You have to play tough for 40 min against good teams. Not 33. Not 20.
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- Thread starter timo0402
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Listening to it.. good takes by mainly you some ok by hokie haha. Thanks for posting
Good pod cast again Timo.
Couple of things .
One , anyone thinking Jon isn’t the right guy for Duke is dead wrong . The game has changed . How you navigate these five star recruits is imperative. Now they can simply just leave and go play somewhere else and not have to sit out .
Second , who is this teams alpha? Is it Flip is it Proctor , is it Roach ? This is why I’m looking forward to Evans getting on campus . He’s got that swagger to the point like he’s already embracing for the rivalry . I’m not sure if in either game , this current team completely bought into the rivalry . I get every team is different but like you I called the game over in the first four minutes . UNC just out played and played harder then Duke .
Couple of things .
One , anyone thinking Jon isn’t the right guy for Duke is dead wrong . The game has changed . How you navigate these five star recruits is imperative. Now they can simply just leave and go play somewhere else and not have to sit out .
Second , who is this teams alpha? Is it Flip is it Proctor , is it Roach ? This is why I’m looking forward to Evans getting on campus . He’s got that swagger to the point like he’s already embracing for the rivalry . I’m not sure if in either game , this current team completely bought into the rivalry . I get every team is different but like you I called the game over in the first four minutes . UNC just out played and played harder then Duke .
Yep the game was over before it began.
Proctor has to be the guy. I thought he played well but we need more. Flip has to play the way he did in the second half for the whole game. We are just inconsistent with our toughness unfortunately. But, it’s a new season. Let’s see what happens.
Proctor has to be the guy. I thought he played well but we need more. Flip has to play the way he did in the second half for the whole game. We are just inconsistent with our toughness unfortunately. But, it’s a new season. Let’s see what happens.
Flip seems to be too up and down, too caught up with the last play, to be the leader. Roach is usually the leader but he just had a bad game Saturday. It happens but this time at the wrong time.
A colleague at work who is not a Duke guy said "you guys have to stop playing big games on Senior Night. This happens all the time to you guys!" I said, it's not that easy, we don't control the TV schedule!
A colleague at work who is not a Duke guy said "you guys have to stop playing big games on Senior Night. This happens all the time to you guys!" I said, it's not that easy, we don't control the TV schedule!
The problem is that we do not have one guy who can be depended upon to lead this team. No one is consistently good. Flip is an enigma. We got crushed on the boards and then repeatedly missed crucial shots, even foul shots. Cannot understand why Jon did not do something to stop Ryan. Giving up 31 points to that guy is unexplainable. We can put four or five 5-stars on the court at ont time, yet still get outplayed. I would bet that in the vast majority of games we start in a hole. What are the problems? Lack of preparation, inability to make in game adjustments, failure to recruit a capable center, inconsistent foul shooting, choking in big games, lack of defensive effort? None of the above? You don't want to know how I really feel.
OFC
Cadeut is underrated. I’ve seen a couple of their games live and he gets their offense going smoothly, no one can stay in front of him, and he dives for loose balls. He’s a leader. Duke doesn’t really have an alpha One game to the next it’s a damn adventure
Flip is not a leader. That's why he's not a captain. I'm sure he's a good guy, and I love that he came back this year, but his repeated disappearance in the first half is a major reason why Duke starts so slowly. How many times has that happened this season?
It’s why I’ve said Flip is the player that will decide if this team reaches its potential or not.
The games Duke started well and played well for the remainder of the games were: Baylor, @ Pitt, @ Florida State, Virginia. Whatever they did before those 4 games tipped off they need to replicate the rest of the season.
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Baylor is going to be difficult. Talent was the bottom-line with all three teams. I just hate we might've peaked too early.
I don’t think we have peaked. It’s a tall task, but we won’t reach our potential unless a leader steps up.
This Duke team has not peaked yet. We haven’t played but maybe one complete game. I think we will put it together this week. I’m a little biased though.
Agreed Mac,
Imo it has to be Roach to Lead, he is the Experienced Veteran who has been to a Final 4 and he hit big shots during the run to the Final 4 two years ago. His teammates seem to have respect for him. Roach doesn’t have to be the lead scorer every game in the post season, but he has to be the most intelligent play maker for the team as well as have the best positive attitude for the team. I think his teammates will follow his lead.
I think people just feel this way because of the last game. Before that, we were definitely playing the best we had all year. Just need to get our rhythm back.
And go back to moving the ball. In all Dukes losses imo the opposing team dictated the style the game was played .
I hope you're right, but I think it's deeper than that. Other than Baylor, the rest of the wins are against teams that are hoping to get into the tourney.
In my opinion, mental toughness and no on court leader is what holds this team back.
I think the slow starts in the beginning of games is the easiest fix along with cleaning up the lazy passes/careless turnovers (such as dribbling into traffic)
I am content with Duke’s offense when they are really moving the ball. Duke’s defense has been good this season, but it can still raise another notch or 2 (the Duke players need to develop a Hunter’s Mentality for the remainder of the season).
I am content with Duke’s offense when they are really moving the ball. Duke’s defense has been good this season, but it can still raise another notch or 2 (the Duke players need to develop a Hunter’s Mentality for the remainder of the season).
Then start posting here again and leave the sunshine and rainbow world behind LOL
Shey, with all due respect, I strongly disagree that this team is well coached, given the elleged level of our talent. I get no satisfaction from just making a game close at the end. And we have embarrassing losses to teams who never even should have been in the game like GT, Ark, Pitt, Wake, NC State. The only cognizable wins were Michigan State (in a down year) and Baylor. UNC and Arizona are just better teams, so Duke's losses to them were understandable. We should be seeded somewhere between 6 to 9, which means we will not be starting with a cupcake. To change the subject, it is worth noting that UNCheat and Duke brought on new coaches at exactly the same time. With consistently less talent, the Heels have outperformed Duke in 2 out of those 3 years, both on the court and in the transfer portal. They are without question the better coached team right now. South Carolina has a second year coach who has built the Gamecocks from scratch, and has transformed them into one of the best teams in the SEC (which is a far tougher conference than the ACC). Aside from Flip, who busts his arse while being forced to play out of his natural position every game, there is not another player on the team who is dependable, consistent, or hard core. By this point in the year we see a team reaching its potential, not one on a downward slide. We are going to need a whole lot of luck to get any where in the NCAA Tournament, sad to say.
OFC
OFC
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The cheats were the biggest disappointment in all of college basketball last year. And historically one of the biggest as well. It was the first preseason #1 team not to make the tourney. In fact, they dropped out of the rankings in less than a month and never returned. Jon coached Duke undefeated at home, swept our rival, and won the ACC tourney in his first season. This while following the GOAT. So I definitely think Jon outcoached Davis last season by a country mile. We were trending up before the Mitchell injury on a ten-game win streak going into the Tennessee game.
I was actually at the Duke game in Raleigh 11 days ago. Last night is not the same team I saw. And that’s been the maddening part of this team. They truly are the old Forrest Gump quote, “life is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you’re gonna get.”
To return this many starters, have this incoming class, and avoid any transfer in the off-season who expected 24-8? I am an ardent defender of the ACC. A defender of its history and its historic prowess in the sport but folks this league sucks! I have never seen it this bad and you’re telling me this Duke team couldn’t do better in this year’s conference? Losing two games to the league’s best team, unc-chapel hill branch, is not disturbing. But pretty much trailing for the 80 minutes in both games is disturbing. And unacceptable.
The conference is so bad that without beating unc-chapel hill branch, Duke’s best win is Baylor in December. And likewise, other than beating Duke. unc’s next best win is Tennessee in December. That’s how bad this conference is.
No, I do not think John Scheyer has done a good job with this team. The way these guys start games and end halves is just totally perplexing at times. You’re gonna have a team now and then as a coach that you just never are quite able to get your finger firmly on the pulse of the squad. Even Coach K had a few. But it’s been an odd season. And while Bilas loves to heap praise on Jeremy Roach, who has had some special moments in his career and is a really good player. Explain his performance the last two games? I would argue that he has underachieved this season. Or is the 14 a game about where you expected for a senior? There’s no question Proctor has underachieved as well.
If you disagree that some of these guys have underachieved, then Derek Lively must’ve been the best player in college basketball last year because Duke was better last year. And one thing about Lively, there’s no question his defense was ELITE. But again, you bring four starters back from that team.
And I don’t wanna hear the injury junk. They were just fine in Raleigh without Caleb Foster. Proctor was hurt in December at a non-critical time before conference play. Only In the Pittsburgh game at home when Jeremy and Mark were out would I agree that the injury excuse applies. Because that’s two starters missing.
I have zero expectation for the NCAA tournament. If Duke is somehow in the second weekend, then they probably have about maxed.
I give Jon a D+ this year and a B- last year.
To return this many starters, have this incoming class, and avoid any transfer in the off-season who expected 24-8? I am an ardent defender of the ACC. A defender of its history and its historic prowess in the sport but folks this league sucks! I have never seen it this bad and you’re telling me this Duke team couldn’t do better in this year’s conference? Losing two games to the league’s best team, unc-chapel hill branch, is not disturbing. But pretty much trailing for the 80 minutes in both games is disturbing. And unacceptable.
The conference is so bad that without beating unc-chapel hill branch, Duke’s best win is Baylor in December. And likewise, other than beating Duke. unc’s next best win is Tennessee in December. That’s how bad this conference is.
No, I do not think John Scheyer has done a good job with this team. The way these guys start games and end halves is just totally perplexing at times. You’re gonna have a team now and then as a coach that you just never are quite able to get your finger firmly on the pulse of the squad. Even Coach K had a few. But it’s been an odd season. And while Bilas loves to heap praise on Jeremy Roach, who has had some special moments in his career and is a really good player. Explain his performance the last two games? I would argue that he has underachieved this season. Or is the 14 a game about where you expected for a senior? There’s no question Proctor has underachieved as well.
If you disagree that some of these guys have underachieved, then Derek Lively must’ve been the best player in college basketball last year because Duke was better last year. And one thing about Lively, there’s no question his defense was ELITE. But again, you bring four starters back from that team.
And I don’t wanna hear the injury junk. They were just fine in Raleigh without Caleb Foster. Proctor was hurt in December at a non-critical time before conference play. Only In the Pittsburgh game at home when Jeremy and Mark were out would I agree that the injury excuse applies. Because that’s two starters missing.
I have zero expectation for the NCAA tournament. If Duke is somehow in the second weekend, then they probably have about maxed.
I give Jon a D+ this year and a B- last year.
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Had you beaten Tennessee in last years tournament, I think you lose to UConn in the Finals (nobody was beating those dudes), it was a pretty nice path from there. I thought Scheyer was the guy for a year and a half but I'm starting to wonder now. In response to another thread, his verbage in Time Outs seems very passive and I'm wondering if he's losing the locker room a little bit. Roach's body language lately suggests maybe so. I'm just an observer so none of this is based on any inside info. With that said, I thought K was losing his fire in 2010 and thought he may be thinking about hanging it up then, but he goes on to win 2 more (1 that year) and adding to his legacy. Scheyer may still be the guy, but he needs to start showing some fire. As most of you are saying, the tournament is a new start, and you have hope to see what happens. You certainly have the talent to take down a #1, but is the fire there?
Maybe it’s good we lost. This team doesn’t play well as the favorite.
We will definitely be the underdogs if we get through two rounds. That’s a big if…..but everything after we will be supposed to lose.
It may actually help this team….
We will definitely be the underdogs if we get through two rounds. That’s a big if…..but everything after we will be supposed to lose.
It may actually help this team….
Your analysis of the Cheats in 2022 is correct, but does not apply in 2021 and 2023. OFC
Not sure we have the talent, having to play 3 guards, forcing Fip to play center with only one forward. OFC
The adage - "hard work beats talent if talent doesnt work hard" seems quite appropriate for this group
My observation is we seem to struggle when we face teams as talented as us, or close to it. We don't seem to have a plan B when plan A doesn't work. And our offense is very predictable. I wouldn't mind taking lumps this year if most of our guys return. But a first weekend exit followed by a mass exodus would be hard to take and would leave me very discouraged.
Jon was a very good offensive player at Duke. I just can’t figure out our offense we have no identity, there’s no offensive sets it’s just standing around or iso, it’s a complete mess.
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