Some pretty solid points:
https://www.dukebasketballreport.co...&utm_source=twitter&__twitter_impression=true
OFC
https://www.dukebasketballreport.co...&utm_source=twitter&__twitter_impression=true
OFC
Short and long term effects of Tucker transfer-
- Thread starter hart2chesson
- Start date
Seemed pretty common sense to me. Bottom line this is best for both parties. Good luck
I agree and understand, but I also agree w/the writer's perspective of it could hurt the Devils "down the road." He would have potentially been an awesome 8th man NEXT SEASON, and if a 4 yr guy I think we would have seen JT make a solid contribution to the program. Like yourself I wish him the best, and it will be interesting to watch his progress.
OFC
From a pure b-ball perspective i agree. Hell i was one that thought it would be him and not Alex that earned that 8th spot. The two guys are pretty good examples of what happens when you outwork (or don’t) your competition. It didn’t go unnoticed by anyone.
Amen brother....and thats why hard work pays off, and you don't win anything on paper. Timo I gotta say, I would just as soon not see Jordan on an opposing team against us his junior or senior year....However he's got to put in the work first- we'll see...
OFC
I know I ride this horse to def, but kids need to be realistic in choosing where to go to school. Also, consider the redshirt when offered. You will redshirt as a transfer anyway, so consider doing it at the present school.
I don't think there is any question he could have been a useful guy as a junior and senior. But that hypothetical is moot if he is not willing to follow that path.
Best of luck to him wherever he lands.
Best of luck to him wherever he lands.
I can only hope that he finds an opportunity like Semi did with SMU.
I don’t know how I would react in the same situation. My head says a degree from Duke is a good long term investment. My heart might tell me something different.
I don’t know how I would react in the same situation. My head says a degree from Duke is a good long term investment. My heart might tell me something different.
Would be much better than the situation that Thornton has found himself in at USC.
Perfect counter example, the only thing on Thornton’s Christmas list was a time machine.
Thornton listened to the wrong people in his ear. It’s called a life lesson....every one of us has had to learn from one.
I hope Tucker finds what he’s in search of....however, he still gave up less than six months into his freshman season. Now, there could be a myriad of factors....homesick, playing time or Duke not being right for him (the latter isn’t incredibly uncommon). But his comments made it about playing time...and I took them to mean that he folded up like a cheap suit. A premium ‘insider’ at another site said he’d been unhappy already back in October with how he was being used in practice. True? I don’t know, but this guy doesn’t throw around stuff like that very often.
I hope Tucker finds what he’s in search of....however, he still gave up less than six months into his freshman season. Now, there could be a myriad of factors....homesick, playing time or Duke not being right for him (the latter isn’t incredibly uncommon). But his comments made it about playing time...and I took them to mean that he folded up like a cheap suit. A premium ‘insider’ at another site said he’d been unhappy already back in October with how he was being used in practice. True? I don’t know, but this guy doesn’t throw around stuff like that very often.
I get both sides of it, but look at what I've put in bold here... That he could potentially -- maybe, possibly, might could -- be the 8th man, and NEXT year... it's not really setting the bar very high for what we lost. By his senior year here, his contributions projected optimistically to somewhere around Matt Jones or Lee Melchionni or Dave McClure. Those guys are Blue Devils through-and-through and will always hold a special place in our hearts... but if we're honest... we'd have been better off as a team if we'd had teammates around them that reduced their role. (We loved Matt as a soph 5th/6th man on a National Championship team, for example; he was considerably better the next year -- a double-figure scorer, arguably playing above his ability -- yet in a more prominent role he wasn't as popular.)
I wonder how many of us would have admitted that about Matt back then. Very powerful statements, I always felt Matt was brought in to complement Jabari, Hood, Quinn and whomever else. Matt turned out to have carry the team on a few occasions.
Some of what's in bold though is based off of what's coming in next year. It's pretty much a foregone conclusion that Jones, Barrett, and Redish are starters and will get at least 30+ minutes a game. I'm not saying he's good enough or not, but in this day and time, maybe he thinks he made a mistake and wants to display his talents before his junior year. The only truth we know is we don't know how good he is or how much he could have helped. I would have loved for him to stay, but it's not my decision.
Sure, and the way our recruiting is going, there'd have been someone the next year and the next year. Could he have been starting by his senior year? Sure. Would he have been more than the 5th starter? Unlikely. Of course we don't know what might've been; that goes for pretty much every alternate universe.
Somewhere between never-woulda and definitely-woulda is some balance. It's a shame he left... but next play; no big loss... but unfortunate anyway; hurts our future depth and maturity... but we'll be okay.
What I am really wary of is how that sentence I put in bold in your post and the one I put in bold from hart's post could be manipulated into something I find obnoxious and meritless down the road: that our upset loss in the X round of the 20YZ NCAA Tournament is specifically b/c we didn't have Jordan Tucker, and if Coach K had only not inexplicably denied him PT b/c K is so blind and so stubborn... blah, blah, blah.
Just making it a new years resolution to not argue with you. I'm walking on egg shells as I type this. Everyone brings up good points with our kids that stay, ones that don't... Coach K has been at this for a very long time, and runs his teams how he wants to, whether any of us agree or not. Sometimes I don't agree with him. Life goes on.
A discussion isn't an argument.Happy New Year datt! I think a lot of us made the same resolution!
Where am I off in preemptively addressing complaints that K should have just "given" JT PT?
What we know: Tucker wasn’t gonna make any contributions to this year’s team.
He was a scorer in high school and everything else was gonna be work in progress.
We now have an extra scholarship.
What we don’t know: How good he will be the next 3 years.
If he would be better than the other guy who will get his scholarship.
How Tucker fit in with the team and how he adjusted to life at duke.
3 years from now we will know how this works out, everything before then is just speculation.
We lost when Semi and Mike G left, we won when Taylor King, Derryck Thornton , and countless others left. (Jeter leaving i’d be willing to bet works out best for us too.)
He was a scorer in high school and everything else was gonna be work in progress.
We now have an extra scholarship.
What we don’t know: How good he will be the next 3 years.
If he would be better than the other guy who will get his scholarship.
How Tucker fit in with the team and how he adjusted to life at duke.
3 years from now we will know how this works out, everything before then is just speculation.
We lost when Semi and Mike G left, we won when Taylor King, Derryck Thornton , and countless others left. (Jeter leaving i’d be willing to bet works out best for us too.)
Meh. It's always a win when a guy who doesn't want to be here leaves... and it's always a loss in the PR department.
WRT Mike G, specifically, as a third-year soph @ SU, he averaged about 15 minutes and 3.4 ppg. He'd have been competing for PT w/ Jabari, Rodney, Sheed, Dre. He averaged 12 ppg the next year, which would have been his senior year at Duke. He'd have ostensibly earned time here, but as no higher than the 5th option. As a 5th year senior he blew up and was 2nd team ACC. We could have used him on our '15-'16 squad, but that would have entailed his taking a redshirt sometime earlier at Duke.
Semi had the same guys ahead of him who would have been ahead of Gbinije in his season and a half. Again, he may have blossomed later at Duke, but it's hard to see where he should have gotten minutes when he was here. He blew up at SMU in what would have been his senior year at Duke. Would he have done so in the ACC? IDK...
They're the 2 transfers who have had the most success elsewhere, though, for sure.
If that is what you intended your words to mean, fine. But that is not how they necessarily read. When I read them, knowing that you were the author, it seemed to me that you were taking shots at Hart and Mac 9192, and not just "preemptively addressing complaints" which had yet to be made. So, to me, their comments were not dismissive but absolutely on point, and your rejoinder was not discussion, but argument. Ironic, isn't it, that you deservedly find yourself in a place where your ambiguous words are very often going to be interpreted against you. In short, you had no right to whine or to criticize Hart or Mac9192. Happy New Year, Datt.
When I beat him one on one at the Duke quad, I saw it in his eyes.
I have every right to criticize hart or mac, though I did neither. You're guilty here of Bulverism, the act of dismissing something b/c of who it came from and not addressing it for its own merits or lack thereof.
There is no irony outside your judgment that I deserve criticism for a misinterpretation of words that are not ambiguous. What, I have to placate overly sensitive people w/ qualifications every time I post in response to them or else they get paranoid and lash out? That's what all 3 of you have done here. You refused to engage on the matter of basketball, instead choosing to make it personal, about me. After an off-season of moaning that I don't talk basketball and only basketball, now you get all bent out of shape when I do talk basketball. (FYI: That's irony!)
I do agree that each time someone transfers you inevitably get the trolls from other schools and/or those that want to point out MG and Semi as their case studies. As you pointed out even doing so they don’t take into consideration the lack of immediate success and the amount of extra time they had to develop into prospects that had a solid end of their career. One of the great counters to Semi is what ultimately got him to be drafted is what the staff had harped on him from the beginning. Use your body and stop settling for jumpers (simplistic explanation).
I think it goes without saying no one here ever wished that one of the guys that commit to us end up transferring. Many do for a myriad of reasons and as I’ve learned this one was more than just about playingtime now and in the future seasons. Still, i wish the kid well and if he has success in the future that is a testament to his hard work, not a slap at his time at duke or the staff who worked with him (that goes for all of these kids). One door Closes and another opens. We will be fine and hopefully he is as well.
Nobody challenges your right to criticize. But when your criticism can be read as unfair, condescending, and/or unjustified, as I think it often is, you open yourself up to challenges. Your pedantic reference to "Bulverism" completely misses the point. I stated that your explanation of what you meant was "fine", meaning I would take your word for it and had no criticism of your point as you explained it. I went on to explain why, in my view, the dispute arose - ambiguity in your words which, taken together with past history, led me to believe that you were unfairly accusing Hart and Mac9192 of being likely to engage in argument which you personally believe to be obnoxious and meritless. By the way, making what one believes to be a reasonable interpretation of your words is not paranoia, but reasoning based on the circumstances. Finally, it appears that you believe that all of us dumbasses out here should always get your intended meaning, and should not bother you by asking for clarifications when they are not sure what you mean.
You literally said:
L-I-T-E-R-A-L-L-Y.
Not to be pedantic, but there's interesting verb shift here, from how my words "can be" read to how they are ("is") read. I point it out b/c my needing to tiptoe around until I've gained your trust and your needing to quit reading things into what I said are two different things, and not mutually exclusive. Why don't you accept that graceful out rather than try to claim this is a situation warranting only the former?
I just used "pedantic" properly in that last bit. Take note.
That bold part at the end? More on that later, but here it completely undoes all the non-judging and accepting of words you claim right before it.
"Bulverism" is entirely the point. Your justification of how I might have been interpreted was based entirely on some perception of who I am and assuming the worst about my intentions. After briefly claiming you will take me at my word, you "went on to explain..."
There was no ambiguity. I specified that a sentence from each of their posts could be manipulated. There is no implication that they would do the manipulating; in fact, I was explaining where I was coming from and describing myself as "wary."
Oh, and there's that "past history" again, too.
And when you're wrong, it is most likely paranoia after all.
Who even attempted to ask for clarification? You didn't. They didn't. The only person who asked anything was me, wondering what I said to warrant dismissiveness. I'd be happy to elaborate on what I consider obnoxious and why it is meritless, but no one asked. If you want to know, ask. If you don't, don't. If you are pretending you already asked, you're wrong.
I've been suspended from various rivals boards for using profane acronyms (among other things). I don't even do that traditional chant directed at UNC w/o spelling the "H" out as "heck" anymore ("Got to heck, Carolina; go to heck!"). I didn't even use the correct number of asterisks in that bold, censored word from your post!
I state all of that to point out that when you use that word implying that's what I'm calling y'all, you're projecting, prevaricating, conflating, and inflating an erroneous characterization of me. That's pure applesauce.
In short, since that phrase apparently means nothing anymore, you rationalized boorish treatment of me when undeserved, calling it deserved b/c of perceived past offenses having nothing to do w/ the discussion at hand, all while pulling the weaselly move of pretending you were being oh-so gracious as to give me the benefit of the doubt.
seems to be what all the fuss is about^^^^
but I didn't realize it was called Bulverism. learn something new every day.
True statement. If he was bringing negative energy into the locker room, then it's a win for the team. And believe it or not, our last two national championship teams had players transfer out before January (Olek Czyz and Semi). Would have liked to seem him play it out, but if he wants immediate PT, he probably did himself a favor - and Duke a favor.
