What if..

[pisgah101]

This is a two part question but both come from the same problem-

We don’t get better and miss the tourney, this would indicate the players and coaches made little to no adjustments and sucked it up..

1. Do these “superstars” return for a second year and if so what do we do with next years “superstars”

2. Is Jon’s seat warmed at all? Hubert pre duke win last year was getting toasty with fans, would Jon be the same way? His recruiting is excellent but it wouldn’t take long for the product to be bad enough that nobody wants to come

 

[christophero]

Jon deserves at least 2 years. We can still turn it around this year. He probably gets a C so far but we're not even halfway through the year. Davis inherited a much more veteran team but did get them to the FF. It's not Jon's fault everyone bolted. As for number one, as I said in another thread I'd gladly take returning experienced guys even if it means some decommits and lumps this year. I've never been a "shiny new toy" guy. Last night looked like boys against men; and NC State isn't even that good. And the Wake game was similar so we can't just write it off.

 

[pisgah101]

Jon deserves at least 2 years. We can still turn it around this year. He probably gets a C so far but we're not even halfway through the year. Davis inherited a much more veteran team but did get them to the FF. It's not Jon's fault everyone bolted. As for number one, as I said in another thread I'd gladly take returning experienced guys even if it means some decommits and lumps this year. I've never been a "shiny new toy" guy. Last night looked like boys against men; and NC State isn't even that good. And the Wake game was similar so we can't just write it off.

I think he gets 3 years really but a season like this will increase pressure I would think. And I agree I’d take most of the back.. maybe let lively go on ha

 

[christophero]

Lively would be a monster next year. I'd gladly take him back. Proctor as well. Mitchell and Flip and Blakes and Young, comon back. Roach...I'd like back but he's been very frustrating to watch at times. But maybe he figures it out senior year like Cook did. But we never get everyone back at Duke, at least not the last decade, so some guys back is my hope. One of Proctor/Roach, one or two of Flip/Lively/Mitchell.

 

[springsportster]

One problem would be if recruits start to bail, increasing the pressure for years two and three. It could snowball... K still hold tremendous sway at Duke and given his first few years were rough, I suspect he will make sure Coach S gets at least three years.

 

[sheyduke]

Scheyer is getting no less then five years before a hot seat .
This is crazy. How can anyone I mean any one compare Scheyers first year to Davis’s. Not only did he return all upperclassman and got a key transfer . He still helped coach the players since they were freshman so all parties had coached and played together. Scheyer started with Roach and Blakes only one received any meaningful playing time under K and freshman he recruited . It was always going to be a challenge. Not to mention not one player has lived up to any rating especially not Lively he was the perceived number one recruit and projected to be ACC rookie of the year and that simply ain’t happening.
Need to pump your breaks on Scheyer snd focus on players. I’ll continue to say this ,” you can lead a horse to water but doesn’t mean it will drink!” You can coach to your hearts content but you can’t play the game for them .
Is a wake up call needed? Hell yes starting with some of the starters coming off the bench .
As far as next year. Would love to see atleast Flip and Mitchell return with the players coming in and Reeves snd Schutt with Blakes . Will it happen , probably not but that’s the luck of the draw in college these days .

 

[christophero]

5 years? This is Duke, man. This isn't Boston College. The reality is he gets a year pass. If he doesn't make the tournament next year will heat up. It's a high profile, high paying job. You can't have it both ways. I think he gets 2 or 3 years.

 

[pisgah101]

Scheyer is getting no less then five years before a hot seat .
This is crazy. How can anyone I mean any one compare Scheyers first year to Davis’s. Not only did he return all upperclassman and got a key transfer . He still helped coach the players since they were freshman so all parties had coached and played together. Scheyer started with Roach and Blakes only one received any meaningful playing time under K and freshman he recruited . It was always going to be a challenge. Not to mention not one player has lived up to any rating especially not Lively he was the perceived number one recruit and projected to be ACC rookie of the year and that simply ain’t happening.
Need to pump your breaks on Scheyer snd focus on players. I’ll continue to say this ,” you can lead a horse to water but doesn’t mean it will drink!” You can coach to your hearts content but you can’t play the game for them .
Is a wake up call needed? Hell yes starting with some of the starters coming off the bench .
As far as next year. Would love to see atleast Flip and Mitchell return with the players coming in and Reeves snd Schutt with Blakes . Will it happen , probably not but that’s the luck of the draw in college these days .

5 seems extreme.. and the reason you compare the 2 is because of what Duke does vs Carolina.. Carolina always brings guys back and we always rely on the one and done.. so we are seeing the success with the (typical) team the programs have

 

[christophero]

You gotta hang onto guys. You can't keep everyone, but you can't just start over every year. We need to bring some guys back next year. If everyone just sees us as a pit stop to the NBA we will become like Kentucky.

 

[acc hoops]

The five commits for next year are not coming to sit on the bench. I think 4 of them will start with TJ , Blakes, Schutt and Reaves being the subs. Ryan is 5th starter. I give Proctor a 50 % chance of returning and Mitchell a 25% chance.

 

[Mac9192]

This is a two part question but both come from the same problem-

We don’t get better and miss the tourney, this would indicate the players and coaches made little to no adjustments and sucked it up..

1. Do these “superstars” return for a second year and if so what do we do with next years “superstars”

2. Is Jon’s seat warmed at all? Hubert pre duke win last year was getting toasty with fans, would Jon be the same way? His recruiting is excellent but it wouldn’t take long for the product to be bad enough that nobody wants to come

I'm not confident any of them return. Would love to be wrong. Then again, I don't know what's coming in. What I do know is none are ready to go. But it's Duke, and seems to be expected that players leave.

I think Jon's seat is warm. Doesn't mean I think he would get canned after 2 or so seasons if something isn't working. I may catch some flack for saying this, but I'm glad K's gone. I think it was past time for a change, and Jon was the best choice to replace him.

It's to be determined if Jon has what it takes to be a good coach. I hope he is, but one thing I know to be true, that being a good player (he was) doesn't mean you'll be a good coach.

 

[Liftee]

Scheyer is getting no less then five years before a hot seat .
This is crazy. How can anyone I mean any one compare Scheyers first year to Davis’s. Not only did he return all upperclassman and got a key transfer . He still helped coach the players since they were freshman so all parties had coached and played together. Scheyer started with Roach and Blakes only one received any meaningful playing time under K and freshman he recruited . It was always going to be a challenge. Not to mention not one player has lived up to any rating especially not Lively he was the perceived number one recruit and projected to be ACC rookie of the year and that simply ain’t happening.
Need to pump your breaks on Scheyer snd focus on players. I’ll continue to say this ,” you can lead a horse to water but doesn’t mean it will drink!” You can coach to your hearts content but you can’t play the game for them .
Is a wake up call needed? Hell yes starting with some of the starters coming off the bench .
As far as next year. Would love to see atleast Flip and Mitchell return with the players coming in and Reeves snd Schutt with Blakes . Will it happen , probably not but that’s the luck of the draw in college these days .

This 100 times. We are not Kentucky. Nina King will not bail on a new coach who has all the makings of a great coach.

I would be shocked if Scheyer doesn't turn this team around somewhat at least this year. There is no one else out there who would be interested in the job who would be better. Capel? Check out his record in the past 5 years. Amaker? Not exactly dominating the Ivy League. Bobby? too much of a hothead.

The new normal may be something less than reaching the final four every other year, especially with One and Done and easy transferring.

 

[pisgah101]

I'm not confident any of them return. Would love to be wrong. Then again, I don't know what's coming in. What I do know is none are ready to go. But it's Duke, and seems to be expected that players leave.

I think Jon's seat is warm. Doesn't mean I think he would get canned after 2 or so seasons if something isn't working. I may catch some flack for saying this, but I'm glad K's gone. I think it was past time for a change, and Jon was the best choice to replace him.

It's to be determined if Jon has what it takes to be a good coach. I hope he is, but one thing I know to be true, that being a good player (he was) doesn't mean you'll be a good coach.

Agree 100%

 

[pisgah101]

This 100 times. We are not Kentucky. Nina King will not bail on a new coach who has all the makings of a great coach.

I would be shocked if Scheyer doesn't turn this team around somewhat at least this year. There is no one else out there who would be interested in the job who would be better. Capel? Check out his record in the past 5 years. Amaker? Not exactly dominating the Ivy League. Bobby? too much of a hothead.

The new normal may be something less than reaching the final four every other year, especially with One and Done and easy transferring.

I want jon here for at least 3 but to say no better current coach would want the job is hog wash. Open it up to outside duke and I guarantee you have a top coach come in as of right now that is.

 

[christophero]

I think Jon will figure it out. But I'd like to see more fight from this team. It's easy to look good sitting next to Coach K. How many times did we see Dick Vitale go on and on about what a great coach Dawkins would be?

 

[Dad2ze]

Any coach regardless of a class coming in or returning players deserves 4 years and 5 at most to turn a team around. We lose 1 game by 20 and people are freaking out. It is NC State at PNC. Nc State always shoots 65% from the field and 100% from the 3 when they play Duke. It happens every year at PNC. Let’s table this and discuss come March.

That being said…Jon may wanna bring in guys who are one and done and also who stay 3 years. Give it time before we start protesting outside Cameron lol.

 

[denverexpat]

The GOAT went 17-11, 10-17, 11-17 his first 3 seasons...so i think we can give JS some time. However, in todays world we've lost patience as fans and AD's so instant success of some sort is needed to keep your job these days. Also, if we keep getting talent that underachieves then its indicative of the coaching at some point....time will tell

 

[Liftee]

Can we remember this game when we blow out some team by 20 at home and think we're going to the Final Four? We're never as bad as our worst game or as good as our best game.

 

[christophero]

Problem is we have had several of these games. And we haven't even reached the hard part of the ACC schedule.

 

[K-oach Q]

I’m critical of Scheyer however I also coach for a living and think he should get 3-4 years minimum….and he will.

You don’t know anything until he has time to bring in years of his guys and his system .

I think he’s pretty bad right now but I also think he can grow and do better….I just don’t think Duke was a program that should hire someone that needs growth at this juncture in the program.

It’s way different situation than when K took over. We are the number one brand in college hoops.

 

[Player2020]

Should have gave job to amaker or capel. John didn't have any head coaching experience

 

[sheyduke]

5 years? This is Duke, man. This isn't Boston College. The reality is he gets a year pass. If he doesn't make the tournament next year will heat up. It's a high profile, high paying job. You can't have it both ways. I think he gets 2 or 3 years.

So because it’s Duke you don’t lock in a coach ? No one said it’s Boston college but your putting a guy on the hot seat after 15 games or a year? Hey serious and y’all thought Duke could lure Stevens ? Lol at stating if he don’t make the tourney next year and it’s not even half way through conference play . K couldn’t even retain players now your saying Jon is going to have to? Duke has four losses on the season and If you judge Duke off of what Carolina does then shit we might as well hang up the season now . They were the unanimous number one team , now out the top 25 with five loses with all upper class men starting .
Fans have him on the hot seat and I’m sorry this is another reason why college ball is ruined . People talk about one and done’s and retaining player now firing a coach after two years this might as well be pro ball.
Last night wasn’t a resemblance of Duke basket ball but come on if you can’t give an alumni time , one who won at the highest level of Duke basketball then I feel for Scheyer because loosing fan support 15 games in is a damn shame for any sport any team .

 

[sheyduke]

Should have gave job to amaker or capel. John didn't have any head coaching experience

And what have they accomplished to warrant coaching Duke ? Nothing that stands out over Scheyer .

 

[christophero]

No one is saying Jon should be fired. A question was asked, and i said if Duke doesn't make the tournament the pressure will be on to make it next year. I think if we make it this year Jon is fine. But 2 years straight missing the tournament will make the seat red hot. It probably won't happen, but 2 of our last 3 games have been bad losses. To average teams. As is now we will probably get in but with a high seed. We haven't even gotten to the Virginias, the UNCs, the Pitts and Miamis.

 

[sheyduke]

But who besides fans ever said Duke is always a high seed? That was under K . No said it this year except fans . I had Duke simply making the tourney. There was always going to be way to many unknowns . I don’t worry about seating anyway until the last couple of games before the ACC tourney . Worrying about it 15 games in is crazy .

 

[christophero]

We're almost halfway through the season. This isn't us stressing out over a scrimmage. At what point should we worry? We obviously learned nothing from Wake getting down 20-2 last night. I'm not really worried; just disappointed. We seem to be regressing as a team. But these things can change in a hurry; and they need to.

 

[pisgah101]

No one is calling for jons head lol

 

[KDSTONE]

5 years? This is Duke, man. This isn't Boston College. The reality is he gets a year pass. If he doesn't make the tournament next year will heat up. It's a high profile, high paying job. You can't have it both ways. I think he gets 2 or 3 years.

Three years prob. If he doesn’t make this or next years tourney two years is conceivable. It’s not like he inherited a dumpster fire. The # 1 rec class plus Roach and two transfers. So of the fresh only Whitehead looks legit or at least could get there. Lively and Proctor vastly overrated. Mitchell jury still out. Even so we’re acting like it’s not part of a coach’s job to evaluate high school talent instead of just blindly following the recruiting rankings like an internet fan boy Still time to adjust and figure it out to get a half decent seed but offensively they’re lost and defensively just awful

 

[KDSTONE]

We're almost halfway through the season. This isn't us stressing out over a scrimmage. At what point should we worry? We obviously learned nothing from Wake getting down 20-2 last night. I'm not really worried; just disappointed. We seem to be regressing as a team. But these things can change in a hurry; and they need to.

Correct. If we’re going to blame our struggles on youth and inexperience shouldn’t we be getting better as the season goes on, not worse?

 

[christophero]

Jon did get a lot of credit for this class, so it makes sense that he should get some blame if they are not producing. With just Roach back and 2 mid level transfers we needed these guys to be great. Still time, but thus far the class has been disappointing. People were saying we'd have the best frontline in the country over the summer. Whitehead's aunt is right. Excuse time is over.

 

[KDSTONE]

And what have they accomplished to warrant coaching Duke ? Nothing that stands out over Scheyer .

Given their track record, their floor may have been higher but their ceiling was lower. We’ve seen them enough to know they’re adequate but not Hall of Famers. With Sheyer he was handpicked by K so we figured the Goat saw something special there and so this year I’ll try to be patient but if we see the same bs next year the seat will start to warm

 

[sheyduke]

Given their track record, their floor may have been higher but their ceiling was lower. We’ve seen them enough to know they’re adequate but not Hall of Famers. With Sheyer he was handpicked by K so we figured the Goat saw something special there and so this year I’ll try to be patient but if we see the same bs next year the seat will start to warm

It wasn’t just K . C-Well was the first to bring it to K’s attention that his replacement was already here in Scheyer and the rest of the coaching staff agreed.
He wasn’t just hand picked by K. Scheyer had the support of the entire staff under K as well. If you watch his show you would see where it took having that support before Scheyer even put his name in for the job . He was already getting head coaching offers prior to K telling the staff it would be his last season .

 

[wcu1113]

I’m sure players that are clearly nowhere near ready for the NBA will declare for the draft.

College basketball is going downhill.

 

[hart2chesson]

It wasn’t just K . C-Well was the first to bring it to K’s attention that his replacement was already here in Scheyer and the rest of the coaching staff agreed.
He wasn’t just hand picked by K. Scheyer had the support of the entire staff under K as well. If you watch his show you would see where it took having that support before Scheyer even put his name in for the job . He was already getting head coaching offers prior to K telling the staff it would be his last season .

Duke AD Dr.Nina King and Duke president Dr. Vincent Price had previously settled on Tommy Amaker as their choice. K stepped in, and told Amaker why he wasn't the guy for the job.

Now that's the way it went down according to at least one published report and two well-placed Iron Dukes.I am in no way saying Tommy would be doing any better at this point.

I will add Dr.King has a pretty good track record. She selected our new women's softball coach (brand new program,one ACC title). Oh and she picked that Elko guy too leading our football team. (ACC Coach Of Year). OFC

 

[JimboSlice00]

I dont think I've seen anyone say Jon should be fired as he shouldn't be. I think three years is fair and I think we will be fine. The kids like to play for these younger coaches they can relate with, and Jon provides that. I think we will be just fine.

However, we are absolutely justified in being critical of what we have seen in these losses and its fair to say the product we saw on Wednesday Is unacceptable and it was maybe the most embarrassing game that I've watched as a fan. I'm in my mid 30's so late 90s to present is all I have to go by.

 

[sheyduke]

Duke AD Dr.Nina King and Duke president Dr. Vincent Price had previously settled on Tommy Amaker as their choice. K stepped in, and told Amaker why he wasn't the guy for the job.

Now that's the way it went down according to at least one published report and two well-placed Iron Dukes.I am in no way saying Tommy would be doing any better at this point.

I will add Dr.King has a pretty good track record. She selected our new women's softball coach (brand new program,one ACC title). Oh and she picked that Elko guy too leading our football team. (ACC Coach Of Year). OFC

In Jons show King says that was a false report . She states that they had wanted to speak with Amaker about possibly being the replacement but the decision was not set entirely on him their were other candidates and k did not make them hire Scheyer it wasn’t until speaking with him and talking with him twice that they decided he was the right coach for the job .

 

[9dukejames]

I believe that a couple of the freshmen come back and if that causes a bit of a log jam next year than so be it. My guess this week is Flip and Proctor and next week my guess might be different. Like was said upthread, I can live with a few lumps this year if it means more maturity next year. I am sure that Duke will make the tournament, but I am definitely dialing back hopes of a post season run. It was said that this was a weak class nationally and we can see it now with our own eyes. In a really good class, Duke's recruits would have been more like top 25 not top 10, IMO. Without a huge disparity in talent, one can really see the difference maturity makes. I don't place the blame on Scheyer.

 

[christophero]

We've become a team that relies on freshman talent every year. When we're good/lucky we get elite talent that elevates us. When we're not(2 years ago and this year so far) we struggle. 2 years ago we did have some returnees (mainly Hurt and Moore as sophs) but also had Roach, Steward, Johnson (first semester), Coleman and Brakefield and Williams in the rotation. Tape could have provided experience but barely saw the court. We are at a disadvantage with that much youth. Last year it worked out for us. Get the win at BC and regroup. If not the season may get away from us.

 

[Liftee]

I still see nothing with this team that can't be corrected. Get a little tougher (a common issue with freshmen). Keep moving on offense and not so much hero ball. Hit the boards and occasionally box out (I thought this team was doing it but a major regression the other night).

Mostly get a little (lot) tougher.

 

[christophero]

I agree; just surprised we didn't correct that against NC State. If I were Jon I'd go all Hoosiers and say no dribbling against BC ha. 5 passes before every shot.