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^I'm not dismissing what you said; I am pointing out how there is a flipside. Until we acknowledge that those flipsides can exist simultaneously and stop assuming the worst of the other, it's just gonna perpetuate division.
Fair enough. You are no different than we are when a "racist" crime has happened though. If we're being honest here, you want the white person to be guilty, I don't. The media only makes things worse. They aren't interested in the facts. They have an agenda, and love to pour fuel on the fire.
When it is proven that the white person is guilty, you won't find any of us defending them. I'm not sure you're capable of doing the same though.
 
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It’s in the best interest of both conservatives and institutional racism to keep “racism” from being identified. That’s why they will literally never accept said accusations. I would compare it to a ghost hunter hearing a noise in their home and believing there is no other explanation besides ghosts.

^I'm not dismissing what you said; I am pointing out how there is a flipside. Until we acknowledge that those flipsides can exist simultaneously and stop assuming the worst of the other, it's just gonna perpetuate division.
Tell me how this would be in the best interest of conservatives. Also, what institutional racism exists in 2025?
 
The racial hoaxes have been amplified by the conservative media, I’ll grant you, but let’s not lose sight of how they came to be in the first place. An msm so desperate to push an agenda they are willing to accept an obviously preposterous account such as Smolette’s and present it as Exhibit A of how racist MAGA loving white men are. Who can save the frightened and vulnerable from the evil MAGA movement?
Why, Democrats of course. Get to the polls. If you can't, maybe your neighbor has a spare mail in ballot lying around.
The Jessie Smolette hoax was more than 5 years ago. Both the hoaxes and genuine racism have been around for much longer than that. The Tawana Brawley hoax is the earliest such hoax I can remember, back in the '80s sometime. That was before the rise of conservative media. Both the initial media coverage sympathetic to her victimhood and the revelations that it was a hoax -- which many in the Black community said were too harsh toward Brawley -- were covered by the mainstream media.

FBI's hate crime stats from 2023, which is probably the last year that has been released, said there were over 11k incidents, about half of which were racial in nature, and about half of those which were perpetrated against Black people. How many hoaxes are y'all claiming?
 
Fair enough. You are no different than we are when a "racist" crime has happened though. If we're being honest here, you want the white person to be guilty, I don't. The media only makes things worse. They aren't interested in the facts. They have an agenda, and love to pour fuel on the fire.
When it is proven that the white person is guilty, you won't find any of us defending them. I'm not sure you're capable of doing the same though.
I think in identifying that there are different perspectives, I'm demonstrating my awareness of that tendency in myself, which in turn is a pretty good way of checking myself against jumping to conclusions as often as y'all do.

There was a white principal near Charlotte a few years ago who was run out of his job after using the term "colored people" multiple times in a faculty meeting. I strongly suspect he was trying to use the term "people of color," which was newly trending at the time, and just botched it. I defended him on social media and message boards like this one at the time. I also have a close acquaintance who, in attempting to revise a mission statement to be more trans-inclusive, used outdated language and was cancelled by aggressive transpeople and their allies to the point she had to close her business. Another less close acquaintance shuttered a business after being a mediocre boss was leveraged into racism and they were cancelled. I can't think of other specific examples at the moment, but these are not anomalies. This whole "but you do it too" thing is not equally applicable to me personally.

I am very sure that I am not only capable of doing "the same," but much more capable of it than any of y'all here.
 
The Jessie Smolette hoax was more than 5 years ago. Both the hoaxes and genuine racism have been around for much longer than that. The Tawana Brawley hoax is the earliest such hoax I can remember, back in the '80s sometime. That was before the rise of conservative media. Both the initial media coverage sympathetic to her victimhood and the revelations that it was a hoax -- which many in the Black community said were too harsh toward Brawley -- were covered by the mainstream media.

FBI's hate crime stats from 2023, which is probably the last year that has been released, said there were over 11k incidents, about half of which were racial in nature, and about half of those which were perpetrated against Black people. How many hoaxes are y'all claiming?
Five years ago. Bingo. Year of George Floyd when it was cool to be a victim.

Like the Floyd case any white on black crime will be reported as a hate crime. Black on white? Race isn’t a factor, it’s just crime so the FBI’s stats are shaky right off the bat.
 
Tell me how this would be in the best interest of conservatives. Also, what institutional racism exists in 2025?
Nope. Not going down that rabbit hole. You and multiple others here are already on record that you don't believe institutional racism exists at all. You, specifically, are on record that you don't believe any racism exists at all. Why would I beat my head against that brick wall?

Are you denying that I accurately portrayed a perspective that truly exists? Are you still trying to win while I'm trying to point to a way where healing might happen?
 
Nope. Not going down that rabbit hole. You and multiple others here are already on record that you don't believe institutional racism exists at all. You, specifically, are on record that you don't believe any racism exists at all. Why would I beat my head against that brick wall?

Are you denying that I accurately portrayed a perspective that truly exists? Are you still trying to win while I'm trying to point to a way where healing might happen?
I knew you wouldn’t. The majority of your arguments are based on emotion. Or at the very least, several that you discuss here are. Once your beliefs based on emotion are challenged, you either dodge the topic or only pick the “easy” parts to address. You know that I would pick apart any “racism” argument you have and that’s why you tread lightly. And I’m not trying to attack you. I’m really not. Just giving my observations.

The only way healing is going to happen is if more black people become independent and have fathers in their households. It’s that simple. If you want to help the black community, try encouraging that. Do some research on how the black community was when they voted Republican.
 
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I think in identifying that there are different perspectives, I'm demonstrating my awareness of that tendency in myself, which in turn is a pretty good way of checking myself against jumping to conclusions as often as y'all do.

I am very sure that I am not only capable of doing "the same," but much more capable of it than any of y'all here.
Not sure I believe you, but you're entitled to say what you want. I look at you as someone who's been conditioned to be the voice of the downtrodden. Or think you are. It sounds good too. I mean who doesn't have compassion for the unlucky? You act as though liberals have cornered the market on having empathy, and if we don't buy it, we are rude, racist...

That couldn't be further from the truth.
 
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There ha[ve] been so many genuine acts of racism and excused racism over the entire history of our country that anyone would be right to be on the lookout for racism. Don't blame those who automatically suspect racism. Blame the people who created the world where it gives merit to the suspicions. Mainly conservatives and their media. When you're programmed to dismiss racism in everything, it's easy to assume Black people are maliciously and knowingly lying.

^I'm not dismissing what you said; I am pointing out how there is a flipside. Until we acknowledge that those flipsides can exist simultaneously and stop assuming the worst of the other, it's just gonna perpetuate division.
Well, this is what I mean by being desperate to keep racism rolling. Key word being "keep". Not dismissing the days where racism was prevalent. But today you have people who aren't experiencing any meaningful racism making claims of racism and you have progressives and the media acting like it is rampant. The past can't excuse present day forever.
 
Five years ago. Bingo. Year of George Floyd when it was cool to be a victim.

Like the Floyd case any white on black crime will be reported as a hate crime. Black on white? Race isn’t a factor, it’s just crime so the FBI’s stats are shaky right off the bat.
I don't have full access to this site, but if you scroll down, it says there were 831 anti-white hate crimes in 2023.
I'll repeat: about half the 11k+ hate crimes in 2023 were race-based, and about half of those targeted Black people. That's roughly 2.500 race-based hate crimes against non-Black people.
If I were a victim of a crime perpetrated by a Black person, I would not suspect it of being because of my race. For good reason, which I've already stated, it's understandable that a Black person would suspect it was because of race if they were the victim of a crime perpetrated by a white person. That makes them far more likely to report it, which very well may skew the statistics, but this isn't the Victim Olympics. It's not about who is victimized by hate crimes more often. None of it is acceptable. I brought it up because the data says there were 2.500 or so anti-Black hate crimes in 2023. Additionally, this data represents reported crimes. That doesn't include things that fall far short of that threshhold. Y'all are identifying a handful of hoaxes and justifying the dismissal of every claim of anti-Black racism.
 
Not sure I believe you, but you're entitled to say what you want. I look at you as someone who's been conditioned to be the voice of the downtrodden. Or think you are. It sounds good too. I mean who doesn't have compassion for the unlucky? You act as though liberals have cornered the market on having empathy, and if we don't buy it, we are rude, racist...

That couldn't be further from the truth.
I know plenty of conservatives I consider empathetic toward marginalized groups.
As a public educator, I certainly spend more time worrying about those who are struggling than those who are thriving. There are likely parallels in other environments.
Just about everyone can empathize naturally with people similar to themselves. I rarely sense empathy among conservatives here for anyone outside their own culture/community/demographics.
 
Well, this is what I mean by being desperate to keep racism rolling. Key word being "keep". Not dismissing the days where racism was prevalent. But today you have people who aren't experiencing any meaningful racism making claims of racism and you have progressives and the media acting like it is rampant. The past can't excuse present day forever.
Does racism still exist against any historically marginalized racial groups?
 
Does racism still exist against any historically marginalized racial groups?
Well, of course, Dattier. Just not on the scale or of the significance that you and the media want us to belive. Today's racism can be brushed off without having real impacts on anyone's life. Not saying it wouldn't have emotional effects. But people can choose how they respond to it. Most would just choose to avoid the places and the people they know to be racist. Because they know it isn't worth their time to try and change them. It doesn't effect their lives.

Like this guy, do you think his beliefs keep black people from succeeding in life?



Racism will never be at zero. The only thing we can do it keep it out of institutions, corporations, Justice system etc, etc, ect.
 
I knew you wouldn’t. The majority of your arguments are based on emotion. Or at the very least, several that you discuss here are. Once your beliefs based on emotion are challenged, you either dodge the topic or only pick the “easy” parts to address. You know that I would pick apart any “racism” argument you have and that’s why you tread lightly. And I’m not trying to attack you. I’m really not. Just giving my observations.

The only way healing is going to happen is if more black people become independent and have fathers in their households. It’s that simple. If you want to help the black community, try encouraging that. Do some research on how the black community was when they voted Republican.
I've presented an accurate representation of why some people may be more inclined to see racism. I've neither endorsed nor condemned that stance. I've neither endorsed nor condemned the stance you or @GhostOf301 presented. There is nothing emotionally compromised in anything I've said today.

I do not fear your arguments. I am not dodging anything. I was very clear about why I would not go down that rabbit hole. In insinuating otherwise, you are attacking me.

Were you ducking this? "Are you denying that I accurately portrayed a perspective that truly exists? Are you still trying to win while I'm trying to point to a way where healing might happen?" I hadn't meant for those to be rhetorical, but when you skip right to your solution to a tangentially related topic, you kind of make my second question rhetorical after the fact.

Another mini-lesson: the bold above represents places where I'm not claiming anything absolute. That leaves room for other perspectives and other means of healing. Someone who would duck an argument would be unlikely to be deliberate in leaving that space.

Your solution re: healing is to point fingers at Black people only, and claim it's simple. We weren't even talking about the state of the Black family today. We were talking about perceptions about the prevalence of racism.

I'll repeat: "Until we acknowledge that those flipsides can exist simultaneously and stop assuming the worst of the other, it's just gonna perpetuate division." Re: the bold, you've assumed the worst of me several times already today and yesterday every time you act as if you can read my mind and summarize who I am to fit your strawman.
 
Well, of course, Dattier. Just not on the scale or of the significance that you and the media want us to belive. Today's racism can be brushed off without having real impacts on anyone's life. Not saying it wouldn't have emotional effects. But people can choose how they respond to it. Most would just choose to avoid the places and the people they know to be racist. Because they know it isn't worth their time to try and change them. It doesn't effect their lives.

Like this guy, do you think his beliefs keep black people from succeeding in life?



Racism will never be at zero. The only thing we can do it keep it out of institutions, corporations, Justice system etc, etc, ect.
I can't access that video at the mo.

If we agree that racism still exists, then our differences are a matter of degrees. The scale or significance I want y'all to believe is that it's more than zero. I just gave @Mac9192 some examples of times I've broken from the "company line" y'all like to try to pin on me. Where are any examples of you doing the same? Where are any examples of y'all acknowledging any anti-BIPOC racism that has occurred in the last decade?

Emotional effects are real impacts on people's lives. Real impacts can't just be brushed off. When you say otherwise, you are speaking for people whose experience is not your own.

If we are already convinced that racism has been eradicated from our institutions, etc, do we stand a chance of identifying remnants?
 
I can't access that video at the mo.

If we agree that racism still exists, then our differences are a matter of degrees. The scale or significance I want y'all to believe is that it's more than zero. I just gave @Mac9192 some examples of times I've broken from the "company line" y'all like to try to pin on me. Where are any examples of you doing the same? Where are any examples of y'all acknowledging any anti-BIPOC racism that has occurred in the last decade?

Emotional effects are real impacts on people's lives. Real impacts can't just be brushed off. When you say otherwise, you are speaking for people whose experience is not your own.

If we are already convinced that racism has been eradicated from our institutions, etc, do we stand a chance of identifying remnants?
When you get a chance, check the video out. There are more if the same guy going to places known to be anti-non white and talking to people who consider him less than human because he's black.

I'm not sure what company line it is that you want me to break from. But if you're wanting me to give examples of actual racism. There's the Kentucky girl calling the guy the N word. Pretty clear. There's the Charleston church shooter. The Buffalo grocery store shooter. The Georgia guys who killed the black guy are most likely racist and acted due to that. I mean, there's plenty of real examples. But progressives and the media have a higher demand than what is available.

If you allow words or other people's beliefs effect you emotionally to the point that you can't function in life, that is something YOU need to work on. Anything that doesn't have real effects of how you live your life can and should be brushed off.

We do stand a chance of identifying the remnants. Systemic racism does not exist. That doesn't mean that racist individuals within the entire system do not exist. It's hard for individuals to really impact the system, though. But when they are identified, they are removed.
 
When you get a chance, check the video out. There are more if the same guy going to places known to be anti-non white and talking to people who consider him less than human because he's black.

I'm not sure what company line it is that you want me to break from. But if you're wanting me to give examples of actual racism. There's the Kentucky girl calling the guy the N word. Pretty clear. There's the Charleston church shooter. The Buffalo grocery store shooter. The Georgia guys who killed the black guy are most likely racist and acted due to that. I mean, there's plenty of real examples. But progressives and the media have a higher demand than what is available.

If you allow words or other people's beliefs effect you emotionally to the point that you can't function in life, that is something YOU need to work on. Anything that doesn't have real effects of how you live your life can and should be brushed off.

We do stand a chance of identifying the remnants. Systemic racism does not exist. That doesn't mean that racist individuals within the entire system do not exist. It's hard for individuals to really impact the system, though. But when they are identified, they are removed.
Oh, is it Kamau Bell? I like him.

Awesome. Thank you for acknowledging examples.

Well, yes, to some extent others are not responsible for your emotions, but harassment and intimidation do rise to the status of crime, so legally speaking, causing emotional harm can be prosecuted. I fundamentally disagree that emotional harm is the only harm that happens...

...because I believe systemic and institutional racism does still exist. But whether you do or not, you should agree that by definition, it isn't about individuals -- it's about built-in systems and subtle, sometimes benignly intended components of society -- so rooting out individual racists wouldn't preserve the sanctity of our institutions.
 
Just about everyone can empathize naturally with people similar to themselves. I rarely sense empathy among conservatives here for anyone outside their own culture/community/demographics.
Oh I have no doubt the conservatives here have empathy for all kinds of people. It’s just that we disagree with most of the examples the media peddles.
 
I think in identifying that there are different perspectives, I'm demonstrating my awareness of that tendency in myself, which in turn is a pretty good way of checking myself against jumping to conclusions as often as y'all do.

There was a white principal near Charlotte a few years ago who was run out of his job after using the term "colored people" multiple times in a faculty meeting. I strongly suspect he was trying to use the term "people of color," which was newly trending at the time, and just botched it. I defended him on social media and message boards like this one at the time. I also have a close acquaintance who, in attempting to revise a mission statement to be more trans-inclusive, used outdated language and was cancelled by aggressive transpeople and their allies to the point she had to close her business. Another less close acquaintance shuttered a business after being a mediocre boss was leveraged into racism and they were cancelled. I can't think of other specific examples at the moment, but these are not anomalies. This whole "but you do it too" thing is not equally applicable to me personally.

I am very sure that I am not only capable of doing "the same," but much more capable of it than any of y'all here.
You’ve been going on for a while now suggesting that racial hoaxes, while highly visible at times, are also relatively rare. Then you mention two low-key versions of racial hoaxes of people you actually know.
It’s not a stretch to figure many around the country have similar tales of woe. In your haste to show how open minded and fair you are, you unwittingly undermine your own argument , but hey at least you’re fair to both sides.
 
Oh I have no doubt the conservatives here have empathy for all kinds of people. It’s just that we disagree with most of the examples the media peddles.
I would guess that he thinks conservatives in general are less empathetic, because we don’t think the govt is always the solution. If you ever watch Fox News you can’t help but notice how many charities advertise on there, more than any other channel I’ve noticed. At first it was mostly the IFCJ and Tunnels for Towers. That makes sense politically but others have recently joined: charities for homeless children, food banks,etc. Wonder why that is since we’re all so heartless. When we give examples of empathy in our own lives he responds with snark or ignores it altogether.
 
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They think the left holds the empathy cards because they ignore reality and coddle the parts of society that live in delusion and permanent states of victimhood. Speaking harsh truths, to them, means a lack of empathy. If you've known bill his whole life and bill decides to go by Jill and you don't play along, you have no empathy. If you tell your black friend that he can do anything that you can do and live the same way that you can, you lack empathy.
 
You’ve been going on for a while now suggesting that racial hoaxes, while highly visible at times, are also relatively rare. Then you mention two low-key versions of racial hoaxes of people you actually know.
It’s not a stretch to figure many around the country have similar tales of woe. In your haste to show how open minded and fair you are, you unwittingly undermine your own argument , but hey at least you’re fair to both sides.
They weren’t hoaxes. They were different perspectives. That’s been my entire point. I didn’t undermine anything.
 
They think the left holds the empathy cards because they ignore reality and coddle the parts of society that live in delusion and permanent states of victimhood. Speaking harsh truths, to them, means a lack of empathy. If you've known bill his whole life and bill decides to go by Jill and you don't play along, you have no empathy. If you tell your black friend that he can do anything that you can do and live the same way that you can, you lack empathy.
Aaaand back to our regularly scheduled programming. 🙄
 
I would guess that he thinks conservatives in general are less empathetic…
Yes…

…because we don’t think the govt is always the solution.
And huh?
That’s not just idiotically off wrt me, personally; it doesn’t make any kind of logical sense.

When we give examples of empathy in our own lives he responds with snark or ignores it altogether.
Yeah? Try me.
How did I respond when you shared personal info a couple weeks ago about how you’re willing to speak critically of Netanyahu in certain circles but not others? How did I respond when earlier today @GhostOf301 acknowledged examples of racism within the last decade?
Those were moments when you opened up to me about something personal or ghost stepped away from the “company line.” I didn’t take advantage of either one.
 
That the headline would make a point that they all have Democratic sheriffs should be a sign for you that the news you’re consuming is extremely biased.

When Fox News first started, the intention was to counter msm. (I think that compromises them from the jump because at no point were they ever attempting to be an exemplar of good journalism. They were infotainment from inception.) I think it’s fair to say msm as we knew it has been completely castrated. They get killed in the ratings and they can’t even ask a question or print a word without being shouted down as fake news.
Conservative media has replaced legacy media as mainstream now, and their bias is even more extreme because it was the entire point from the beginning. Who is going to check them now?

I’m proud to live in one of those counties. Without a working relationship with immigrant communities, local LEO have trouble investigating crime in those communities. Their objectives are around protecting local communities, serving local interests, solving local crimes. A valued employee contributing to society who happens to have overstayed a visa is less likely to talk to local LEO about what they witnessed if they know LEO is cooperating with ICE. Anyone who has ever seen a single copaganda tv show or movie knows how prickly things get when the feds show up, and more often than not, the FBI is portrayed as interfering and usurping while the local LEO are portrayed as the good guys. ICE violates the Constitition way more than the FBI does, and does all of the same butting-in and interfering in local matters, yet y’all love them?
 
That the headline would make a point that they all have Democratic sheriffs should be a sign for you that the news you’re consuming is extremely biased.

When Fox News first started, the intention was to counter msm. (I think that compromises them from the jump because at no point were they ever attempting to be an exemplar of good journalism. They were infotainment from inception.) I think it’s fair to say msm as we knew it has been completely castrated. They get killed in the ratings and they can’t even ask a question or print a word without being shouted down as fake news.
Conservative media has replaced legacy media as mainstream now, and their bias is even more extreme because it was the entire point from the beginning. Who is going to check them now?

I’m proud to live in one of those counties. Without a working relationship with immigrant communities, local LEO have trouble investigating crime in those communities. Their objectives are around protecting local communities, serving local interests, solving local crimes. A valued employee contributing to society who happens to have overstayed a visa is less likely to talk to local LEO about what they witnessed if they know LEO is cooperating with ICE. Anyone who has ever seen a single copaganda tv show or movie knows how prickly things get when the feds show up, and more often than not, the FBI is portrayed as interfering and usurping while the local LEO are portrayed as the good guys. ICE violates the Constitition way more than the FBI does, and does all of the same butting-in and interfering in local matters, yet y’all love them?
ICE violates the Constitution way more…. Are you thinking of something specific or just throwing a trendy Leftist talking point at the wall and hoping something sticks?

“Limiting” local LEO involvement with Ice and obstructing ICE are two different things and has to be evaluated on a case by case basis. The judge in WI was a good example of the latter
 
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Hope it is not true too. Yikes. Something just seems off about the guy. But I will wait for the facts. Sad. As I said a while back he seems like a complete knucklehead off the court.
 
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Yeah I will hold off on making judgement until all the facts come out in the Zion lawsuit

Also, I scrolled up and read some of the argument that was going on. Unfortunately racism still exists and it’s disgusting. I am a Latino and I’ve experienced it and continue to do so today. Thankfully, I’m someone who will call people out on their disrespect immediately.

All of us are given different hands. To me it’s asinine and repulsive that one can have hate towards another human being solely because the human being doesn’t have their same skin color.
 
…I just want one question answered . Why 2 years later you all of a sudden want 50 million dollars for claimed “emotional distress”.
 
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Yeah I will hold off on making judgement until all the facts come out in the Zion lawsuit

Also, I scrolled up and read some of the argument that was going on. Unfortunately racism still exists and it’s disgusting. I am a Latino and I’ve experienced it and continue to do so today. Thankfully, I’m someone who will call people out on their disrespect immediately.

All of us are given different hands. To me it’s asinine and repulsive that one can have hate towards another human being solely because the human being doesn’t have their same skin color.
Disliking someone solely because of the color of their skin is definitely a negative. Respectfully, my question is how do you know when someone dislikes you because of the color of your skin as opposed to something else?
 
…I just want one question answered . Why 2 years later you all of a sudden want 50 million dollars for claimed “emotional distress”.

We’re all in pretty much wait and see mode officially, but like it or not we’re all beginning to form opinions. A jury will likely find it noteworthy that she is accusing him of raping her twice in 2020 and then had his baby three year later. She also claims physical and emotional abuse but as far as we know allowed him to see his baby without supervision. He claims the relationship was casual: she claims he was a possessive stalker. So seems to be a classic he said/ she said case. He’s got too much to lose; she has nothing. Suggests a settlement.

Evidently not enough evidence at present to file criminal charges so I’d guess he’ll settle ooc It looks less like an admission of guilt if there aren’t criminal charges.
 
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