that much of a shock? That wont happen in the NBA? I wouldn't say he was a bust, just a letdown. And that is the frustration with most OADs. We never really see the whole package. Our younger teams can out talent most teams, but when the talent level is close late in the tournament it seems our youth shows.

 

[Laettner]

My only wish is that Coach Scheyer stops recruiting entire rosters of kids who only plan on staying at Duke from July-March. Duke is not a basketball program anymore, it’s a nine month NBA prep academy.

Players have every right to make money and I support that but our staff doesn’t have to recruits HS kids who have no interest staying more than nine months.

God forbid we bring in some 4 stars and develop players.

 

[christophero]

Agreed. We get the best players, but many for just 9 months. Proctor and Mitchell should be 2 year guys in theory.

 

[youngman42]

In terms of the most recent rankings, the only 1st round picks from Duke are Filipowski, Lively, and Whitehead.

Only 1st round picks get guaranteed contracts. Otherwise, a 2nd rounder or free agent has to make the team to get an NBA deal.

Last I saw, the G-league pays $40,500 (with some players getting a $50k bonus). While one can get used to NBA speed a bit faster in the G-league I don't see any monetary advantage to going that route. Certainly not a life-style advantage either.

Unless Duke players aren't getting much in NIL I don't see any reason why a kid like Proctor would leave - if he's not sniffing the 1st round of the NBA draft.

But I also don't see how Filipowski or Lively could possibly afford to stay if it looks like they will be 1st round draft picks. Same with Whitehead thought he may be a bit more uncertain in terms of getting drafted in round 1.

 

[Laettner]

In terms of the most recent rankings, the only 1st round picks from Duke are Filipowski, Lively, and Whitehead.

Only 1st round picks get guaranteed contracts. Otherwise, a 2nd rounder or free agent has to make the team to get an NBA deal.

Last I saw, the G-league pays $40,500 (with some players getting a $50k bonus). While one can get used to NBA speed a bit faster in the G-league I don't see any monetary advantage to going that route. Certainly not a life-style advantage either.

Unless Duke players aren't getting much in NIL I don't see any reason why a kid like Proctor would leave - if he's not sniffing the 1st round of the NBA draft.

But I also don't see how Filipowski or Lively could possibly afford to stay if it looks like they will be 1st round draft picks. Same with Whitehead thought he may be a bit more uncertain in terms of getting drafted in round 1.

Attended Knicks G-league game with Keels playing. There are more fans at my sons HS games than these minor league contests. Can’t imagine going from Duke to that.

If you get two way contact that’s great but Duke NIL deal has got to be more than G-league salary.

 

[christophero]

Also if you have an agent he gets a cut of your G League salary. A lot of guys who get 2 way deals vanish or never get called up but it is better than nothing.

 

[Friction.]

Attended Knicks G-league game with Keels playing. There are more fans at my sons HS games than these minor league contests. Can’t imagine going from Duke to that.

If you get two way contact that’s great but Duke NIL deal has got to be more than G-league salary.

I agree. I'm not up to speed as much on the G-league/NIL but with NIL, Duke should really benefit in these types of situations going forward whereas we never did in the past. Making $40K or so in the hopes of getting a call-up or two-way vs. NIL @ Duke with almost 3M live views on a single game? If I had to guess maybe 9-10M live TV views in a single season? As I say that, Keels left so I obviously am not up to speed here. Hoping there's a huge ROI on hiring Baker to that new position.

EDIT: scratch that, forgot Keels got drafted late 2nd rnd. Can't even remember stuff from a year ago

 

[Liftee]

The way Flip got pummeled this year I can see where he wouldn't want to come back for more.

I guess it depends on whether he likes the college experience and wants to wait one more year before he heads off to see if he can compete in the NBA.

 

[christophero]

Keels went around 10th in the second round. But he was lucky. He could have slid further. I just think he didn't want to come back. It's his life.

 

[jamsession3]

Attended Knicks G-league game with Keels playing. There are more fans at my sons HS games than these minor league contests. Can’t imagine going from Duke to that.

If you get two way contact that’s great but Duke NIL deal has got to be more than G-league salary.

This is why I do not understand the legitimacy in the so 'G - League Ignite' team. If these kids want to go pro, don't cover them. Let them be amongst the grown men.

 

[jamsession3]

Keels went around 10th in the second round. But he was lucky. He could have slid further. I just think he didn't want to come back. It's his life.

He made a bad decision. If he returned some of those close games go to Duke. I would wonder about chemistry. His return would've took pressure off the expectations of Mitchell and Whitehead.

 

[dukecorey]

If Keels came back there would of been no Proctor and he would of stayed in his original class also.

 

[BOOGIEMAN1914]

Because of potential which I believe comes into more play with bigs than others. He has outstanding height, length and athletic ability. He oozes defensive potential. A team will take him in the first round and be patient developing sone offense with him.

Clint Capela-ish???

 

[BOOGIEMAN1914]

If Keels came back there would of been no Proctor and he would of stayed in his original class also.

maybe no proctor?...or maybe proctor still and no grandison

 

[christophero]

Proctor and Mitchell will be a good test. If they both leave, something will need to change, and I will just assume all our top 30 guys have no interest in a second year at Duke. I mean if being manhandled by Tennessee in the first weekend is good enough for them why should I bother being invested.

 

[youngman42]

Proctor and Mitchell will be a good test. If they both leave, something will need to change, and I will just assume all our top 30 guys have no interest in a second year at Duke. I mean if being manhandled by Tennessee in the first weekend is good enough for them why should I bother being invested.

Agreed. I see no reason why we should recruit those guys (and likely pay them large NIL deals) if they are only staying one year. I mean, if a guy is a once in a decade talent, and wants to come to Duke, sure. But otherwise, I'd be fine with players in the 25-75 range and plan for them to stay 2-3-4 years and also recruit from the transfer portal to fill in gaps.

Neither Scheyer, nor Duke Basketball, nor supporting fans are served well to recruit 3-4 OAD players who are going to get beat up come NCAA tourney time and fail because they are boys going against men 3-4 years older, stronger and more developed, and just tougher physically and mentally.

 

[Laettner]

I mean if being manhandled by Tennessee in the first weekend is good enough for them why should I bother being invested.

Bingo!

 

[bleediteveryday30]

This should be the thread title ha.

Should I change it to shit or get off the pot?

 

[sheyduke]

Attended Knicks G-league game with Keels playing. There are more fans at my sons HS games than these minor league contests. Can’t imagine going from Duke to that.

If you get two way contact that’s great but Duke NIL deal has got to be more than G-league salary.

Keels did not sign a gleague contract for the last time . He signed an NBA contract with a team full of guards which meant as a rookie he would spend a lot of time in the gleague for development instead of just in practice . Mark Williams spent a lot of the season in the gleague so he wouldn’t sit on a bench doing nothing .
Keels is making 3 million and change on his Knicks contract over two years with a player option . Y’all look at the gleague very wrong . Just because your playing there does not mean your on a two way contract .

 

[sheyduke]

He made a bad decision. If he returned some of those close games go to Duke. I would wonder about chemistry. His return would've took pressure off the expectations of Mitchell and Whitehead.

But would he have made close to Four million in NIL money and not had to attend class. He is on an actual NBA roster with the guard heavy knicks .

 

[jamsession3]

Keels did not sign a gleague contract for the last time . He signed an NBA contract with a team full of guards which meant as a rookie he would spend a lot of time in the gleague for development instead of just in practice . Mark Williams spent a lot of the season in the gleague so he wouldn’t sit on a bench doing nothing .
Keels is making 3 million and change on his Knicks contract over two years with a player option . Y’all look at the gleague very wrong . Just because your playing there does not mean your on a two way contract .

Everyone does not get a two - way contract. Keels was fortunate.

 

[jamsession3]

Agreed. I see no reason why we should recruit those guys (and likely pay them large NIL deals) if they are only staying one year. I mean, if a guy is a once in a decade talent, and wants to come to Duke, sure. But otherwise, I'd be fine with players in the 25-75 range and plan for them to stay 2-3-4 years and also recruit from the transfer portal to fill in gaps.

Neither Scheyer, nor Duke Basketball, nor supporting fans are served well to recruit 3-4 OAD players who are going to get beat up come NCAA tourney time and fail because they are boys going against men 3-4 years older, stronger and more developed, and just tougher physically and mentally.

This is the Gospel Youngman42.

 

[sheyduke]

Everyone does not get a two - way contract. Keels was fortunate.

He’s not on one . Most the players drafted late first early second sign their team contract and get sent to the gleague for development. They still practice with the team but the gleague is where they get their experience during the season due to an over crowded roster .
Read an article on my news app the other day about NIL and top ranked players and how a lot of kids after playing their first year of college ball look at the situation more like a business with classes so why not just turn pro and skip the classes like some of the off programs like over time elite . When you treat a kid like he’s grown he’s going to make grown up decisions on his behalf and NIL won’t matter .

 

[Devilinside]

I do not know what Duke guys are getting via NIL, but I’d assume that it’s more than a G-League or non guaranteed rookie contract. However, keep in mind that some 2nd round picks do get guaranteed deals (Jackson, Trent JR from Duke examples) so really picks 1-40 or 1-35 depending on the draft it makes sense to be a pro over college, outside of that I wish everyone returned for the sake of the college game.

What is annoying is when someone says about a guy who is clearly going to go in the 1st round “he isn’t ready for the NBA.” Like what do you mean????? No rookie comes into the league and is immediately a “winning player.” Lebron didn’t get his team to the playoffs until year 3. So in a way, yes, no one is ready to contribute to being a winning player. But teams and GM’s know that.

GM’s do not care what a guys production was in college (for the most part.) They care about what a guy will look like 3-5 years down the road. Why is that? Because it allows them to keep their job as GM longer if they are able to point to this project they are currently overseeing.
AJ Griffin averaged 10.5 ppg at Duke and is averaging 9 ppg as a rookie for the Hawks. He was someone that the average fan probably viewed as “not ready.” But scoring is up and numbers aren’t that hard to put up in the current NBA. You just have to be quick and athletic enough to guard on the perimeter and you will be fine.

So please: I know Lively and Whitehead weren’t great this year for us. But they will go in the first round and it will be the right decision for them to do so. I know they aren’t ready for the NBA, but nobody in college is ready to contribute to winning against grown men.

Whitehead is physically OK for the NBA. Not sure about Lively. Flip is an enigma. Not much demand for an inconsistent 7' SG or SF who turns the ball over with frequency. He needs anoth year to improve his play down low. OFC

 

[JimboSlice00]

It's the age old debate being a Duke fan. Would I prefer to see us recruit differently and have kids stay 2 or 3 years, or hit the transfer portal for more experience? Of course and it sounds like Jon is going that way.

However, you NEVER turn down a top 10 type of talent, even knowing they will only stay one year. If the talent wants to come to Durham, I sure as sh*t wouldn't ever say no.

 

[jamsession3]

Whitehead is physically OK for the NBA. Not sure about Lively. Flip is an enigma. Not much demand for an inconsistent 7' SG or SF who turns the ball over with frequency. He needs anoth year to improve his play down low. OFC

Lively and Flip need to lock themselves in the weight room.

 

[jamsession3]

Lively and Flip need to lock themselves in the weight room.

Whitehead needs to make sure he does not repeat the mistake C. Stanley did. Improve your game and acknowledge what you need to survive in the NBA.

 

[christophero]

No one is saying to turn down Zion or Banchero. It is the other guys that drive me nuts, the ones who never put it all together and leave anyway. And it drives upperclassmen away and scares away elite transfers. Jon has admitted it is not sustainable.

 

[DanTheDukeFan1982II]

No one is saying to turn down Zion or Banchero. It is the other guys that drive me nuts, the ones who never put it all together and leave anyway. And it drives upperclassmen away and scares away elite transfers.

I agree. But you don’t know these guys are going to be generational talents when recruiting them. Remember, Zion was ranked behind RJ, Cam, and Nas Little (lol yikes.) And by the time you know they will truly be game changers, it will be way too late in the game to land that recruit. Banchero was ranked behind Patrick Baldwin for most of HS.

I think sticking with only top 10 guys and then merging in multi year guys is the way to go. We definitely have an over 50% success rate of top 10 guys being really good. Whitehead didn’t pan out, Lively took forever but the last month he changed everything. Chase Jeter was a massive bust. But mostly all our elite top 10 guys are dominant. It’s the lower tier 5 star guys who are OAD who kill us: Keels, Stanley, Steward, hopefully NOT Proctor or Mitchell.

 

[Mac9192]

A part of me thinks we're (the fans) just screwed. Duke recruited Josiah James. According to 247, he was the 22nd rated player in the country. He's now a senior. Had he gone to Duke, I'd bet the farm he wouldn't have seen his senior season. He's a decent college player.

What has been happening at Duke has to change. I don't know if it will, and I don't have a good solution either.