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^ Fact, do not feel we land Ingram.. used too but that feeling is slipping. K will get a PG, I'd bet cash money on it.Originally posted by dukiejay:
Ugh....you again.
K will get a point guard. Bank on it. Allen and Jones will play significant minutes. My guess is Kennard plays a role similar to Sulaimon before his dismissal. That, of course, assumes we get Ingram....which I don't feel as good about as some.
Under your scenario of Duke landing a PG and missing on Ingram, don't see Jones fading anywhere at all. We'd literally only have 4 perimeter players for 3 positions. If that ends up happening, I bet we end up with each of these guys playing about 30 minutes a night -- with Jones being out there to add toughness and defend the opposition's best player. While I think Kennard's going to be very good offensively, I think defense may be a bit of an issue -- and I'm not sure Grayson or DT are good enough to compensate for that. I think we'll need Matt out there a bunch to keep the opposition's best perimeter player in check.Originally posted by CatcherForLife6:
^ Fact, do not feel we land Ingram.. used too but that feeling is slipping. K will get a PG, I'd bet cash money on it.Originally posted by dukiejay:
Ugh....you again.
K will get a point guard. Bank on it. Allen and Jones will play significant minutes. My guess is Kennard plays a role similar to Sulaimon before his dismissal. That, of course, assumes we get Ingram....which I don't feel as good about as some.
I also think that Jones will gradually fade into the dark with the emergence of Kennard. If the hype is real with Kennard he's going to be special. Jones to me was love or hate last year. That's just my opinion on him. I think Grayson will emerge next year as one of the go to guys on this team. Give him a full off season with this program and he will be deadly.
I like your use of the word continue because that's exactly it, Matt progressed a great deal from freshman year to sophomore year. He was a stand still shooter in his freshman year and his shooting numbers were not very good. From his freshman year to his sophomore year his shooting numbers improved, his defense improved and he actually developed his game to the point where he was driving the ball to the hoop when the opportunity presented itself. Matt is your typical 4 year Duke guy that is going to glue a lot of different teams together and do whatever is necessary to maximize the overall success of each team. 9 one and dones is a great thing to have but come March I want a blend of the talent that comes with a one and done and veteran leadership that you get from glue guys like Matt and Amile and Quinn.Originally posted by dukiejay:
Well, Matt is a bit of a known commodity. What I mean by that is Duke fans have seen him for two years so they assume he'll be next year what he was this year. I think Matt, like so many players before him, is going to continue to grow and expand his offensive game. We already know how he defends. So there really isn't a scenario I can foresee where he isn't one of the main cogs on the 2015-16 Duke team.
Matt will fade based on what? He has only progressed in his first two years at Duke and plays lock down defense. K also likes to play him. Sounds like a guy who is primed to play big minutes to me. Of course I base this all on K's history and the fact that Matt Jones has already proven he can play.Originally posted by calibluedevil:
Agree with the poster stating Jones will fade. I posted that during the regular season. Matt definitely played well in the tournament so maybe I'll be wrong. But I think both, Luke and Grayson are much better players. Jmho.
While I really like Grayson as a prospect, I do tend to think that the Wisconsin game may have left us with a very unrealistic impression of his current skill-level offensively. If you rewatch the title game, a large number of his points came in transition and off of straightline drives to the rim where he simply outathleted Wisconsin's somewhat slow-of-foot perimeter players -- and, in some cases, where they simply let him drive to his strong hand. I doubt a lot of those looks will be available against quicker guards and / or teams who gameplan to take away his strengths. I think he's got a lot of natural talent and will only get better. But, not sure if he's got enough ball handling creativity, mid-range game, etc. to be a consistent, high-volume scoring punch if teams are focused on stopping him -- unlike Wisconsin, whose scouting report on Grayson was probably like 2 lines discussing alley-oops and 3s.Originally posted by chov1125:
Why does everyone think that if we get Ingram GA becomes a sixth man? I think GA is one of it not our best player next year. From what I have seen and what I have read this incoming class does not compare to the class before it or the class after it. I think a sophmore GA starts over a frosh Ingram. IMO.
Maybe, but when I look at Grayson's skill set I see a kid who is ultra athletic, has a smooth shot and can get to the rim and finish around contact. Personally I have much more confidence in Grayson taking a big step forward than an incoming freshman who is likely to be pushed around due to his slight frame. Does Ingram have a ton of talent, yes. But I have seen Grayson succeed on the biggest stage that college basketball has to offer and am confident that he will work on the areas of his game, namely ball handling, that need improving. I fully expect Grayson to be a leader next year and am optimistic that if all goes well he may be 2 and done. You are right that he is slightly overvalued right now because it was the championship game, but if NBA scouts like his skill set, so do I.Originally posted by aah555:
While I really like Grayson as a prospect, I do tend to think that the Wisconsin game may have left us with a very unrealistic impression of his current skill-level offensively. If you rewatch the title game, a large number of his points came in transition and off of straightline drives to the rim where he simply outathleted Wisconsin's somewhat slow-of-foot perimeter players -- and, in some cases, where they simply let him drive to his strong hand. I doubt a lot of those looks will be available against quicker guards and / or teams who gameplan to take away his strengths. I think he's got a lot of natural talent and will only get better. But, not sure if he's got enough ball handling creativity, mid-range game, etc. to be a consistent, high-volume scoring punch if teams are focused on stopping him -- unlike Wisconsin, whose scouting report on Grayson was probably like 2 lines discussing alley-oops and 3s.Originally posted by chov1125:
Why does everyone think that if we get Ingram GA becomes a sixth man? I think GA is one of it not our best player next year. From what I have seen and what I have read this incoming class does not compare to the class before it or the class after it. I think a sophmore GA starts over a frosh Ingram. IMO.
Ingram probably hurts on defense, but his shooting ability / length ensure that he'll be able to fill-up the offensive box score at the collegiate level. With enough touches / looks, Ingram's easily a 15+ scorer on day 1.
This post was edited on 4/17 3:48 PM by aah555
Yes, agreed. I think Wisconsin clearly wasn't quick enough on the perimeter to stay in front of him -- and Grayson will have success against some teams doing exactly that. My point is only that Wisconsin's Achilles heal on defense all season was their inability to stop dribble penetration, and the fact that Grayson could beat guys like Gosser / Dekker off the dribble when they were basically left on islands (i.e., Wisconsin refused to help off our shooters to cut off his drives) doesn't necessarily tell me a ton about how he'll do against far more athletic perimeters (especially now that teams will be far more aware of him on the court). I am particularly thinking of a bunch of games even late in the season when he was getting minutes -- like ND and @ UNC -- where he struggled to get any penetration and got forced into a number of somewhat wild layup attempts from tough angles.Originally posted by denniden:
Grayson Allen, coming into Duke last year, was known as a slasher who attacks the paint. It is his best attribute and one that scouts, everywhere, know about. Sometimes the player gets to his strong hand for a reason. Sometimes a player is just better and quicker than his defender. Allen took a few people off the dribble that were bigger defenders. He will certainly have to adjust when defenses start focusing more on him, but good player do adjust. Heck Allen adjusted this year when team crowded him on the 3 point line. He took them off the dribble. Which was his strength anyway.
Do you always speak in absolutes, or do you visit reality on occasion?Originally posted by adm015:
If Coach K gets a PG and Brandon Ingram decides to come to Duke what player between Allen, Jones and Kennard will not see any playing time?
If Ingram goes to another team how would Duke look with Kennard playing SF and Allen at SG?
I agree. If UNC is his dream then that's where he should go no matter the ever so slight possibilities of some sanctions. I can imagine if I were the elite player he is and being a Duke fan and Coach K wanting me the way HOF Coach Roy Williams wants Ingram there is no doubt I would go to Duke no matter what is going on within the program. I f he doesn't go to UNC being the UNC fan he is he won't be happy. OFCOriginally posted by kingbluedevil:
I hope Brandon Ingram goes to Carolina where his heart is. We will be fine if we can find a point guard.
Personally, I don't view recruiting in such stark terms. While it would be great if everyone who played here grew up dreaming of playing at Duke, reality is we wouldn't have a very good team if we limited ourselves to only recruiting players who bleed royal blue through and through. J-WIll and QCook obviously come to mind immediately (guys who wanted to go to UNC and, in J-Will's case, resented the fact that they didn't offer him), but even others like Luke Kennard -- who grew up a hardcore UK fan, but ultimately turned down UK, Jon Scheyer -- who hated Duke and rooted against us when attending the 01 title game, or Jabari Parker, who by all accounts initially had his heart set on going to MSU, are only a handful of the many guys who ultimately picked Duke b/c their heads eventually told them that Duke afforded them the best opportunity to achieve their athletic and academic goals.Originally posted by skysdad:
I agree. If UNC is his dream then that's where he should go no matter the ever so slight possibilities of some sanctions. I can imagine if I were the elite player he is and being a Duke fan and Coach K wanting me the way HOF Coach Roy Williams wants Ingram there is no doubt I would go to Duke no matter what is going on within the program. I f he doesn't go to UNC being the UNC fan he is he won't be happy. OFCOriginally posted by kingbluedevil:
I hope Brandon Ingram goes to Carolina where his heart is. We will be fine if we can find a point guard.
I doubt Kennard's minutes would be anywhere near that limited even if we land Ingram and DT. For starters, DT's got quite a jump from being a jr. in high school to a starting PG at Duke. While I think he'd be the primary option on day 1, I doubt he's going to be more than about a 25-30 min. guy on average -- with Kennard assuming the backup PG duty. Also, I anticipate that Ingram will probably see a decent number of minutes at the stretch 4 where the matchups allow it (i.e., against teams that play undersized or lean 4s) -- which will open up minutes at the 1-3.Originally posted by mo.st.dukie:
In this scenario I would think Kennard would get the least amount of minutes but he would still get 6-10 mpg, maybe slightly more. If we get a PG and Ingram I think we will start both of them plus Matt with Grayson and Luke off the bench. That's 5 players for 3 positions so not too crowded and of course in late game situations and perhaps other situations we'll have 4 of the 5 on the floor.
If Ingram chose elsewhere, Duke would still be really good with either Kennard or Allen at the 3. Both have good size to play the college 3 as does Matt and both can score the basketball. IMO, a PG is a bigger need but still would love to get Ingram as his height and length could add something different into the mix.
This post was edited on 4/19 11:55 PM by mo.st.dukie
Agreed. His defense is really good and he should be a candidate for the All-American Defensive team his senior year. And, has he continues to work on his shooting and ball handling - he could be a really solid player. But, defense will get him a lot of minutes.Originally posted by dukiejay:
Well, Matt is a bit of a known commodity. What I mean by that is Duke fans have seen him for two years so they assume he'll be next year what he was this year. I think Matt, like so many players before him, is going to continue to grow and expand his offensive game. We already know how he defends. So there really isn't a scenario I can foresee where he isn't one of the main cogs on the 2015-16 Duke team.
What's weird about this is that he was a much better player in Year 2 than he was in Year 1. So why would anyone think he wouldn't get any better from Year 2 to Year 3? Sure, he could plateau, but I don't know why that would be anyone's default assumption based on the evidence. The dude played serious minutes on a National Championship team --- I can't understand why anyone would think he's going away.Originally posted by dukiejay:
Well, Matt is a bit of a known commodity. What I mean by that is Duke fans have seen him for two years so they assume he'll be next year what he was this year.