Shifting winds at Duke?
- Thread starter christophero
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I’d absolutely say the winds of change are swirling. Just look at the HoF coaches that have retired in the past few years. That alone should have been the canary in the coal mine.
The changing landscape of the transfer portal in conjunction with NIL is just getting started, and it’s already been chaotic. It hasn’t happened yet, but just wait until three sophomores (or juniors, or whatever) all decide to transfer to… someplace. A package deal that happens for any of a number of reasons, can’t be explained, and decimates a program overnight. It’s going to happen.
I empathize over the frustration that the NIL situation causes some folks. The potential to go back in time to when kids were getting thousand dollar handshakes is absolutely there. My question is: did it ever really leave? Or, did it simply go underground?
I get the argument that, these kids get a pretty sweet deal and all that. But, is it right for, say, A video game company to pay massive amounts of money to the NCAA, use players’ likenesses and skills, and yet the players see nothing? How about a gifted coder in college creating an app, selling it and making millions in the process? The list is endless. Point is, something had to give.
I’m hoping that Scheyer can more easily adapt to the tectonics of this new era. He’s indicated that he’s no longer continuing the trend of filling the roster with the most talent, regardless of how well they fit. If we look at the NCAA Tournament, only two teams have won it with such a roster. Us, and Kentucky. Two teams that, on paper, that should have won it all a few more times than they did.
The rules are what they are now. Adapt. Learn. Change. Grow. Win.
The changing landscape of the transfer portal in conjunction with NIL is just getting started, and it’s already been chaotic. It hasn’t happened yet, but just wait until three sophomores (or juniors, or whatever) all decide to transfer to… someplace. A package deal that happens for any of a number of reasons, can’t be explained, and decimates a program overnight. It’s going to happen.
I empathize over the frustration that the NIL situation causes some folks. The potential to go back in time to when kids were getting thousand dollar handshakes is absolutely there. My question is: did it ever really leave? Or, did it simply go underground?
I get the argument that, these kids get a pretty sweet deal and all that. But, is it right for, say, A video game company to pay massive amounts of money to the NCAA, use players’ likenesses and skills, and yet the players see nothing? How about a gifted coder in college creating an app, selling it and making millions in the process? The list is endless. Point is, something had to give.
I’m hoping that Scheyer can more easily adapt to the tectonics of this new era. He’s indicated that he’s no longer continuing the trend of filling the roster with the most talent, regardless of how well they fit. If we look at the NCAA Tournament, only two teams have won it with such a roster. Us, and Kentucky. Two teams that, on paper, that should have won it all a few more times than they did.
The rules are what they are now. Adapt. Learn. Change. Grow. Win.
I know the college game isn't as pure as many have in their mind, but we are getting to it being little difference between college and pros. The NIL and transfer portal as it is now? I have zero faith that it's going to improve.
Bobby Knight said it best years ago about the NCAA: that if they had been in charge of the WWII invasion of Normandy, we would have wound up on the shores of Greece.
I get your point entirely. I’ll freely admit, I don’t have the answer. Perhaps we’re witnessing the fall of Rome with regards to the NCAA. I’m not really sure. Pandora’s Box was opened. So, perhaps this will put enough stress on the system to make it break. I don’t think it’s going to get better until it falls under its own weight. Hang in there. Are these not exciting times? Are you not entertained?
Bobby Knight stumbled onto a few rational thoughts in between trolling college basketball, head-butting and choking players, throwing chair, cursing and basically being an abusive asshole. It wasn’t often, that he hit the nail on the head. But… once or twice every decade, he managed it.
The rule changes, while understandable, make it less enjoyable for me as a fan. It seems like it is slowly turning into a semipro league. Guys should be able to go pro after high school without waiting. But this whole free agent NIL thing is going to spiral out of control. I still like college basketball; but hardly anyone I know watches it except for March Madness. That said I am still excited about next year. They need to do away with this transfer and not sit out rule. I think it is ending soon, but I'm not sure.
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To play Blue Devil’s advocate, has it not been a semi-pro league now for some time? When a player chooses to go to college for one year, they’re using college basketball as the best vantage point by which to showcase their skills to the NBA. In some cases, they subordinate this, elevating the needs of the team over their need to shine. But honestly? That’s increasingly rare. They have one goal. The NBA. That means not getting hurt while allowing for their draft stock to rise.
Do you think Banchero really gave it his all while at Duke? I don’t. I just think he was that much better than most out there. Look at him in the NBA. Do you think he just grew up overnight? He’s averaging better overall stats in the NBA than he did at Duke. That should kinda tell you something.
Don’t get me wrong. This is business. Big business. Millions of dollars are on the line. But, this all plays into my point. College basketball has, for years, been the minor league of the NBA.
OADs are less than one percent of college basketball players. But I hear you. I'm not a fan of OAD but I do think Banchero gave his all at Duke. It's hard to come right in and dominate.
Coach K survived and was the better for it. He was so traumatized by his time at Army that he joined Knight’s staff at IU. Lest we forget, without Coach Knight’s call to AD Tom Butters, K would have never been hired at Duke and Lord knows where this program would be.
All of what you say is true and don’t mean to get on a high horse but feel some of our younger posters take all this for granted
When the idea of NIL was being floated it was generally discussed that players would be somewhat compensated for value added to the school as well as their name image and likeness eg video games, jerseys, etc
What we didn’t hear much about was it being used as a recruiting tool eg Pack getting a 800 k deal to go to Miami when he hasn’t made Miami a dime yet and no one had heard of him
Knight was a great coach but not a very good human being. I'm sorry he is in poor health but if he choked my kid I'd be in his office in a heartbeat asking for his resignation.
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This is true. Perhaps, it’s the minor leagues with regards to the premier programs. Duke. Kentucky. Kansas. Basically, the Calipari model. With enough talent, who needs cohesion? Rinse. Repeat.
I think that the NCAA should adopt a variant of the baseball model. Allow whoever wants to go pro to do so. Those that elect to go to college must do so for two years.
Knight was a product of his time. For most of his career, the things he did were more common. Unfortunately, his time coaching spanned two different eras. He was always going to resist change. The difference in Knight and Krzyzewski, Williams and company, is that the latter saw the writing on the wall.
My dad is 80 and never put his hands on a player. What time are we talking about?
Knight is one of the best coaches to ever do it. He also failed to adapt to change, both can be true.
Personally, I wish K was a product of someone else’s coaching tree, because I am not a Knight fan, but that is mainly because I grew up in Indiana as a Duke fan, so my hatred mainly is towards IU in general. That fan base is something else, and I’ll leave it at that.
Personally, I wish K was a product of someone else’s coaching tree, because I am not a Knight fan, but that is mainly because I grew up in Indiana as a Duke fan, so my hatred mainly is towards IU in general. That fan base is something else, and I’ll leave it at that.
Then he wouldn’t have been “K”
I was coached by a Knight disciple in high school, many years ago. He ran us to death, screamed at us until he was hoarse, but never touched us. He tested our limits and although I hated the guy, it taught me to push my boundaries. I think Coach K was that kind of disciple--maybe learned some bad habits from Knight but at least knew how not to take it too far.
I met Knight at the mall once in Bloomington.
I said, “Hi coach Knight! I’m a big fan!”
He said, and I quote, “Who the f*** do you think you f***ing are? I don’t go up to you and f***ing bother you on your f***ing day off! F*** off, you little pissant.”
I was 18. It was 1992. So yeah… eff that dude. I wasn’t trying to have a conversation. I just said hi. I was respectful to him even after that though.
“Hey. Thanks for teaching Krzyzewski. We appreciate it. Have a great day!”
He stalked off, grumbling.
I’m not saying he wasn’t a great coach. He clearly was. But my god… I was a kid.
Go to youtube and watch his golf outtakes. It's pretty funny
Coach Knight was no doubt a very great college basketball coach, but he had his personality issues. If you read the biography of Coach K by by Ian O Connor, you learn Coach Knight became a jerk to Coach K and was the main reason their relationship faltered.
Yeah. He’s a straight-up dick. I know about a dozen Jacobs people with similar stories. Apparently, it was a somewhat well-known fact that you don’t engage Bob Knight. Anywhere. Ever. Under any circumstances.
Oh. Knight was insanely jealous of Krzyzewski’s accomplishments at Duke. I’m not sure when it got nasty. But, according to everything I’ve heard, it was mostly Knight who cut ties.
Does it make me sad that he’s in poor health? Yes. It has to be especially bad for one like Knight, who is such a domineering personality.
Knight was one of the greatest coaches, but, like others have said, it could be a challenge to interact with him. I saw his interview with Jeremy Schapp. To say he was rude to Jeremy was an understatement. He was very respectful to Knight in spite of Coach trying to dominate the interview, and even told him something to the effect of “you’re not near as good as your daddy was.”
To sum him up, he was a do as I say, not as I do type of person.
To sum him up, he was a do as I say, not as I do type of person.
Knight seemed like a bully. The Indiana kid he choked was small and skinny. PJ Carlisimo found out what happens when you get up in the face of the wrong guy.
Knight thought Jeremy was a nepo baby.
We have been absolutely spoiled by some of the OAD kids we have had come through the program. I can understand and agree with slowly shifting away from the freshman dominant model, but we have seen sooo many talented and dominant freshman come through the program.
Speaking of OAD, a season full of highlights came through youtube this morning while I was on there with Vernon Carey highlights. Talk about an underrated kid. He was incredible.
Speaking of OAD, a season full of highlights came through youtube this morning while I was on there with Vernon Carey highlights. Talk about an underrated kid. He was incredible.
Best player on a lost season. Sucks that team was going to go far
Everyone on this board is a better human then me . You choke my kid, there isn’t a reason to ask for your resignation! Just saying ( awful comment I know but the truth).
Roach absolutely can! He's checking his draft status and maybe right now he's not a first round pick but he can certainly come back and play his way into the first round!
I've been hearing some good things about Power so I watched some highlights. He looks good. Has a nice stroke. Reminds me of a less skinny Dunleavy. Kid could be a sleeper next year. Is a little more solidly built than I expected; and isn't afraid to mix it up down low. Could be a really solid 3-4 year guy. Seems to be a Singler type of wing more than a Flip or Banchero. Maybe Brakefield is a good comp, a mobile wing. Is very skilled; if slightly slow.
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1992 is around the time K began surpassing Knight, including Duke's win over IU in the 1992 Final Four. And, yes, Knight did not handle it well and he was starting from a baseline of being personality challenged. He didn't cheat on the recruiting trail, his players were good students who graduated and his basketball IQ is/was second to none. But his Parris Island instructor shtick got old in a hurry, He wasn't training Marines to take Iwo Jima for crying out loud.
I think he has and will have a very mixed legacy.
I get the army discipline stuff but he took it waaaaay too far. Not saying he has to hug all his fans but he could have said "thanks" and walked away. That almost sounds like biploar behavior.
We have. Some of them work out, some don’t. What I’m advocating for is less of an arms race.
Knight is a classic case of a coach staying too long. Myles Brand was over his antics from the moment he walked onto campus. He viewed Knight as a lightning rod. I know of a few lawsuits the university kept quiet regarding Knight, and while they’re nothing compared to what we see today, his absolute disregard for authority (except his own) led to his downfall. He thought he was bigger than the school at which he taught. His behavior became increasingly erratic. Ultimately, the child of an Indy shock jock took him down… and I’m pretty much convinced that Brand was in on it. Giving a guy like Knight a zero tolerance policy is pretty much the death knoll. But, it was suspicious in more than a few ways. Knight should have retired after 1992. Hindsight’s always 20/20, but my god. He had to see it coming.
He either had too high an opinion of himself and thought it would never happen; or he just didn't care.
Iirc around 92 was when he and Deano played golf together in the Chapel Hill area and he didn’t contact Coach K that he was in town. Petty and childish. Bottom line when Duke beat IU in the Final Four he couldn’t handle it and that was when their relationship took a nose dive. They reconciled years later but K never really forgot that post game nonsense.
The incident with the whip at the press conf was him coming out and letting the world know: If you ever had your doubts before I have officially become unhinged
KD you are right on point. That same football season (following Duke's back to back natty completion), Knight showed up on an ABC Network regional football telecast.It was a UNC game in Chapel Hill, and the announcers asked him " What are you doing in town?"
With GREAT EMPHASIS, Knight said: "Well I am here visiting my GOOD FRIEND Dean Smith." The interview lasted a few more minutes and the word Duke was not even mentioned. Duke and more importantly K's success was gnawing away at Knight, much like it was Smith.
OFC
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