Top Recruiting Classes Are Getting Old

[christophero]

I remember being disappointed when Boykin left. He was never a star at Cal, but we could have used a tough solid 4 those 3 years. Think he averaged 12 and 7 his senior year and was second team all Pac 10. He put up some good numbers overseas.

 

[jamsession2]

I remember being disappointed when Boykin left. He was never a star at Cal, but we could have used a solid 4 those 3 years. Think he averaged 12 and 7 his senior year and was second team all Pac 10.

I was pissed he left. Mr. Hustle. He had a decent Pac 10 career.

 

[christophero]

Boykin and Coleman, another guy I wish stuck around, had similar college careers.

 

[hart2chesson]

My favorite Duke hoops podcast is 'The 5 Point Play," w/Timo and a stellar cast. However, another Duke fan page has info from its Blue Devil pod this week about the alarming number of Duke transfers.

This is somewhat 2nd hand as the co-host would not Name the parent of the Duke player who transferred. There was no audio, but the pod co-host indicated NIL "had nothing to do" with the defections. He merely said in ALL SEVEN CASES it boiled down to "Less Playing Time." This included some player(s) not returning to the starting five.

In my opinion Jon did what he had to do. You must put yourself in the BEST POSSIBLE position to win games.

Timo and the folks at "5 Point Play" can possibly shed more light on this than I can.

OFC

 

[GAAP]

Boykin and Coleman, another guy I wish stuck around, had similar college careers.

You should be Coleman's agent. You're his biggest supporter.

 

[dukecorey]

My favorite Duke hoops podcast is 'The 5 Point Play," w/Timo and a stellar cast. However, another Duke fan page has info from its Blue Devil pod this week about the alarming number of Duke transfers.

This is somewhat 2nd hand as the co-host would not Name the parent of the Duke player who transferred. There was no audio, but the pod co-host indicated NIL "had nothing to do" with the defections. He merely said in ALL SEVEN CASES it boiled down to "Less Playing Time." This included some player(s) not returning to the starting five.

In my opinion Jon did what he had to do. You must put yourself in the BEST POSSIBLE position to win games.

Timo and the folks at "5 Point Play" can possibly shed more light on this than I can.

OFC

I saw this also and I support Coach Scheyer and don’t believe he forced out any player. He was probably being truthful with the player that he isn’t guaranteed a starting spot for the upcoming season. Just speculating, I feel the parent could be either Mitchell, Stewart or Power. The other four had their reason, Roach (NIL/Coach future), Blakes/Schutt/Reeves weren’t going to start here next season and wanted more playing time. Maybe Mitchell was told that he has to earn his starting spot back and his father was already upset this past season with his role. Stewart and Power still had a chance to start but maybe they were looking for more of a guarantee? Either way I don’t see any player being forced out and they had there choice to stay on the roster and compete. They have to live with their choice to leave and enter the portal. Hopefully it works out for everyone moving forward. I will root for every past and present Duke player. But the bottom line this is college basketball now and players and coaches have to adjust to the environment. Coach Scheyer has to field the best team he can even if players aren’t happy with their roles. Just my thoughts on the situation.

 

[GLStarrBrand]

I saw this also and I support Coach Scheyer and don’t believe he forced out any player. He was probably being truthful with the player that he isn’t guaranteed a starting spot for the upcoming season. Just speculating, I feel the parent could be either Mitchell, Stewart or Power. The other four had their reason, Roach (NIL/Coach future), Blakes/Schutt/Reeves weren’t going to start here next season and wanted more playing time. Maybe Mitchell was told that he has to earn his starting spot back and his father was already upset this past season with his role. Stewart and Power still had a chance to start but maybe they were looking for more of a guarantee? Either way I don’t see any player being forced out and they had there choice to stay on the roster and compete. They have to live with their choice to leave and enter the portal. Hopefully it works out for everyone moving forward. I will root for every past and present Duke player. But the bottom line this is college basketball now and players and coaches have to adjust to the environment. Coach Scheyer has to field the best team he can even if players aren’t happy with their roles. Just my thoughts on the situation.

I’m pretty certain it was Stewart. Apparently his dad was demanding a starting position to any of the schools he was looking at transferring to. I have a buddy who is pretty plugged in at the University of Cincinnati (on Sean’s transfer list) and Sean’s “team” would only go to a school if guaranteed a starting spot.

 

[dukecorey]

I’m pretty certain it was Stewart. Apparently his dad was demanding a starting position to any of the schools he was looking at transferring to. I have a buddy who is pretty plugged in at the University of Cincinnati (on Sean’s transfer list) and Sean’s “team” would only go to a school if guaranteed a starting spot.

That makes total sense, who knows maybe he could have won the starting spot at Duke. Best of luck Sean in his future.

 

[jamsession2]

I saw this also and I support Coach Scheyer and don’t believe he forced out any player. He was probably being truthful with the player that he isn’t guaranteed a starting spot for the upcoming season. Just speculating, I feel the parent could be either Mitchell, Stewart or Power. The other four had their reason, Roach (NIL/Coach future), Blakes/Schutt/Reeves weren’t going to start here next season and wanted more playing time. Maybe Mitchell was told that he has to earn his starting spot back and his father was already upset this past season with his role. Stewart and Power still had a chance to start but maybe they were looking for more of a guarantee? Either way I don’t see any player being forced out and they had there choice to stay on the roster and compete. They have to live with their choice to leave and enter the portal. Hopefully it works out for everyone moving forward. I will root for every past and present Duke player. But the bottom line this is college basketball now and players and coaches have to adjust to the environment. Coach Scheyer has to field the best team he can even if players aren’t happy with their roles. Just my thoughts on the situation.

I support Scheyer and the podcast is good, but I would not say some kids weren't forced out. Sometimes a coach does not need the headache. Yes, Stewart should've played more. Yes, Mitchell should've adjusted to being a 'college 4'. And yes, Reeves and Blake's role in this system should've been more defined. However, as a coach, it's about wins and losses...not your feelings. It's about the system. Not adjusting to the player. It's about the BRAND. Some kids were forced out just because the recruit was possibly better.

I'm waiting to see if Sion James will rattle the roster a bit?

 

[timo0402]

Got wind of this yesterday and listened to that segment. Also appreciate the kind words Hart.

Was talking about this with some folks earlier this morning and here are my thoughts.

1. That segment to me was a lot to do about nothing. If I had to guess the parent it was MM.

2. Here’s another thing I wanted to add. After we lost to unc I believe the second time, I told AC (Hokie) after our recording off camera, that if I was Jon, I’d sit MM down after the season and be like you don’t have to leave but you are behind Cooper, Stewart and whoever in the portal we may identify as of this moment. You can stay and compete and if you improve you will play and maybe start but as of now that’s just not the direction I want to take this team next year. We need players who can shoot, are tough, have certain ball skills etc. it’s called being brutally honest.

3. Jon’s job is to win. Period. You have to appreciate a coach that’s going to tell you how it is too. This isn’t rec league.

4. But let’s go through the checklist one more time so people get it. Jon’s going after very specific things to build his roster- talent, toughness, experience, competitiveness. Every player he’s brought in has that. And when you match them up vs who left he’s succeeded. Let Jon do his thing. He’s still young and still learning and his background as a player, asst and associate, and now HC have shown me he knows how to get better.

 

[jamsession2]

Got wind of this yesterday and listened to that segment. Also appreciate the kind words Hart.

Was talking about this with some folks earlier this morning and here are my thoughts.

1. That segment to me was a lot to do about nothing. If I had to guess the parent it was MM.

2. Here’s another thing I wanted to add. After we lost to unc I believe the second time, I told AC (Hokie) after our recording off camera, that if I was Jon, I’d sit MM down after the season and be like you don’t have to leave but you are behind Cooper, Stewart and whoever in the portal we may identify as of this moment. You can stay and compete and if you improve you will play and maybe start but as of now that’s just not the direction I want to take this team next year. We need players who can shoot, are tough, have certain ball skills etc. it’s called being brutally honest.

3. Jon’s job is to win. Period. You have to appreciate a coach that’s going to tell you how it is too. This isn’t rec league.

4. But let’s go through the checklist one more time so people get it. Jon’s going after very specific things to build his roster- talent, toughness, experience, competitiveness. Every player he’s brought in has that. And when you match them up vs who left he’s succeeded. Let Jon do his thing. He’s still young and still learning and his background as a player, asst and associate, and now HC have shown me he knows how to get better.

Spot On. What I can't get is, even if Mitchell does not shoot well, REBOUND!. Mitchell was a walking 12/10 every game, but did not play as such. He did not want to post and was weak getting the put backs. Yet, the kid was bigger than his opponent at times.

 

[hart2chesson]

Got wind of this yesterday and listened to that segment. Also appreciate the kind words Hart.

Was talking about this with some folks earlier this morning and here are my thoughts.

1. That segment to me was a lot to do about nothing. If I had to guess the parent it was MM.

2. Here’s another thing I wanted to add. After we lost to unc I believe the second time, I told AC (Hokie) after our recording off camera, that if I was Jon, I’d sit MM down after the season and be like you don’t have to leave but you are behind Cooper, Stewart and whoever in the portal we may identify as of this moment. You can stay and compete and if you improve you will play and maybe start but as of now that’s just not the direction I want to take this team next year. We need players who can shoot, are tough, have certain ball skills etc. it’s called being brutally honest.

3. Jon’s job is to win. Period. You have to appreciate a coach that’s going to tell you how it is too. This isn’t rec league.

4. But let’s go through the checklist one more time so people get it. Jon’s going after very specific things to build his roster- talent, toughness, experience, competitiveness. Every player he’s brought in has that. And when you match them up vs who left he’s succeeded. Let Jon do his thing. He’s still young and still learning and his background as a player, asst and associate, and now HC have shown me he knows how to get better.

Thanks for the in-depth analysis my friend!

OFC

 

[Mac9192]

Spot On. What I can't get is, even if Mitchell does not shoot well, REBOUND!. Mitchell was a walking 12/10 every game, but did not play as such. He did not want to post and was weak getting the put backs. Yet, the kid was bigger than his opponent at times.

Jon was more than fair with Mitchell, at the expense of our two freshmen forwards. People need to get over the fact he wore a Duke jersey, and admit he was simply not that good.

To be honest, year two wasn't good for Jon, and hopefully he's learning from it.

 

[jamsession2]

Jon was more than fair with Mitchell, at the expense of our two freshmen forwards. People need to get over the fact he wore a Duke jersey, and admit he was simply not that good.

To be honest, year two wasn't good for Jon, and hopefully he's learning from it.

True Mac, but keep in mind, he was not suppose to start as a freshman. D. Whitehead was hurt. Mark probably is just coming to his own. Duke sped up is process. Our expectation might've been unrealistic. Furthermore, if Flip played the 4, Mark could've been All ACC.

 

[GLStarrBrand]

I wouldn’t call Mitchell a disappointment, but I definitely wouldn’t call Mitchell’s 2 year career a success at Duke. Yes, he was a 5 star, but not a top rated one and was never expected to be a OAD (though looking back, his stock was definitely highest after FR year.) We have had much less successful 5 star guys. And yes, I believe we beat Tennessee in 23 with Mitchell, we were rolling.

I always go back to the stat they would always say on the broadcast “duke is undefeated when Mitchell scores 12+ points” it was something like that. Mitchell was our swing guy, he could score 0 or 20, ya never knew.

The shot was what it was, ugly and terrible. Idk why Jon had him standing on the perimeter so much, but that’s the game in 2024. What irked me with Mitchell was he had all the tools to be a DOG on defense, and he was solid, but wasn’t elite. He didn’t play with the same defensive intensity that I saw from Stewart at the end of the year.

 

[christophero]

Mitchell missed the spring and summer
I think he will have a big junior year. But I get why people don't like his game. He could vanish at big moments. The Syracuse kid is a good trade.

 

[jamsession2]

I wouldn’t call Mitchell a disappointment, but I definitely wouldn’t call Mitchell’s 2 year career a success at Duke. Yes, he was a 5 star, but not a top rated one and was never expected to be a OAD (though looking back, his stock was definitely highest after FR year.) We have had much less successful 5 star guys. And yes, I believe we beat Tennessee in 23 with Mitchell, we were rolling.

I always go back to the stat they would always say on the broadcast “duke is undefeated when Mitchell scores 12+ points” it was something like that. Mitchell was our swing guy, he could score 0 or 20, ya never knew.

The shot was what it was, ugly and terrible. Idk why Jon had him standing on the perimeter so much, but that’s the game in 2024. What irked me with Mitchell was he had all the tools to be a DOG on defense, and he was solid, but wasn’t elite. He didn’t play with the same defensive intensity that I saw from Stewart at the end of the year.

You're right. He was a toss up. What is true is if the kid just would've been a bruiser and dominated the paint, this is not a conversation. Mitchell didn't want that 'smoke' every game. It would've been nice for him to get a 3pt shot, but he didn't need it. Rebound, dunk, box out and be an athlete.

 

[JimboSlice00]

Year two for Jon resulted in an elite 8. No matter how you cut it, thats a good season. He's done very well thus far.

 

[christophero]

Yes I tend to look at tournament results. So one game elimination, match ups, blah blah. You have to win when it counts. Elite eight is a good year for Duke, despite us being team miserable, ha. You can have too many 5 stars, as no 5 star wants to be a role player or wait their turn. Next offseason will be telling. And with NIL it sounds like parents are becoming agents.

 

[Mac9192]

If you’re happy with that we beat a team that lost their best player in the 1st half to get to the elite 8, then by all means, go ahead. But we were preseason top 5, with 4 starters back. Yet our play was up and down all season, there was reportedly tension in the locker room, and we got swept by the holes.

I’d call Jon’s first season successful, but not this one.

 

[denverexpat]

The two losses to NCst are what stand out to me from JS's second season...we won the first match up, yet we didnt follow that formula in the next two, didnt adjust at all defensively and lost both...that was all on JS.

 

[christophero]

Hey man I said good, not great.

 

[JimboSlice00]

Preseason rankings mean nothing. It's an elite 8 appearance in the second year of coaching a blue blood. Not the end result we all wanted, but no way to call that an unsuccessful season.

 

[christophero]

Reeves to Clemson.

 

[Jjallen]

It’s really difficult to lose the greatest coach of all time and not have any drop off. Yet, we have had two solid tournament runs and 54 wins. I would be lying if I didn’t admit that coach k didn’t have something to do with that. (Leaving a good situation) I think jon deserves some credit also though. I know I am in the minority here but I actually think we had a much better season than what our roster was. I understand you can make the argument that it was Jon’s fault our roster wasn’t better. I also understand the frustration to losing that second game to st. However, if we lose to Houston in elite 8 rather than nc state, I think more opinions would be different. If you would have told me we get a acc title 1st year then have a chance at a final four 2 years after k leaves, I would have taken that easily.

Also, I think unc was a legit top 3 team with experience. If anyone should be upset, it should be their fan base because they missed an opportunity.

 

[bullcity gamer]

Finishing as one of the Top 8 teams in the country is never a failure. Enough of the Shead injury. When he got injured he had just scored his first basket of the game with 6:30 left in the first half. Yes I know Shead was All Big 12 and the heart and soul of Houston and the best defender in the country.

Playing in a Regional Championship with an opportunity to make another Final 4 is not a failure especially when you are a 4 seed in the tournament. Polls are made by a pool of journalists some who I venture to guess have never played a competitive sport in their life.

The 2005 and 2006 seasons were failures being 1 seeds both seasons and not making it to at least the Elite 8 either season when you are anchored by two of the Duke Greats in Redick and Shelden Williams.

We have a good one in Scheyer.

 

[Quavarius]

It's all a crapshoot. Duke has been unlucky that many of the kids coming in weren't as good as we needed them to be. Not just the years mentioned, but a few other teams since 2000 have been below par. The 12 and 14 teams come to mind. We've been more than blessed though. Who would have known Tyus was a dog, or that Grayson had that killer instinct in him?

We can only hope Flagg is everything we've been told, and that the other guys are ready for the big time too.

Yesssssss! Exactly because it is, which is why I don’t understand certain fans who don’t want to go after highly ranked recruits. Not Duke or college basketball’s fault the NBA forces HS seniors to go to college for one year. Why wouldn’t we take the best players? Now with the transfer portal, we can get older (as long as they can get past Duke’s admissions office). Me, personally, I’d rather take the best players and roll the dice because again, as you say, it’s a crapshoot.

 

[Mac9192]

Yesssssss! Exactly because it is, which is why I don’t understand certain fans who don’t want to go after highly ranked recruits. Not Duke or college basketball’s fault the NBA forces HS seniors to go to college for one year. Why wouldn’t we take the best players? Now with the transfer portal, we can get older (as long as they can get past Duke’s admissions office). Me, personally, I’d rather take the best players and roll the dice because again, as you say, it’s a crapshoot.

I think you take the best players. That fit.

 

[GLStarrBrand]

I wish we knew the real reason we didn’t get a transfer 5 last spring when it was our obvious weakness and that’s what the portal can be used for. Did Jon think we had enough? If so, he was wrong. Or was it the Duke administration not allowing transfers of guys with certain credits etc.?? Would have been nice to have a banger/rim protector against DJ Burns.

I’d probably give Jon a B+ this season. Dinging him a bit due to us being completely unprepared against UNC. But I thought he had our team playing together and connected in the tournament and that’s the most important thing IMO, we put on a clinic against James Madison. I thought his defensive schemes were excellent and we battled injuries all year to guys. It wasn’t Jon’s fault Mitchell got the dumbest technical of the year which cost us the GT game and probbaly a seed line.

I believe our preseason ranking and projection was based on Flip being a 1st team AA/ACC POY type guy and he was good but not THAT good. Is that on Jon? I don’t think so, we ran our offense through Flip. Had we simply made shots and if Proctor showed up, we would have beat NC state. I don’t think we would have beaten Purdue.

 

[sheyduke]

I wish we knew the real reason we didn’t get a transfer 5 last spring when it was our obvious weakness and that’s what the portal can be used for. Did Jon think we had enough? If so, he was wrong. Or was it the Duke administration not allowing transfers of guys with certain credits etc.?? Would have been nice to have a banger/rim protector against DJ Burns.

I’d probably give Jon a B+ this season. Dinging him a bit due to us being completely unprepared against UNC. But I thought he had our team playing together and connected in the tournament and that’s the most important thing IMO, we put on a clinic against James Madison. I thought his defensive schemes were excellent and we battled injuries all year to guys. It wasn’t Jon’s fault Mitchell got the dumbest technical of the year which cost us the GT game and probbaly a seed line.

I believe our preseason ranking and projection was based on Flip being a 1st team AA/ACC POY type guy and he was good but not THAT good. Is that on Jon? I don’t think so, we ran our offense through Flip. Had we simply made shots and if Proctor showed up, we would have beat NC state. I don’t think we would have beaten Purdue.

You were given the real reason ! The one that everyone thought was a lock for Duke couldn’t get passed admissions. Duke Had Young, Reeves, Stewart and Flip and Mitchell they were only going to get a bottom tier big to come . Don’t think for a second had a true top notch center wanted to come to Duke and qualified he wouldn’t have been on the roster .