Chris, I know Tillman plays for Boston but not sure if anyone else from that team plays in the NBA.
Top Recruiting Classes Are Getting Old
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McRoberts had the only stat line in college basketball that he had his sophmore year
13ppg 8rebs 4ast 3blks 1stl....if he had managed 16-18ppg i think he may have been looked at more favorably imo...i loved the kid
i agree w/ that too Q ...barring the bubble season and K's 1st 4 seasons... only 3 seasons of double digit losses...1995-1996 18-13, 2006-2007 22-11, and 2015-2016 25-11.....sustained greatness, we have a shot every year
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I think we need to fully embrace the portal, because this hope guys stay 3 to 4 years thing is for the most part not working. We have 2 guys back, perhaps 3.
I get it. But I think Jon is trying to have multi year guys. We had 4 starters back this past season, and have 2 rotational guys back for this upcoming season.
College sports are a train wreck, and short of your fringe guys raking in good $ from NIL, I don’t know what the answer is. I’m not sure anyone does.
Malik Brown averaged 9 and 7 for Cuse. From what I have read he is a small ball 5 like Amile. Could play a Young type role.
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The NIL is completely fine. The transfer portal, one year then transfer, is a bad move for stability. I still believe they need to sit a year.
I agree with this. I also fully support high school players going direct to the NBA/G League if that's what they choose, and also a mandatory 2 years of college ball at one team for incoming freshmen.
Maybe their role would be the similar, but he would be a huge upgrade over Ryan Young.
Not sure about that memory. We had some very good rankings in those classes. But the players we recruited turned out to be busts relative to their ranking. Including Paulus, McRoberts (11 and 2 respectively). If they played to the level of their ranking we’d have been much better. Gerald Henderson was a scorer but not an efficient player. Zoubek was a #24 recruit. He finally found a useful role the second half of his senior season but still that was a bust for the first 3+ years. Then we had Scheyer and the next year landed Singler, Smith, King (36).
One problem back then, imo, was scouting. The 2010 team came together with Scheyer, Singler, & Smith leading the way but it was that those all stayed 4 yrs that made a difference.
It wasn’t that they were bad recruiting classes as far as rankings, just that they didn’t develop.
In the late 80s, 90s K didn’t get many recruits but nearly all turned out to be great players. Ferry, Laettner, Hurley, Hill. And they stayed.
You need good players. But you also need quality veteran players who have developed into physically and mentally tough players.
I agree with you post, but your rankings do not have to match your college decision. Possibly if Greg P went to another school he could've been a Bobby Hurley 2.0. At Duke, he had too much pressure too soon. He never developed. People forget, having Bill McCaffrey for Bobby's freshman year took off a lot pressure. McBob wanted to go pro and at times had a Christian Laettner attitude, without the production.
it seemed after the JJ years when it seemed to be his show and Sheldon along for the ride..even though sheldon was a monster, we did go on a big man drought
Frosh year, he played robin to sheldons batman, but his soph year he did.....
13ppg 8rebs 4ast 3blks 1stl....if he had managed 16-18ppg i think he may have been looked at more favorably imo...the only player in college ball that season w/ those numbers
A couple things happened in the mid 2000s that I feel set us back a few years. First, Deng being a OAD. We should have won the title in 04 but the refs thought otherwise. Deng would have been a national POY guy in 05 on a very limited Duke team.
Second, Livingston never coming to Duke really hurt. The guy was a consensus top 3 recruit In the country and was a monster prior to his leg snapping. We probably would have only had him for 1-2 years, but imagine his sophomore year on the 06 team???
Combine that with bringing in top guys that never were that great (Paulus, Zoubek for 3.5 years, Taylor King) and our down years make sense. We definitely lacked athletic wings and perimeter guys, and UNC owned us for those years. I’ve heard stories about how McRoberts was a headache for everybody and K was ready for him to leave. K not diving in to the OAD game during those years also hurt us I feel. We needed elite guys. It all made 2010 that much sweeter though.
Second, Livingston never coming to Duke really hurt. The guy was a consensus top 3 recruit In the country and was a monster prior to his leg snapping. We probably would have only had him for 1-2 years, but imagine his sophomore year on the 06 team???
Combine that with bringing in top guys that never were that great (Paulus, Zoubek for 3.5 years, Taylor King) and our down years make sense. We definitely lacked athletic wings and perimeter guys, and UNC owned us for those years. I’ve heard stories about how McRoberts was a headache for everybody and K was ready for him to leave. K not diving in to the OAD game during those years also hurt us I feel. We needed elite guys. It all made 2010 that much sweeter though.
good post GLStarrBrand. I think one would be hard pressed to find a Duke fan who wasn’t elated from the 2009-2010 National Championship. The not making it past the Sweet 16 from 2005-2009 is what I think made being a Duke fan rough meanwhile Unc is kicking Duke’s rear throughout those years.
Interesting.
www.si.com
Recent Duke Basketball Player Comes to Terms With Leaving Too Early
After arriving in Durham as a five-star prospect, Chicago native DJ Steward delivered an encouraging freshman campaign, albeit for a 2020-21 Duke basketball squ
“6 foot 2 165 pound shooting guard” should have told him all he needed to know about whether to stay or go.Interesting.
Recent Duke Basketball Player Comes to Terms With Leaving Too Early
After arriving in Durham as a five-star prospect, Chicago native DJ Steward delivered an encouraging freshman campaign, albeit for a 2020-21 Duke basketball squ
I think everyone except for him and his inner circle knew it was a mistake .Interesting.
Recent Duke Basketball Player Comes to Terms With Leaving Too Early
After arriving in Durham as a five-star prospect, Chicago native DJ Steward delivered an encouraging freshman campaign, albeit for a 2020-21 Duke basketball squ
It took him a few years to realize it was a mistake? He also hired an agent, and back then you couldn't return. He had a really good first year. He was good but undersized. At the time I thought he was much better than Roach.
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wish Steward would have stayed. He was a very good 3 point shooter. Steward like the rest of his classmates primarily Roach & Williams along with Coleman and Brakefield were starting to hit their stride towards the end of the season.
Stewart's shooting might have put that Banchero team over the top
Although we probably don't get Keels.
Although we probably don't get Keels.
Is that a bad thing? Keels shot 31% on 3s and was much worse on FTs.
True BCG, but it CANNOT be forgotten Roy had the AFAM "paper classes' scheme fully in place at that point! Remember 80% of the CHEATERS '05 natty team were AFAM majors!! OFC
Keels brought it in the big games though. Had 19 in the Final Four, 25 against UK in the champions classic, and hit a massive three against MSU or else we don’t get out of the 2nd round. Keels also was a much better defender than Steward, mainly due to size/strength.
Steward definitely would have been more consistent IMO and we probably don’t drop as many ACC league games. Because Keels was bad for part of ACC play.
THAT PART! Again, if your memory is long enough to remember those lean years, then you don’t ever want to go back to that.
If you look at the 2005 - 2009 years, kids had to take time to be developed. I would go so far to say Coach K was picky with 90% of his recruits.
2005 and 2006 included JJ Redick and Sheldon Williams. There was no OAD’s from 2005-2009. Those years included experience players and we still struggled. Again, I’ll take OAD’s over that stretch!
That 2005-2009 were bookend titles for UNC and they went to a FF in 2008 and Elite 8 in 2007. So it sucked double that we were not making deep runs in the tournament and they were plus Hans”off me”bro went 4-0 in Cameron. That 2010 title was certainly refreshing but, if we’re being honest, no Duke fan thought *that* Duke team would win it all. I think we felt good about our chances after beating Baylor and West Virginia. Sweet title, nonetheless.
I agree that Duke was lean from 05-09, made worse that the holes won it twice during that stretch. But the holes have had their share of lean years too. Their teams from 98-04 weren't exactly scaring anyone.
Maybe our lack of success during that stretch was we due to not landing any oad's. Not sure I fully buy that, but what I do think is we had a few year stretch where our talent wasn't quite as good as the ratings suggested. Everybody always picks on Paulus and McRoberts. But Dockery didn't exactly blaze any trails with his play either. I also remember Nelson coming in with all this hype about setting scoring records from California. Nothing against him, but he was just an ok player.
Maybe our lack of success during that stretch was we due to not landing any oad's. Not sure I fully buy that, but what I do think is we had a few year stretch where our talent wasn't quite as good as the ratings suggested. Everybody always picks on Paulus and McRoberts. But Dockery didn't exactly blaze any trails with his play either. I also remember Nelson coming in with all this hype about setting scoring records from California. Nothing against him, but he was just an ok player.
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32 - 4 05/06... Lost to an athletic team of LSU. Disappointing? Yes. We had no answer for their frontcourt. Did we struggle win wise...HELL NO!
The 06 team IMO was very fools gold. We started out super hot and beat Texas in December by 40 in what was at the time #1 versus #2. But JJ was absolutely insanely scorching nets those first couple of months. McRoberts was solid, but we needed him to be transcendent. I believe at the time he was the highest rated recruit ever to Duke, which the ratings started around 01 I believe.
Once we got scouted (take away JJ and there’s not much else to worry about) we were doomed. We relied on a freshman PG Paulus which I do believe was a backup plan to what could have been a SO Sean Livingston. When your guards are Paulus and JJ, your perimeter defense is gonna be slow. Shelden could clean most of that up though.
I actually thought for Dockery being a 4 star recruit ranked in the 50s he had a pretty solid Duke career. His defensive mentality made sense next to JJ. And I never felt like he tried to do too much. Dockery also made a half court buzzer beater to beat VT his senior year. All in all, I wasn’t shocked when a very athletic LSU team beat us in the sweet 16. JJ needed to be “Redick-ulous” for us to make a run and he was just average.
Once we got scouted (take away JJ and there’s not much else to worry about) we were doomed. We relied on a freshman PG Paulus which I do believe was a backup plan to what could have been a SO Sean Livingston. When your guards are Paulus and JJ, your perimeter defense is gonna be slow. Shelden could clean most of that up though.
I actually thought for Dockery being a 4 star recruit ranked in the 50s he had a pretty solid Duke career. His defensive mentality made sense next to JJ. And I never felt like he tried to do too much. Dockery also made a half court buzzer beater to beat VT his senior year. All in all, I wasn’t shocked when a very athletic LSU team beat us in the sweet 16. JJ needed to be “Redick-ulous” for us to make a run and he was just average.
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Dockery was a McDonald's All American. He was rated as one of the top 10 point guards in the country, and among the top 30 players overall. The sad reality is he's just one of several guys that came along during that stretch that just weren't as good as Duke needed them to be.
I do recall him being a McDonalds All American now, you are correct. I saw he was the 9th rated PG in his class and one would assume that’s a top 50 or so guy, must have been a heavy PG class! Rivals/247 don’t list actual rankings until 2003 so can’t tell his exact ranking.
Regardless, Dockery didn’t contribute as much as a McDonalds AA should have, no doubt about it. But I don’t feel like he set the program back.
He was never recruited to be the starting Duke PG as we already had Duhon, Ewing, and we’re gonna land Livingston. Seemed more like guard depth. Paulus was recruited to be “the guy, “ the next great Duke PG and it was a disaster. Not only was the on court production rough, but there were always rumors where he was telling recruits NOT to come to Duke. Paulus set the program back IMO and fitting that we won the title the year after he left.
Deng leaving and livingston going pro hurt. My memory is we still brought in great classes on paper. But guys like Paulus. Boateng?, Nelson, King etc did not live up to their rankings. And we had a bunch of transfers. We were usually a big man short, and TH just destroyed us up front. I remember Paulus was the USA Today player of the year in football and basketball. That is big time.
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Dockery was a combo guard. Once JJ committed, it was determined Sean would play pg. He did not develop into a natural pg. He was a good lead guard. If he was the sg, then we may be having a different conversation. The reality is JJ was here.
Boateng needed development along with Jamal B. Taylor was a completely different story. His issues were not pt or talent, it was him.
It's all a crapshoot. Duke has been unlucky that many of the kids coming in weren't as good as we needed them to be. Not just the years mentioned, but a few other teams since 2000 have been below par. The 12 and 14 teams come to mind. We've been more than blessed though. Who would have known Tyus was a dog, or that Grayson had that killer instinct in him?
We can only hope Flagg is everything we've been told, and that the other guys are ready for the big time too.
We can only hope Flagg is everything we've been told, and that the other guys are ready for the big time too.
