Way-Too-Early Top 25 for 2018-19

[dukiejay]

Kansas comes in at #1. They're going to be really stacked if Malik Newman decides to return. Something tells me his NCAAT might push him to go, though.

We come in at #2.

UVA at seven and UNC at nine. Other ACC teams are Syracuse (15), Virginia Tech (16), Clemson (18) and Florida State (23).

Here's what they said about us....

"Before he left for the Pitt job, Jeff Capel helped Mike Krzyzewski sign the top incoming recruiting class in America. R.J. Barrett, Zion Williamson and Cam Reddish are ranked first, second and third, respectively, in the 2018 class. Add Tre Jones -- the younger, more athletic brother of Tyus Jones, who won most outstanding player honors during Duke's run to the 2015 national title -- and you have a terrible matchup for any opponent in America. Gary Trent Jr.returning for another year to play with former high school teammate Tre Jones or Trevon Duval coming back to build on this season might elevate the team to the top spot on this list. The Blue Devils will start the season as national title contenders either way. The 2014-15 team won it all with a young roster. But that group had senior leadership (Quinn Cook) that next season's team will lack."

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...ketball-way-too-early-top-25-rankings-2018-19

 

[carolinablue34]

It’s called the way too early list for a reason but I’d say this is pretty fair. A lot hinges on who stays and who goes.

 

[dukiejay]

It’s called the way too early list for a reason but I’d say this is pretty fair. A lot hinges on who stays and who goes.

Of the top 10 teams listed, there were only about two with unanswered questions.

The next three weeks will be interesting for a lot of teams.

 

[carolinablue34]

Of the top 10 teams listed, there were only about two with unanswered questions.

The next three weeks will be interesting for a lot of teams.

Yup. I’m surprised more people haven’t declared yet. Supposedly, calipari pitched to Knox to stay. Kentucky looks like a damn cluster f**k at the moment.

Plus there are a few 2018 recruits that remain undeclared.

Cam Johnson is looking at a possible test of the nba waters on our end.

 

[peterjurkinsquirtsroywilliams]

Yup. I’m surprised more people haven’t declared yet. Supposedly, calipari pitched to Knox to stay. Kentucky looks like a damn cluster f**k at the moment.

Plus there are a few 2018 recruits that remain undeclared.

Cam Johnson is looking at a possible test of the nba waters on our end.

Hahaha Roy will real ol Johnson back to UNC. The Mock draft doesn’t even list Nassir Little for the 2019 draft and he’s clearly a OAD.

 

[crazyduke3]

The lack of a Senior could hurt us greatly next year.

 

[Quavarius]

The lack of a Senior could hurt us greatly next year.

I'm sure we can get to an Elite 8 without any seniors

 

[lyonhawk]

The lack of a Senior could hurt us greatly next year.

It could, but I think it's possible we will have better leadership on next year's team than this one. While this class was extremely talented, none of them struck me as natural leaders. We had Grayson, but I don't think he had the leadership skills necessary to bring this group together like Quinn did.

From the couple games I've watched, RJ looks like the kind of kid who can come in and be a leader as a freshman, especially with no senior to defer to. Throw in Stones Jones II, and leadership may not be an issue.

 

[germantondevil]

If no declares for Nova they will dominate the NCAA again with a top 10 recruiting class coming in. But there again it all depends on who leaves and who stays. How many college kids have a chance to win 3 Nattys? Heck of a selling point if your Nova.

 

[germantondevil]

The lack of a Senior could hurt us greatly next year.

Unfortunately I feel you can change that could to a will. I know we won a Natty in 15 but there are so many strong teams anymore with Jr and Sr driven teams and in college hoops that’s critical to have those guys that’s been in the trenches and know what to expect. These freshmen coming in are great players but they don’t have a clue what it means to strap Duke across their chest yet. You have to play at such a high level every damn game when DUKE is on your uniform.

 

[df64]

Knox should go before a bunch of the other guys listed. This really highlights how hard it is to build a team. Outside of Roy, no coach has control over guys leaving or staying. Is Wright a better coach because Brunson came back last year? Is he a better coach if DeVincenzo comes back next year? Is K a worse coach because Jackson left even though we didn't get a great year from him? Is K a better coach if Trent comes back?

 

[christophero]

If Trent and Bolden come back I'd put us at 2, if just Bolden comes back I'd put us around 7. But we'd have a high ceiling. I don't want all the pressure that comes with being number one preseason.

 

[GillJET]

Yup. I’m surprised more people haven’t declared yet. Supposedly, calipari pitched to Knox to stay. Kentucky looks like a damn cluster f**k at the moment.

Plus there are a few 2018 recruits that remain undeclared.

Cam Johnson is looking at a possible test of the nba waters on our end.

My question would be, do Tar Heel fans even want Cam Johnson back?

 

[carolinablue34]

My question would be, do Tar Heel fans even want Cam Johnson back?

It seems most do.

 

[GAAP]

My question would be, do Tar Heel fans even want Cam Johnson back?

Good point. He went 34% on 3-pointers last season. Isn't that supposed to be his strength? Has never shot more than 45% overall.

 

[skysdad]

Yup. I’m surprised more people haven’t declared yet. Supposedly, calipari pitched to Knox to stay. Kentucky looks like a damn cluster f**k at the moment.

Plus there are a few 2018 recruits that remain undeclared.

Cam Johnson is looking at a possible test of the nba waters on our end.

cam will be back at unc. OFC

 

[GillJET]

Good point. He went 34% on 3-pointers last season. Isn't that supposed to be his strength? Has never shot more than 45% overall.

Yeah I’m kind of thinking the Heels might be better off without him.

 

[dachampishere2]

Unfortunately I feel you can change that could to a will. I know we won a Natty in 15 but there are so many strong teams anymore with Jr and Sr driven teams and in college hoops that’s critical to have those guys that’s been in the trenches and know what to expect. These freshmen coming in are great players but they don’t have a clue what it means to strap Duke across their chest yet. You have to play at such a high level every damn game when DUKE is on your uniform.

If Calipari took the 13-14 team to the finals with 6 freshmen and 2 sophomores in the rotation, I be damn if Coach K shouldn't be able to with 4 freshmen, 2 juniors, and 2 sophomores in the rotation. Our 4 freshmen are much better than their top 4 freshmen. So no excuses. We can all agree that Coach K is a better coach than Cal. It's time for him to start figuring it out. The trial runs should be over. When you have super talent you don't need to over coach because it makes them think more than play

 

[FearTheBeard]

If Calipari took the 13-14 team to the finals with 6 freshmen and 2 sophomores in the rotation, I be damn if Coach K shouldn't be able to with 4 freshmen, 2 juniors, and 2 sophomores in the rotation. Our 4 freshmen are much better than their top 4 freshmen. So no excuses. We can all agree that Coach K is a better coach than Cal. It's time for him to start figuring it out. The trial runs should be over. When you have super talent you don't need to over coach because it makes them think more than play

I think he showed that he figured it out in 2015. Duke won’t win it every year, but they’ll always be in the running under K.

 

[christophero]

I agree. We were close; we were contending. We didn't pull a Virginia.

 

[dachampishere2]

I think he showed that he figured it out in 2015. Duke won’t win it every year, but they’ll always be in the running under K.

No that team had some experience. This team won't have much experience at all. This team compares more to that Kentucky team as far as inexperienced, super-talent. There's no excuses. Next year we should get to at least the final 4. It's hard winning a title but with all that talent we need to get to the final 4 and if we don't it's a failure. Just like this season was a failure. We didn't accomplish one thing that we can hang our hats on. Coach has to step it up a little now with all this talent. We have the easily the most talented team 3 of the last 4 seasons and 1 Final Four to show for it. Too much talent to not be making final four appearances regularly. Like I said ol No Coaching Cal even had a run of like 3 final fours in 4 years

 

[The Optimist]

Of course every year's team is different but having seniors is neither a prerequisite or guarantee for the championship. Even a freshman can have and show leadership.

 

[christophero]

And we have 4 guys back who have NCAA tournament experience.

 

[Canadian Dukie]

The key will be utilizing the bench,we all know the freshmen will get the majority of the playing time,but its imperative that he allows the bench to develop,these guys have stuck around for 2-3 years and nows the time to get them in the rotation,if this happens I see good things coming next march

 

[jwill133]

Last I checked, we won the national championship in 2015 and our freshman scored EVERY point in the 2nd half.
Last I checked, we would have been in the final-four this year if our senior gave us his C+ game, he did not and we lost. Our freshman were fine.

Will our youth cost us a couple road games in January?? Probably.
Will our youth play any role in our success in the randomness of a single-elimination tournament. Nope. Were gonna win the title.

 

[TheDude1]

Last I checked, we won the national championship in 2015 and our freshman scored EVERY point in the 2nd half.
Last I checked, we would have been in the final-four this year if our senior gave us his C+ game, he did not and we lost. Our freshman were fine.

Will our youth cost us a couple road games in January?? Probably.
Will our youth play any role in our success in the randomness of a single-elimination tournament. Nope. Were gonna win the title.

Is that first stat true? Quinn and Amile didn’t score in the second half?

 

[jwill133]

Is that first stat true? Quinn and Amile didn’t score in the second half?

That is factually correct. Marshall and Matt Jones also did not score in the 2nd half.

 

[Mac9192]

Last I checked, we won the national championship in 2015 and our freshman scored EVERY point in the 2nd half.
Last I checked, we would have been in the final-four this year if our senior gave us his C+ game, he did not and we lost. Our freshman were fine.

Will our youth cost us a couple road games in January?? Probably.
Will our youth play any role in our success in the randomness of a single-elimination tournament. Nope. Were gonna win the title.

Kind of like we were going to beat Arizona in the title game huh? Let's not put all the blame on Allen. Offensively, he was bad, but Trent was 2-10 from 3. Also with our bigs, we were outrebounded by a bad rebounding team.
Let's not put the cart before the horse. March is a long way off, and we won't win it all unless our new freshmen superheros are every bit as good as their rankings and our bench develops. Plus, they need to be able to play a little defense, something Bagley and Trent were pretty bad at.

 

[TheDude1]

Hm, okay, I vaguely remember that stat. That’s pretty crazy

 

[Mac9192]

That is factually correct. Marshall and Matt Jones also did not score in the 2nd half.

You're also failing to remember the defense Jefferson, a junior, played on Kaminski, while Okafor, a freshman, was on the bench. Never mind, defense wasn't important, the win was all due to our freshmen. What was I thinking?

 

[jwill133]

You're also failing to remember the defense Jefferson, a junior, played on Kaminski, while Okafor, a freshman, was on the bench. Never mind, defense wasn't important, it was all due to our freshmen. What was I thinking?

In no way am I putting down the importance of what everyone gave us that game, especially Amile, I was simply stating facts. Should I not be stating facts?
That's ironic you keep harping on defense, because Grayson's perimeter defense was poor for 4 years. Both Gary and Trevon were better defenders than Grayson, and they had 3 months to learn the system.

 

[PatrickYates]

If no declares for Nova they will dominate the NCAA again with a top 10 recruiting class coming in. But there again it all depends on who leaves and who stays. How many college kids have a chance to win 3 Nattys? Heck of a selling point if your Nova.

Nova's top 10 class would fall apart if Brunson returns. Their recruiting class is ranked that high because of Quinerly, and if Brunson returns, the committed but not signed Quinerly will go elsewhere.

 

[Mac9192]

In no way am I putting down the importance of what everyone gave us that game, especially Amile, I was simply stating facts. Should I not be stating facts?
That's ironic you keep harping on defense, because Grayson's perimeter defense was poor for 4 years. Both Gary and Trevon were better defenders than Grayson, and they had 3 months to learn the system.

No, facts are great. Just need to not pick out the spots that you want to high light. Our freshmen that year were solid, and a huge reason Duke was successful, but here's the kicker, so were our veterans. That's how we won it all, we blended real well when it mattered.
Your second part is just plain wrong. Grayson was the only one this season that was solid defensively. He wasn't a stopper, but was our best defensive player this season. That's not saying much though.

 

[Bod1ne]

Kind of like we were going to beat Arizona in the title game huh? Let's not put all the blame on Allen. Offensively, he was bad, but Trent was 2-10 from 3. Also with our bigs, we were outrebounded by a bad rebounding team.
Let's not put the cart before the horse. March is a long way off, and we won't win it all unless our new freshmen superheros are every bit as good as their rankings and our bench develops. Plus, they need to be able to play a little defense, something Bagley and Trent were pretty bad at.

I was under the impression that mentioning how bad MBIII was at defense, boxing out, getting boxed out by players half his size, etc. was completely off limits on this board. I must have missed the memo that made it ok to point out the obvious.

 

[jwill133]

No, facts are great. Just need to not pick out the spots that you want to high light. Our freshmen that year were solid, and a huge reason Duke was successful, but here's the kicker, so were our veterans. That's how we won it all, we blended real well when it mattered.
Your second part is just plain wrong. Grayson was the only one this season that was solid defensively. He wasn't a stopper, but was our best defensive player this season. That's not saying much though.

Wendell was our best defensive player, by a mile. Duval second, then there's a large gap.
But I understand you're not gonna give in on any argument involving Grayson. When he had a bad shooting night, it's everyone else's fault, right?

I want as many talented studs as possible. Because I still think that gives us the best odds to win the title. My issue with Duke and K lately have been that we don't develop our multi-year guys.

Javin should have been better this year, he was a 4-star recruit, he would have been the top recruit on some teams that beat us this year. It is not our studs fault either for Javin not developing (that argument is so annoying). I really have no idea why a guy like Javin still can't shoot from 5 feet away. But playing Javin 20 mpg isn't gonna help him develop a comfortable jumpshot, it's just gonna make us worse. I think it's fair to blame K, fair to blame the rest of the staff. But don't place the blame on the guys who have earned their minutes, who yes usually are the young studs.

 

[PatrickYates]

No, facts are great. Just need to not pick out the spots that you want to high light. Our freshmen that year were solid, and a huge reason Duke was successful, but here's the kicker, so were our veterans. That's how we won it all, we blended real well when it mattered.
Your second part is just plain wrong. Grayson was the only one this season that was solid defensively. He wasn't a stopper, but was our best defensive player this season. That's not saying much though.

Not really. Grayson was better once we switched to zone, but he was a disaster in the M2M. We had to switch to a zone once it became obvious that opposing teams had figured out how to attack us in the half court. They'd work and move until Grayson and Bags were on the same side of the court, with the other three players moving as far away from them as possible. That was usually a recipe for easy points. Allen was better in the zone, but not great. I'd still put Duval and Carter ahead of him on D. GT and GA were about the same, IMO. Bags remained a giant failure point on our D, no matter what we ran or where he was.

 

[PatrickYates]

Wendell was our best defensive player, by a mile. Duval second, then there's a large gap.
But I understand you're not gonna give in on any argument involving Grayson. When he had a bad shooting night, it's everyone else's fault, right?

I want as many talented studs as possible. Because I still think that gives us the best odds to win the title. My issue with Duke and K lately have been that we don't develop our multi-year guys.

Javin should have been better this year, he was a 4-star recruit, he would have been the top recruit on some teams that beat us this year. It is not our studs fault either for Javin not developing (that argument is so annoying). I really have no idea why a guy like Javin still can't shoot from 5 foot away. But playing Javin 20 mpg isn't gonna help him develop a comfortable jumpshot, it's just gonna make us worse. I think it's fair to blame K, fair to blame the rest of the staff. But don't place the blame on the guys who have earned their minutes, who yes usually are the young studs.

This gets me. Allen shoots 2 for 9 from 3 in the elite 8, but it was still Duval's fault somehow. Allen killed us this year. He just killed us. We knew Duval was a bad shooter from 3. But he was within his expected range for the year, albeit on the low side. He was actually OK relative to expectations for the last 4-6 weeks of the season. Trent was sporadic, but he too came in within his expected range, albeit on the low side as well. But Allen was an anchor this year. Mediocre on D, and horrible from the perimeter. But it is never going to be his fault, I guess.

 

[Canadian Dukie]

I was under the impression that mentioning how bad MBIII was at defense, boxing out, getting boxed out by players half his size, etc. was completely off limits on this board. I must have missed the memo that made it ok to point out the obvious.

No need to point it out anymore,something everyone here was aware of all year,heen hashed over dozens of times already

 

[Mac9192]

Not really. Grayson was better once we switched to zone, but he was a disaster in the M2M. We had to switch to a zone once it became obvious that opposing teams had figured out how to attack us in the half court. They'd work and move until Grayson and Bags were on the same side of the court, with the other three players moving as far away from them as possible. That was usually a recipe for easy points. Allen was better in the zone, but not great. I'd still put Duval and Carter ahead of him on D. GT and GA were about the same, IMO. Bags remained a giant failure point on our D, no matter what we ran or where he was.

No, we switched to zone because our freshmen were so bad at communicating, and putting Allen at the top of the zone allowed him to talk more to the others. I never said Allen was a great defender, but he was our best because he knew where to be. The others never did. Carter was solid, but not good if he got taken away from the basket. Bagley and Trent were just bad, and Duval was so hyper, as the season went on, he was good in the zone with his long arms.

 

[Mac9192]

Wendell was our best defensive player, by a mile. Duval second, then there's a large gap.
But I understand you're not gonna give in on any argument involving Grayson. When he had a bad shooting night, it's everyone else's fault, right?

I want as many talented studs as possible. Because I still think that gives us the best odds to win the title. My issue with Duke and K lately have been that we don't develop our multi-year guys.

Javin should have been better this year, he was a 4-star recruit, he would have been the top recruit on some teams that beat us this year. It is not our studs fault either for Javin not developing (that argument is so annoying). I really have no idea why a guy like Javin still can't shoot from 5 feet away. But playing Javin 20 mpg isn't gonna help him develop a comfortable jumpshot, it's just gonna make us worse. I think it's fair to blame K, fair to blame the rest of the staff. But don't place the blame on the guys who have earned their minutes, who yes usually are the young studs.

Look, I am as disappointed in the way Allen was on offense as anyone. I never blamed our losses on the others. I did, and will defend ridiculous comments blaming "only" him for a loss. He and Trent were 4-19 from 3 against Kansas. I don't think Allen should have taken the last shot to win against them either. Bagley would have been a better option, but it's over now.
I agree about Javin, and have said the same things about him. He should basically live in the gym this summer. Heck, I'll even buy him a cot and put it in there if it will help his shooting come next season. He has so much athletic ability, as much as anyone that's played at Duke in quite a while.