Sulaimon at Center of Sexual Assault Allegations
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Rasheed Suilamon isn't Jameis Winston, Heisman Trophy Winner, future #1 pick in the NFL. He's a backup shooting guard, hopeful NBDL player. I don't think it even gets as big as Winston stealing crab legs. But people are going to look to crucify K here. You know they would love it.
Duke has chosen to keep Rasheed in school and by the accounts in the article attached these allegations date back to 2014. K was told about it in March of 2014 and Rasheed played for Duke through January 2015. All of you have told me that this was not why he was kicked off but instead because he had a bad attitude that was affecting the team. The Duke program didn't immediately disassociate themselves from Sheed. In the time it
took them to do so Winston had been cleared by the State's attorney. Duke started Sheed with knowledge of these accusations. At this point Sheed and Winston were both accused albeit Sheed by multiple women. Winston was cleared by the Tallahassee PD, the state's attorney, and a former state Supreme Court judge.
Also I want to live in the world you do if you think ESPN will take it easy on Duke because Duke guys work there. The FSU story had TMZ, NY Post, NY Times, etc. In today's society clicks sell my friend and nothing will get more clicks than bad press against ESPN's golden program and its Olympic coach.
took them to do so Winston had been cleared by the State's attorney. Duke started Sheed with knowledge of these accusations. At this point Sheed and Winston were both accused albeit Sheed by multiple women. Winston was cleared by the Tallahassee PD, the state's attorney, and a former state Supreme Court judge.
Also I want to live in the world you do if you think ESPN will take it easy on Duke because Duke guys work there. The FSU story had TMZ, NY Post, NY Times, etc. In today's society clicks sell my friend and nothing will get more clicks than bad press against ESPN's golden program and its Olympic coach.
A couple points. One, you're assuming that every single piece of this student newspaper story is true and that the timeline is perfectly accurate -- all from an "anonymous affiliate." Give me a break. The facts will eventually come out, but I highly doubt the student chronicle has stumbled on an "affiliate" that knows precisely when each and every person in the duke coaching staff / administration were made aware of different issues is somewhat preposterous.
Two, I think most fair-minded people see a huge difference between coaches learning of second-hand rumors about what a couple people have said in public about one of its players and a school not responding to an actual criminal complaint with a person who's willing to pursue her allegations. The notion that Duke would have been under an obligation to immediately "disassociate" itself from a player simply b/c some random person alleged something in a public forum is also preposterous. If Sheed denies it, and the girls do not pursue it, what exactly should you do?
Three, Duke has chosen to keep Sheed in school? What are you talking about? You can't dismiss a kid from a school under circumstances, as here, where nobody has even made a formal complaint against him. Coach K can dismiss Sheed from the program. He has no control over whether Sheed remains a student at the university.
As for the final point, compare how ESPN handled the Bernie Fine situation v. the PSU situation. When it suits their interest, ESPN responds differently.
This post was edited on 3/2 12:35 PM by aah555
prolly because it is a lose lose situation. If K immediately dismisses Sheed and it turns out it was nothing more than a rumor than K is ridiculed for not backing his players....If K doesn't dismiss Sheed and it turns out to be legitimate well then K is ridiculed for sitting on rape information....The only way IMO to handle the situation is to gather as much information as possible and even then wait to see how things progress before making a move....What triggered the eventual dismissal I don't know yet, but I am not going to criticize (at least at this point) a coach for slow playing rumors regardless of the sensitivity of said rumors when no complaint or charges are filed.
At any time either of these women could have took this to the police or to the staff, but for whatever reason they did not. Having said that, going off what we have, I think the staff did the right thing based on what we know. You cannot just throw a guy off without knowing what exactly happened and based solely off of rumors. You just can't. For instance, I had a friend, a guy who I have known for 16 years accused of sexual and physical assault by a former girlfriend who actually worked with me at one time. My friend also works there, she quit before the allegations hit. A couple months after they had broken up and she had quit, the cops came into the store and arrested him in front of everyone. It was really shocking to see. Turns out she had filed charges of mental/physical abuse against him, including sexual assault. In the beginning everyone thought he was guilty, well, except for me and a few other people out of of 120 or so co-workers. It was tough for him. But, we waited for the investigation to take place, facts to come in, and he continued working with us. Turns out, she suffers from bi-polar disorder and had made false claims in the past while living in another state, those claims were also against a former boyfriend and had been found to be untrue. Now, I am not saying these girls are lying or making it up. What I am saying is whether it was true or not when it came to the staff didn't hold water because of it being rumors. And because these girls didn't go forward with the claims to anyone at Duke or the police. I am sure they took those ten months to investigate and try and access what exactly took place. It is clear that they had no choice but to kick him off the team and the school decides if he will stay on academically. The media however will run with this and K will take a hard hit I am afraid no matter what. I hate it for him, the staff, their families, for Sheed (if he didn't do it), and most importantly I hate it for the two young women (if their claims are true) who clearly did not know what to do in this matter.
This post was edited on 3/2 12:34 PM by bleediteveryday30
This post was edited on 3/2 12:34 PM by bleediteveryday30
Example of why Duke may have not rushed to judgement
http://www.wral.com/duke-student-expelled-after-sex-assault-claim-sues-for-degree/13678099/
http://www.wral.com/duke-student-expelled-after-sex-assault-claim-sues-for-degree/13678099/
The timing of this does look a bit like CYA -- i.e., we're concerned about how this may look if it gets out, so lets disassociate ourselves from the problem.
But, with that said, I'm not sure how you investigate a sexual assault allegation that (i) a girl has never formally reported; (ii) the girl does not pursue; and (iii) presumably, the player unequivocally denies. While we expect responsive individuals to report incidents of wrongdoing, the Duke b-ball program is not the FBI charged with investigating unreported incidents.
This post was edited on 3/2 12:49 PM by aah555
But, with that said, I'm not sure how you investigate a sexual assault allegation that (i) a girl has never formally reported; (ii) the girl does not pursue; and (iii) presumably, the player unequivocally denies. While we expect responsive individuals to report incidents of wrongdoing, the Duke b-ball program is not the FBI charged with investigating unreported incidents.
This post was edited on 3/2 12:49 PM by aah555
I don't think he had another play to make. If Sheed told him he didn't do it, he can't suspend him solely on the word of one or two accusers unless they press charges or file a complaint. I don't blame the girls for not pursuing it. In fact, I don't blame anyone for anything yet, but I will say I am already leaning towards believing the accounts. Sheed has nothing redeeming going for him except a lack of physical evidence. That's not a whole heck of a lot to stand behind.
I am not saying Duke or K handled it incorrectly but If that is the case I then don't think you can insinuate that FSU did. Did Tallahassee PD botch some things, absolutely. What that didn't do was cause the girl to change her store 3-4 times or not respond to detectives for 6 months. When the initial inquiry into Winston occurred he was a 4th string red shirt freshman..far less famous than Sheed. He was never arrested or even CHARGED so if you are ok with Rasheed playing with these accusations then you can't say Jameis should have sat.
It has become a growing epidemic of sexual assaults (rape) happening at college campuses. Too be honest it has been happening for decades and not only on college campuses. I feel comfortable in saying that there are thousands of people walking around free who committed these crimes and many are prominent citizens of our society who hold very important positions, who go to church, raising families who because they were so drunk they committed a sexual assault and didn't think no meant no. UVA and Vanderbilt have really made the headlines. Getting drunk and not remembering you raped someone is no defense. The people who do this are animals at the time of it and have no regards or respect of the victim. It's happening way too much and I'm glad it's coming to light. I don't know what the answer is as to stop it but it's got to stop. It is a problem that is not limited to a certain group of people either. Now I can't say what I just did without adding this. Those who accuse falsely are just as bad as those who actually commit these hideous acts of violence and crime and the sad thing is most of the time these people remain nameless and their victims names are out there for all to see and their lives are marked even though they are innocent. The Duke LX situation lost jobs, caused transfers and cost a lot of money. Once again let me be clear that the people who commit these crimes should be punished fully and rehabilitated. I'll get off my soap box because I'm way beyond perfect. All I want is the truth about this and the right thing be done. OFC
Exactly. The crime of sexual assault is so serious (2nd only to murder) that complaints should be handled first and foremost by law enforcement. Its why I'm against the whole univesity hearing process. If someone is raping someone, law enforcement (not academics) should be conducting an investigation.
You're the one fixated on drawing comparisons to FSU. Nobody cares about Jameis Winston here. I have no idea whether FSU handled their situation properly, but I do know the situations were clearly different.
This post was edited on 3/2 12:54 PM by aah555
Here's an excerpt from the article that I thinks speaks toward that issue, Crazyduke.
"The majority of Duke's employees are required to report sexual assault. They may either notify a supervisor, campus police or submit the information through a website that is then sent to Student Conduct. There are select staff members who are not required to report a sexual assault, including staff members at Counseling and Psychological Services, the Women's Center, Student Health and University clergy.
If a victim of sexual assault decides to file a complaint with Student Conduct, a case is initiated. The accuser and accused then submit a statement, and Student Conduct hires an independent private investigator to interview witnesses and establish facts. After this process-which can take several months-Duke convenes a hearing and a three-person panel presides over the process. If the panel determines that there is a "preponderance of evidence" suggesting a sexual assault occurred, the recommended disciplinary action is that the student is expelled.
Sulaimon is still a Duke student and remains in good academic standing."
No charges were filed by these girls. If Sulaimon did this then he needs to be punished, but you can't deny him his presumption of innocence by someone that is not willing to make an official charge. Accountability...it's sometime we don't seem to require anymore. If this happened, and these girls wanted justice then they should have reported it when it happened...while there was still an opportunity to gather possible physical evidence. They let themselves down, and their fellow female students...if it's true. Yes, it may have caused some pain, and or embarrassment, but in a situation like this there is no recourse. By delaying it's become a he said she said situation with no real possibility of determining what happened. It's very sad for everyone involved.
OFC
This post was edited on 3/2 12:57 PM by OldasdirtDevil
Try again. If you actually read the article, they were allegedly made aware of a rumor through a second-hand source telling a team psychologist. There is no indication of a formal report to anyone at the school. Reading comprehension is advised.
This post was edited on 3/2 1:03 PM by aah555
Its amazing that in a case regaring something as serious as rape, a mere "preponderance of evidence" is all that's needed to exact permanent consequences on someone. And here I thought "beyond a reasonable doubt" constituted the greatest form of justice the world has ever seen. Silly me, I guess.
After reading this OP, I am having trouble digesting my lunch. After even just the last couple of years, and the events that have been taking place across the country, you have to ask how this could happen.
1. The girls not filing a complaint with the school, especially after a group session with multiple opinions and probable advice to them.
2. "K" with daughters of his own, and being fully aware of the problems at FSU, would not take this lightly. I believe he knew what he was doing.
The only recourse we as fans have, is to let this play out. We cannot judge what we are not sure of.
If there was an anonymous source saying that Rasheed should have been dismissed from the team and or school earlier, I have no doubt that a lot of thought was given to the matter (legally). I also have no doubt that Coach K gave this a lot of thought and probably held out as long as he could, before he knew he had no recourse.
The folks that said it in earlier posts are right, might as well get ready, the media is going to eat this alive. We all know, there are a lot of people out there wanting to bring Duke down!
Go Duke!!
JC-OFC
This news is terrible, no way around it. That said, wild speculation in the absence of tangible evidence isn't helping anybody, including the victims in my opinion.
One thing that we are not mentioning is that the thing that Sheed was dismissed for has not been clear other than what was first reported and it seemed to concur that it was attitude and not being able to control his emotions. He may have not been dismissed for the rape allegations since he hasn't been charged and still in school. Am I missing something ? Has the coaching staff or anyone else came out and said Sheed was released because of the allegations? Like I said I want the truth no matter what. Also we can't let what some are stating over at THR get to the best of us. There are several over there that are looking at this with a reasonable attitude. I need to stop going over there for sure but in this case I'm glad I did because of the THR posters that want to see the right hing done. This is a big deal. It's not about academic fraud, players accepting gifts but this about a capital crime, a felony and we all should take it serious. We should be careful ourselves in spreading rumors and false information. Let the right people take care of it. OFC
Here comes the media, see link below.
K was ripped when he didn't defend the lax program the day that story broke but now the media is saying he didn't move fast enough to rid Sheed despite no Title IV filing by the accusers nor criminal investigation.
K and the "Duke fanbase backlash" will be hung for this.
NY POST
K was ripped when he didn't defend the lax program the day that story broke but now the media is saying he didn't move fast enough to rid Sheed despite no Title IV filing by the accusers nor criminal investigation.
K and the "Duke fanbase backlash" will be hung for this.
NY POST
To be clear, I think you're obviously right that there will be some potshots taken at Duke / Coach K over the next few days. My point is only that I just don't see how this has legs like some of the scandals people have been taking (assuming that Duke, in reality, handled this appropriately).
This post was edited on 3/2 2:12 PM by aah555
Aaahh, I've seen many articles carrying info from the Duke Chronicle & Jameis Winston is referenced multiple times. That story ended last year with a third ruling removing Winston from facing charges yet is still mentioned today. Do you not recall how the media ran with Duke lax story? This will create attention for websites and broadcasts, the media doesn't care if what they are saying is right, it just has to produce eyeballs.
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