All-Time Duke Roster?

[Dattier]

Alright, with more than a week between games, I've been thinking of speculative topics typically reserved for the off-season.

Who makes your all-time Duke roster, 13 "scholarship" players? There happens to be exactly 13 retired jerseys, but I want to add this wrinkle: You can only have five off that list. So who do you take? Up to 5 of those guys, plus another 8 to get you to 13... and let's say you get two more guys who would be the equivalent of walk-ons (though they don't have to be), guys who wouldn't sniff the Top 50 Blue Devils of all-time list, but who brought some kind of spark, fire, intangibles.

The 13 retired jersey guys, roughly by position, though we're not bound to that:
Pg- Groat, Hurley, and JWill
Sg- Mullins, JD, and JJ
SF- Grant
PF- Heyman, Ferry, Battier
C- Gminski, Laettner, Shelden

I have a hard time seeing how anyone's all-time team wouldn't include Grant and Laettner unless you just think there is enough depth among non-retired jersey guys to double-up at another position.

My "walk-ons" are Tyler Thornton and Dave McClure. I'll weigh-in w/ the rest of my team in a bit, if the thread gets any action.

 

[K-oach Q]

This was insanely hard but here goes.....only five retired players makes it extremely difficult!!

I threw positions out the window because Coach K says he doesn't like limiting players by positions and wants the five best players.....so I'm going that route..most of these players are interchangeable. I would add stats and information but that would take forever..........

Five Retired:

J. Williams
Johnny Dawkins
Christian Laettner
Grant Hill
Shane Battier

Best of the rest:

Gene Banks
Elton Brand
Chris Duhon
Randy Denton
Dick Groat
Luol Deng

Walk Ons (Not Top 50 Duke Players)

Kyrie Irving
Antonio Lang

 

[Dukesince90]

This was insanely hard but here goes.....only five retired players makes it extremely difficult!!

I threw positions out the window because Coach K says he doesn't like limiting players by positions and wants the five best players.....so I'm going that route..most of these players are interchangeable. I would add stats and information but that would take forever..........

Five Retired:

J. Williams
Johnny Dawkins
Christian Laettner
Grant Hill
Shane Battier

Best of the rest:

Gene Banks
Elton Brand
Chris Duhon
Randy Denton
Dick Groat
Luol Deng

Walk Ons (Not Top 50 Duke Players)

Kyrie Irving
Antonio Lang

Like your list, I think Justise Winslow would make my list if he had played four years. He just seemed like a great competitor that hated to loose, I mean lose.

 

[skysdad]

I'm not about to attempt this because I would have 25 plus guys on the team. OFC

 

[K-oach Q]

Like your list, I think Justise Winslow would make my list if he had played four years. He just seemed like a great competitor that hated to loose, I mean lose.

Damn I'll be honest I didn't even think about last years team when I was doing this. I would probably put Okafor as my walk on instead of Antonio Lang. I don't consider him or Kyrie top 50 all-time but they sure as hell would of been!!

 

[K-oach Q]

I'm not about to attempt this because I would have 25 plus guys on the team. OFC

Haha....you can only have 13. It's kinda fun to try and do...even when your done your like man.....I don't know.

 

[DukeDenver]

I build my squad around the three Plumlees, Zoub and Cherokee Parks.

 

[Dattier]

Nice list, K-oach. Among retired jerseys, that's 4 of my top 7, the others being Hurley, JJ, and Shelden. I ultimately went w/ JWill over Bobby and JJ over JD. It's tempting to trade out my ALL-TIME FRICKIN' favorite Shane for Shelden b/c Shelden's shot-blocking as a college 5 was pretty unique and the stretch 4 is one of Duke's deepest... but I can't. JD is the first freakin' great I ever saw -- the sucky year he was a freshman was when I first started rooting for Duke -- but he drops from almost beating JJ to #8 for the purposes of the roster-building in this thread.

You snuck Groat into the next 8, but he's retired, and I think Kyrie is stretching what I meant by "walk-on," and maybe Lang, too... but that was a weirdly defined thing anyway, so no worries. I picked TT and Troy McClure, but I'd say Andre Buckner, Lee Melchionni, Danny Meagher, Marshall Plumlee, and Sean Dockery would be candidates. They wouldn't sniff the floor in a lot of games, but they'd take "valuable practice player" to a whole new level.

I might include Kyrie in my next 8. Maybe. Kyle, Banks, and Scheyer are certainties. Amaker likely. Nolan likely. (Nolan and Scheyer were among the truest combo guards I've seen at Duke, so their versatility is appealing; I don't care if they're the same era.)

Aside from the guys I've already mentioned, I'd be considering these guys for the final spots: Brand, Jah, Zoubek, R Kelly, Tyus, Justise.

Okay...

JWill, JJ, Grant, Shane, Laet
Kyle, Banks, Scheyer, Nolan, Amaker, Brand, Justise, Jah
TT and McClure

 

[pisgah101]

I'll go with
Starters - JJ, Laetner, Battier, Hurley, Grant
Next 8- Justice, Kyrie, Singler, Mason, Mike D, Nolan Smith, Boozer, Tyus
Walk ons- Dave McClure, Lee Melcheoni(sp?)

 

[DiehardDukeFan4Life]

It's going to take me awhile to come up with a list. One question just so I'm clear, we get 13 scholarship players plus 2 walk-on players for a total of 15 players on our team? Only 5 can be players with retired jerseys and 8 scholarship players plus 2 walk-ons (they don't had to actually be players that were walk-ons though) correct?

 

[Dattier]

It's going to take me awhile to come up with a list. One question just so I'm clear, we get 13 scholarship players plus 2 walk-on players for a total of 15 players on our team? Only 5 can be players with retired jerseys and 8 scholarship players plus 2 walk-ons (they don't had to actually be players that were walk-ons though) correct?

Yep. I envision the "walk-on" spots as guys who wouldn't compete for PT, but who would be legendary practice players, known for hustle, guts, smarts, intangibles, leadership... stuff like that. Future coaching material, maybe.

 

[skysdad]

Ok I'll give a shot using players only who used up their eligibility..

Starters
1. Gminski
2. Dawkins
3. Laettner
4. Hill
5. Hurley.

Bench
1. Banks
2. Singler
3. Amaker
4. Denton
5. Spanarkel
6. Langdon
7. Alarie
8. Brickey.

OFC

 

[HuffyJB]

I build my squad around the three Plumlees, Zoub and Cherokee Parks.

But wouldn't you be worried about being undersized?

 

[HuffyJB]

Tough when you limit the retired jerseys, but that makes it more interesting.

Starter: Hurley, Redick, Hill, Battier, Laettner (there go my five retirees right off the bat)

Bench - Singler, N. Smith, K. Irving, J. Okafor, Carrawell, Dunleavy, Brand, T. Jones

 

[youngman42]

C - Laettner, F - G. Hill, G - JD, G - JJ, F - Battier off the retired list.

Next 8:
Brand - C
Boozer - C/F
Singler - F
Amaker - G
Banks - F
Dunleavy - F
Irving - G
Alarie - C/F

2 Walk-Ons: Wojo - G; Chris Duhon - G.

Mark Alarie is not on the radar much these days, but he was a truly great player on the 86 team. Best player aside from Dawkins but he was right there. People may not remember that he was an excellent mid-range shooter and a very solid defender in spite of being out-manned from a size standpoint.

Three players I really wanted on the team were David Henderson, Scheyer and Luol Deng. But, I picked Wojo and Duhon as my walkons because I think they both bring their own brand of leadership, team play, passing ability, and defensive intensity. Duhon was great at getting steals and Wojo was the ultimate floor-slapping defender (though Dawkins and Amaker brought great defensive intensity as well - often forgotten).

 

[dbav]

Hurley, Redick, G. Hill, Gminski, Battier. I think that's my 5 retired.

Tyus Jones, Daniel Ewing, Demarcus Nelson, Mike Dunleavy, Kyle Singler, Jahlil Okafor, Luol Deng, and Elton Brand.

Quinn Cook and Jon Scheyer as my walk ons.

I certainly could substitute Laettner for Gminski (never saw Gminski play), but he was a monster rebounder and that would be needed. I also have a hard time leaving out the Alaskan Assassin.

 

[dukedevilz]

Cook and Scheyer as walk-ons? They both won national titles as starting guards. Scheyer is easily a top 25 player IMHO. 2077 points for 10th all-time, leading scorer on 2010 title team, 2nd-team All-American, 2nd in voting for 2010 ACC POY. Cook is 28th all-time on Duke's scoring list with 1571 points and 7th all-time in assists with 509. I would also disagree with the Duhon inclusion as a walk-on as he also won a national title, is a top 50 scorer, and 2nd all-time in assists. The OP asked for the walk-ons that wouldn't even sniff the top 50 list.

 

[dukedevilz]

Jason Williams
Jeff Mullins
Grant Hill
Danny Ferry
Christian Laettner

Nolan Smith
Trajan Langdon
Jim Spanarkel
Mark Alarie
Kyle Singler
Mike Dunleavy
Elton Brand
Mason Plumlee

Marty Clark
Casey Sanders

 

[dbav]

Cook and Scheyer as walk-ons? They both won national titles as starting guards. Scheyer is easily a top 25 player IMHO. 2077 points for 10th all-time, leading scorer on 2010 title team, 2nd-team All-American, 2nd in voting for 2010 ACC POY. Cook is 28th all-time on Duke's scoring list with 1571 points and 7th all-time in assists with 509. I would also disagree with the Duhon inclusion as a walk-on as he also won a national title, is a top 50 scorer, and 2nd all-time in assists. The OP asked for the walk-ons that wouldn't even sniff the top 50 list.

I believe Dat's criteria as walk ons was guys you would not necessarily consider top 50 all time for Duke and that might contribute as much given the talent on the team. I think those choices fit. You could likely trade Scheyer for either Nelson or Ewing in the main team, but I believe that they fit given the criteria set in the first post of this thread.

Also, I picked guys I liked the most. Reasonable minds may disagree.

 

[Dattier]

I believe Dat's criteria as walk ons was guys you would not necessarily consider top 50 all time for Duke and that might contribute as much given the talent on the team. I think those choices fit. You could likely trade Scheyer for either Nelson or Ewing in the main team, but I believe that they fit given the criteria set in the first post of this thread.

Also, I picked guys I liked the most. Reasonable minds may disagree.

I wouldn't consider either of them for that role -- Scheyer is one of my top picks for the main roster -- but the criteria is kind of murky and it's just for fun anyway.

I guess one thing I'd avoid for the sake of whatever integrity there is to this is sneaking a valuable back-up into those slots. Like, if you're saving a spot in the 13 that would have gone to a PG b/c you know Scheyer or Quinn is serviceable, it's skirting the challenge of limiting yourself just to 13. But it's just for fun anyway, like I said.

 

[dbav]

I wouldn't consider either of them for that role -- Scheyer is one of my top picks for the main roster -- but the criteria is kind of murky and it's just for fun anyway.

I guess one thing I'd avoid for the sake of whatever integrity there is to this is sneaking a valuable back-up into those slots. Like, if you're saving a spot in the 13 that would have gone to a PG b/c you know Scheyer or Quinn is serviceable, it's skirting the challenge of limiting yourself just to 13. But it's just for fun anyway, like I said.

Dammit, I should just head over to THR because apparently I cheated.

Given that, I would substitute Scheyer or Langdon for Nelson and make him a walk on (I assume most would not put him in the top 50)?

 

[Dattier]

lol
I wouldn't choose anyone who ever won an award, whether Honorable Mention All-Conference or ACC DPoY, or who ever even got a tryout in the NBA. You do you, though.

 

[Voldukie]

PG - Hurley, Irving,
SG - Redick, T. Hill, Cook
SF - G. Hill, Battier, Carrawell
PF - Laettner, T. Lang, Brand
C - , Okafor, Boozer

 

[DiehardDukeFan4Life]

Starting 5
----------------
C Laettner
B Hurley
G Hill
S Battier
Q Cook

Bench
----------------
JJ Redick
J Scheyer
K Singler
N Smith
M Plumlee
E Brand
T Jones
J Okafor
K Irving
J Winslow

 

[skysdad]

Ok I'll give a shot using players only who used up their eligibility..

Starters
1. Gminski
2. Dawkins
3. Laettner
4. Hill
5. Hurley.

Bench
1. Banks
2. Singler
3. Amaker
4. Denton
5. Spanarkel
6. Langdon
7. Alarie
8. Bricky.

OFC

I'm getting senile guys. I was just scanning the post and saw one ans thought to myself this one is just like mine. Then I realized it was mine. OFC

 

[topps coach]

Did not pick thirteen but Bob Verga is my starting shooting guard

 

[skysdad]

Did not pick thirteen but Bob Verga is my starting shooting guard

Yeah I agree along with Scheyer, Lang, Brian Davis, Mike Lewis, Nolan Smith, Lance Thomas, Mason Plumlee, Miles Plumlee, Danny Ferry, Thomas Hill, Sheldon Williams, JJ Redick, Shane Battier, Jack Marin, Steve Vacendek, Cherokee Parks, Art Heyman, Dick Groat, Jeff Mullins, Kenny Dennard, Vince Taylor and Bob Fleisher (you made need to look him up with his stats). That's 35 guys who used up their eligibility and probably a few more that I missed that could make my 13 man roster. So for me it's impossible even though I did name a 13 man roster. OFC

 

[topps coach]

Fleisher was a bright light thru some dark years

 

[topps coach]

Randy Denton had insane numbers as well but no one remembers him but us old farts.You youngens need to know that while K is great.Duke existed before him and contrary to all the haters we will be great after he leaves

 

[timo0402]

Anyone who doesn't start off with the big three of Hurley Hill and Laet are crazy!

So those 3, JJ at the 2 and Jabari at the 4. Then on the "bench"
-Shane
-Elton
-Tyus
-Jah
-Dunleavy
-Kyrie
-Kyle
-Jon

 

[CRAZIE4LIFE]

No one picked Tyler Zeller?

 

[skysdad]

Chris Carawell, Marshall Plumlee, Amile Jefferson, Quinn Cook, Zoubeck, Greg Newton, Wojo, Chris Collins, Capel and Abdelnaby. I'm gonna get to 50. OFC

 

[GTHC_ GTH!]

Hmmm ok.

Starters: PG Hurley, SG Dawkins, SF Grant, PF Brand and C Laettner.

I believe that all three retired jerseys from a back to back title team have to be in it.

Reserves: JJ (last retired number and just to piss off our opponents as a bench player scores 30 and then talks shit), Singler, Amaker, Okafor, Deng, Alarie, Scheyer, and Boozer.

Walk ons: Marshall Plumlee and billy King

 

[dukehokie]

A lot of guys at Duke accomplished a lot of things. I'll put together a talent team. I'd win some games with this team.

Hill
Laettner
Jason Williams
Shane Battier
Johnny Dawkins
Jim Spanarkel
Elton Brand
Jahlil Okafor
Gene Banks
Jabari Parker
Luol Deng
Bob Verga
Mike Dunleavy

Walk-ons - Rodney Hood, Marty Clark

Tournament success is probably a part of why Jabari isn't on anyone's list yet, but he had a pretty damn incredible freshman year. Put him with the squad before him or after him and he's probably considered a top 15 Duke player all time.

 

[timo0402]

A lot of guys at Duke accomplished a lot of things. I'll put together a talent team. I'd win some games with this team.

Hill
Laettner
Jason Williams
Shane Battier
Johnny Dawkins
Jim Spanarkel
Elton Brand
Jahlil Okafor
Gene Banks
Jabari Parker
Luol Deng
Bob Verga
Mike Dunleavy

Walk-ons - Rodney Hood, Marty Clark

Tournament success is probably a part of why Jabari isn't on anyone's list yet, but he had a pretty damn incredible freshman year. Put him with the squad before him or after him and he's probably considered a top 15 Duke player all time.

I actually had him starting on my roster a few posts ahead of you. You're absolutely right about the tourney success clouding how filthy he was.

 

[Dattier]

Tournament success is probably a part of why Jabari isn't on anyone's list yet

Absolutely. Same w/ Austin Rivers, Demarcus Nelson, and probably others. (I know Jabari and Demarcus have been mentioned, technically, but not much.)

Despite getting some All-ACC Defensive votes, Jabari wasn't a very reliable defender on a team that didn't play great defense, so I, for one, won't remember him as a well-rounded, gritty, complete player. I won't pretend that's entirely objective or even fair.

 

[Dattier]

Anyone who doesn't start off with the big three of Hurley Hill and Laet are crazy!

I believe that all three retired jerseys from a back to back title team have to be in it.

Tough call between Bobby and JWill, I think. I considered keeping both and skipping both JJ and JD as true 2s from the retired list. JWill could play the 2, and we have some other strong candidates to choose from there, like Trajan, Jon, Nolan, Spanarkel.

No question in my mind Bobby is the best ever pure point guard at Duke (I can't evaluate Groat, I'm afraid). Jason is in the running for greatest athlete at Duke, who happened to play primarily the point.

 

[dukehokie]

I actually had him starting on my roster a few posts ahead of you. You're absolutely right about the tourney success clouding how filthy he was.

Sorry about that. I totally missed yours. He was such a devastating player. If only he was at Duke a year later or earlier.

Absolutely. Same w/ Austin Rivers, Demarcus Nelson, and probably others. (I know Jabari and Demarcus have been mentioned, technically, but not much.)

Despite getting some All-ACC Defensive votes, Jabari wasn't a very reliable defender on a team that didn't play great defense, so I, for one, won't remember him as a well-rounded, gritty, complete player. I won't pretend that's entirely objective or even fair.

Definitely true about his D. I do wonder if any of that was attributed to the rule change that happened that year. We see how it has affected man to man defense. On top of that, his job at Duke wasn't necessarily to be the defensive stopper. Either way it was and is a part of his game that is lacking.

I like your mention of DeMarcus. I think he fell victim to incoming hype. The kid broke California's state scoring record and looked like a guy who was going to come in and just murder teams (he repeatedly scored on and over Dwight Howard at the McDonald's game). His leg fracture took a lot out of his athleticism. I loved DeMarcus Nelson at Duke. Again, a guy who was on some under-achieving (for lack of a better term) and over-achieving teams.

 

[dukehokie]

Absolutely. Same w/ Austin Rivers, Demarcus Nelson, and probably others. (I know Jabari and Demarcus have been mentioned, technically, but not much.)

Despite getting some All-ACC Defensive votes, Jabari wasn't a very reliable defender on a team that didn't play great defense, so I, for one, won't remember him as a well-rounded, gritty, complete player. I won't pretend that's entirely objective or even fair.

I also meant to comment on Austin. Had he stayed his sophomore year, I believe he could have helped Duke to a Final Four. He just wasn't ready to lead a team as a freshman. He never seemed to be a leader type, which he didn't have to be. He's just one of those guys who will be remembered two ways, as the UNC killer and as a team killer. The latter may not be fair, but there are arguments to support it.

He took the team on his back on multiple instances during wins and losses. So I ask, was it his inability to lead, or his teammates' inability to follow? Or a combination of both?

 

[Dattier]

Did not pick thirteen but Bob Verga is my starting shooting guard

Randy Denton had insane numbers as well but no one remembers him but us old farts.You youngens need to know that while K is great.Duke existed before him and contrary to all the haters we will be great after he leaves

I know of all the old greats, but I would hope we youngens get a little bit of a break for not having been born soon enough to actually experience them. At 43, I'm plenty old enough to smirk at line-ups that include no one from more than 10 years ago, but for the humble awareness I can't say much about anyone prior to JD's class, I'll try to keep that in check.

Was Verga a shooting guard? I know he scored a lot, but I thought he was a PG. Until recently I thought Mullins was more of a post player, owing largely to his being the biggest guy on the court when he played for the Farmington Woods Elementary parents vs. Briarcliff Elementary parents in an early '80s PTA challenge in Cary, NC. (I went to Briarcliff at the time.) Was Mullins more of a SG or SF? Like, I'd call Gerald Henderson a 3/2 and Matt Jones a 2/3; Kyle Singler a 3/4 and Jabari Parker a 4/3. What were Mullins and Verga?

How about the truest positions for these guys:
Marin (SF?)
Spanarkel (2/3?)
Tate Armstrong (no idea)
Heyman (undersized, Barkleyesque PF?)

And what was the deal w/ Denton? His rebounding #s are insane. Is that skewed somehow or what? Like, was it a deadball era where shooting %s plummeted into the low 30s? Even most young Duke fans have heard of Groat and Heyman, but relative to his stats, Denton's anonymity seems almost conspiratorial. Did he buy the fireK.com URL back in '82 or something?