With Tre going down what do you feel would be best suited going forward. I think sliding Goldwire into the starting lineup makes the most sense, he can handle the ball, and plays good enough defense to "hopefully" keep us in tact for a while. I dont want to see Jack White starting along side Barrett, Williamson, and Reddish. Reddish seems to foul alot, and Barrett does good, getting assists, but I don't think we need to experiment with another forward trying to play PG... Hopefully the NEXT MAN UP, steps up and keeps us in good shape. ALEX O, JACK WHITE, JORDAN GOLDWIRE, now is the time to step up, and contribute big time...
Rotation going forward.
- Thread starter DBM0828
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If cam is ready Saturday you let him and RJ share pg duty’s. After the terrible play of Jack the last two games something’s going on there so they need to work that out so I’m going big and starting Javin and Bolden. MAYBE Alex but his passing last night was terrible so I would just go mammoth size on everybody
First things first, you have to look at minute distribution. You now have 29 minutes per game to redistribute. So that’s going to be 29 minutes between Jack, Cam, RJ, Zion, Ques, Javin, Alex and then Goldwire. Probably in that order. Before Jordan, it’s more likely that Alex sees an uptick in valuable time on the floor.
I mention all of those guys sharing that minute load because now the roles will change slightly for some, vastly for others.
IMO, RJ is the new point guard. He will dominate the ball coming down floor with Cam being second in command. Preseason, K even expressed a desire to possibly have Cam run some point, because he’s a “brilliant passer.” Zion, Ques, Jack, Javin and Alex should all retain their roles. Maybe Jordan gets a few more minutes to give RJ and Cam a break from the point position.
Defense is the biggest adjustment. Do we maintain the current style of play? Tre made plays outside of the defensive set up, because he has an uncanny ability to anticipate. You can’t “coach that up.” So does this team now focus on just playing field goal % D and work for rebounds (Duke is 1st in ACC play in rebounding), or does someone else step into that disruptor role up top? That’ll be interesting to see.
So then who starts? Saturday, I think we’ll see a starting five of Javin, Jack, Zion, Cam and RJ. The rest of the season without Tre, that may change.
I have my doubts about Jack starting and becoming more than a role player off the bench. Good lord he’s hard to watch on the defensive end when brought out from under the basket. I hope to God he proves me wrong but I’m just not sure he’s ready for a more significant role at this point but siiiigh there may not be much of a choice.
I can’t wait until Saturday. I want to see how the team comes out and responds to this significant adversity. Hopefully there’s a chip on their shoulders no pun intended
This is where I wonder if the adjustment becomes to play man to stop drives rather than to create turnovers.
I wonder if Duke gets out of the passing lanes and focuses more on help. Regardless of who starts, you’re going have guys guarding mismatches.
And I’d still rather have Jack start or get more time than Jordan (right now). Maybe knowing he has potential for a huge uptick can spark something in Goldwire, but he’s clearly not ready today.
I think you go with Bolden, White, Zion, Cam and RJ. Alex, Javin and Jordan coming off bench.
Jack hopefully finds his shot. He hasn’t had it for a few games now.
May be the time to sprinkle in some zone at times.
Jack hopefully finds his shot. He hasn’t had it for a few games now.
May be the time to sprinkle in some zone at times.
He's more ready than Jack and AOC defensively. Jack and Alex are such a liability when they are guarding the ball that I just don't think they can play extended minutes without giving up a shit ton of points like last night. Hell, they can't even stay on their feet half the time.
When they’re guarding 30 feet from the basket. But put them close to the line with help defense behind them and they look much better. They won’t be Tre, but they can be effective on the ball with help. Anyone can.
Time for Jordan to earn the trust of his coach and teammates,this can be huge for him going forward,not just this year,but for the next two as well.
Its time Bolden starts again over javin. He is literally playing the best basketball in a duke uniform. And to be honest he is just better in everything
He absolutely is. I wouldn’t be mad about that.
These are all good points. Glad the team doesn’t play until Saturday and I’m glad the GOAT is on the bench as well as Nolan and Sheyer from the 2010 team, who I believe specialized in the defense Dukehokie is referencing during that title run or something close to it.
Proud of the young man. Consistency is the key for him though.
Im not sure we win but i think we are going to bring alot of fight on Saturday
You saved me the typing. RJ is our PG. Goldwire gets spot minutes to back him up. AOC sees an uptick in minutes. Please be strong with the ball Alex! Defense is the question.
Don't forget we also had to play without Cam last night which further ate into our depth. We had too many people playing huge minutes who aren't used to it. By the end of the game and overtime, we were obviously just out of gas.
Going forward, I expect AOC to move into the starting lineup with Cam/RJ/Zion/Jav with Jack and Bolden getting most of the bench minutes. Expect to see RJ playing 38-40 minutes a game, Cam 35ish and Zion 30-32. AOC and Jack will split the bulk of Tre's minutes (which is really closer to 38 in close games) and I wouldn't be shocked to see 5-8 minutes of Jav/Bolden on the floor at the same time.
Going forward, I expect AOC to move into the starting lineup with Cam/RJ/Zion/Jav with Jack and Bolden getting most of the bench minutes. Expect to see RJ playing 38-40 minutes a game, Cam 35ish and Zion 30-32. AOC and Jack will split the bulk of Tre's minutes (which is really closer to 38 in close games) and I wouldn't be shocked to see 5-8 minutes of Jav/Bolden on the floor at the same time.
That makes sense to me . I just hope Jordan has the confidence to go in and do what he needs to do. He's in his second year in the system and should know what Coach K wants him to do. He is still surrounded by tremendous talent so it's not like he's expected to be a scorer. Just play the best D he can and get the ball to the people who can score. Jordan is not the only player that needs to step it up. Every player on this team is going to need to take up the slack. OFC
Here is the issue were gonna have. Play Alex for Tre, and our elite defense all of a sudden becomes an average ACC defense.
Jordan is a pretty good defender and can apply some pressure like Tre, the problem is he's 0-13 from 3 on the year, and were already bad enough at shooting 3's.
It becomes a numbers thing, Alex/Jordan are gonna have to play big minutes, because we can't have Javin/Marques ever on the floor together.
Jordan is a pretty good defender and can apply some pressure like Tre, the problem is he's 0-13 from 3 on the year, and were already bad enough at shooting 3's.
It becomes a numbers thing, Alex/Jordan are gonna have to play big minutes, because we can't have Javin/Marques ever on the floor together.
We’ve been getting killed the last two games with lobs and weakside rebounds for easy put backs. Javin gets completely lost in no man’s land. Ques isn’t great but is much better at both hedging and recovering and at least forcing a disruption. Ques is much closer to handling those situations correctly than Javin. Ques continues to make slow by steady steps in the right direction. I too would be starting him again.
How do you get lobs? By spreading the floor. Pack the interior those lobs disappear. Teams are just now starting to spread Duke out now and it’s working. Prior to and including the last two games, Duke is still 9th in the nation against 2 pt field goals. I think that trend can continue. The turnover differential is my biggest concern.
All of our recent teams have had trouble staying in front of athletic guards. Miami has killed us over the years with a similar philosophy, spreading us out. The difference this year is we have a disruptor at the top of our defense that gets offenses moving side to side rather than downhill. Once the opposition gets by the defender going downhill the big has to come up. From there it’s either a lob or a shot intended to simply get it up on the rim for the easy put back.
Tre is our best disruptor by far, but Cam is pretty good too. RJ isn’t awful but is a bit too straight up for my liking. Standing straight up makes us stiff and easier to get by. Jack is built like a rock and can stay in front of many, but not the elite guards like Syracuse had last night. Essentially we lost our two best defenders and replaced them with guys who simply couldn’t stay in front of their man. Cam will be back but I agree, we may need to change a lot of our defensive philosophy to compensate for losing Tre. Without that disruption at the top offenses are going to be very comfortable bringing the ball up against us and I’m not sure we have the defensive chops to prevent easy buckets. Packing it in sounds great, but I’m curious to see how it works for a young team that was excited to get out in transition.
The offense will be fine, it may look ugly with turnovers for the next week or so, but I think we can recover and will still be one of the best offenses in the country.
The defense though. Tell me a defense that will be fine once that defense loses the best on-ball defender in the country?
It sucks, for years we have waited for Duke to play defense like this, and we just lost the engine to that defense.
The defense though. Tell me a defense that will be fine once that defense loses the best on-ball defender in the country?
It sucks, for years we have waited for Duke to play defense like this, and we just lost the engine to that defense.
The only way I'm bothered is if this is another 2016 Amile situation. In the meantime, with the players filling in, I think we will have to play a little zone. It will give teams a different look at times, plus save some of the heavy minutes our stars will be playing. I thought we were gassed last night.
We can still win Saturday. No one thought we would beat Louisville in 15 after Miami pounded us at home the game before.
With this team here, and the fight they have, I refuse to think the season is lost.
We can still win Saturday. No one thought we would beat Louisville in 15 after Miami pounded us at home the game before.
With this team here, and the fight they have, I refuse to think the season is lost.
I think we go with Cam at point guard. He’s the better player at initiating. He came in as a point forward and his NBA future potential is based on his on ball skills as a playmaker. Moving him to point means RJ can stay in his off ball role and not be front-and-center for the defense to key in on. It would be much easier for him to attack being the secondary ball handler. Moving RJ to point would completely change our entire offensive philosophy. Moving Cam to point and Alex to SG can keep everything the same. Obviously Tre runs it better but we can keep the same principles. With RJ at point we would have to be an almost exclusive PNR team to create mismatches for him to penetrate. Having him be Tre up there won’t work.
I would start Cam, Alex, RJ, Zion and Marques. We have two shooters, two slashers, and a big man. Defensively we can dial it back a little and focus on crashing the boards and running when we can. Or go with the 1-2-2 press to slow teams down. We will still be good defensively but obviously not as good as before. Offensively we add a shooter to the mix. We won’t be as efficient but we definitely will have more driving lanes for Zion and RJ because you don’t want to leave Alex and Cam.
Man this sucks to lose Tre though. I hope he can get back and get close to healthy. We just need his poise and leadership more than anything. We will be fine though. He will be easy to plug back into the lineup because of the player he is. He doesn’t necessarily need the ball a lot to be effective. He plays defense and gets the ball to the right guy. It’s not the 2011 situation where we had two scoring guards who were best having the ball in their hands majority of the time.
I would start Cam, Alex, RJ, Zion and Marques. We have two shooters, two slashers, and a big man. Defensively we can dial it back a little and focus on crashing the boards and running when we can. Or go with the 1-2-2 press to slow teams down. We will still be good defensively but obviously not as good as before. Offensively we add a shooter to the mix. We won’t be as efficient but we definitely will have more driving lanes for Zion and RJ because you don’t want to leave Alex and Cam.
Man this sucks to lose Tre though. I hope he can get back and get close to healthy. We just need his poise and leadership more than anything. We will be fine though. He will be easy to plug back into the lineup because of the player he is. He doesn’t necessarily need the ball a lot to be effective. He plays defense and gets the ball to the right guy. It’s not the 2011 situation where we had two scoring guards who were best having the ball in their hands majority of the time.
Marques is playing really well right now. I think we should start RJ, Cam, Zion, Javin, and Marques. Slow down the tempo and perhaps pull back on playing the passing lanes so aggressively. We have excellent shot blocking still but without Tre pressuring the ball and staying in front of speedy PGs we run the risk of guys being out of position to get those blocked shots if we play the passing lanes as if our lineup is still normal.
I am a little bit concerned that our offense will devolve into too much one on one play without Tre running the show. And our transition offense, which is our best offense, will take a major hit since we won't be able to defend and get steals.
This is a gigantic loss any way you slice it. It changes the dynamic of the team in so many ways.
Have to start gold wire and hope his defense wins out over his inability to score. Barrett Will have enough on his plays without having to play point for long minutes. rotate RJ and Cam at point some when Jack or AOC come in.
Zion, RJ, Cam, Marques and Goldwire
Zion, RJ, Cam, Marques and Goldwire
I just don't think Jordan Goldwire is the answer. He's a great kid and I love him at Duke, but he's not a starter.
We'll see what K does, but right now I'd say Cam, RJ, Jack, Zion and either Marques/Javin. Part of me likes Javin starting and Marques, along with AOC, giving a bit more pep off the bench.
We'll see what K does, but right now I'd say Cam, RJ, Jack, Zion and either Marques/Javin. Part of me likes Javin starting and Marques, along with AOC, giving a bit more pep off the bench.
I figure Jack is sliding into the starting rotation, and RJ is running the show. Everyone better shoot an additional 500 3's a day in (or after) practice, 'cause after making 9 of 43 (and losing Tre's ball distribution) everyone is going to pack it in against us and dare us to beat them from the outside. We don't have to shoot great from 3, but we can't shoot 20% and win many games.
OFC
OFC
All of this leads, for me, to one important question: How did K wind up with only one ACC-level point guard. Not possible to have two Tre's, but we should at least have one good back-up.
Nor do I. We all saw his defense last night too. Not that it was easy for any of our guys, but he certainly wasn't having success staying in front either. Long-term it is what it is, but spot minutes this year is likely his max contribution.
In 2019, playing Javin and Marques together will never be the answer. Especially with Zion on the floor too, just can't have that many non-offensive threats on the floor.
Javin and Marques combined though make for a nice flexible center.
Javin and Marques combined though make for a nice flexible center.
Goldwire running the point more is not the answer. He's awful offensively. Can't let teams sag off him to put more pressure on Barrett, Zion, and Cam.
Barrett is going to run the point way more, perhaps as much as Tre did. We need to keep Goldwire limited to the same role as before Tre's injury, which is basically 5 minutes or less in competitive games.
O'Connell will see the biggest increase in minutes. Some more minutes for Bolden and Javin as well.
If we can get back Tre in 4 weeks or less, having O'Connell developed could help us substantially in March. This team would benefit immensely from one more reliable 3-point shooter.
Barrett is going to run the point way more, perhaps as much as Tre did. We need to keep Goldwire limited to the same role as before Tre's injury, which is basically 5 minutes or less in competitive games.
O'Connell will see the biggest increase in minutes. Some more minutes for Bolden and Javin as well.
If we can get back Tre in 4 weeks or less, having O'Connell developed could help us substantially in March. This team would benefit immensely from one more reliable 3-point shooter.
Yeah I look at Jav and Ques as a center with 10 fouls.
Jack is going to have to find that touch he exhibited in the summer. He is now being guarded and it has been a tough adjustment for him. The secret is out. But with more focus toward it and more game time to figure it out, I have no doubt he can do so.
Alex is next man up and after his performance last night, I’m excited. Did he have turnovers? Yes. Did he have trouble guarding the ball handler at times? Sure. But he gave Duke big stretches of energy play which is what you need off the bench. He hit shots, he made some very nice hustle plays on defense (don’t forget his one man stretch where he tormented Frank Howard on the inbounds) and he forced the defense to have to rotate to his side.
We lost our MVP, but that doesn’t mean another can’t step up. Having the wealth of riches we bragged about when we were crushing teams is going to pay off. Duke has good bench players, superior talent and great athleticism and length. K still has a bundle to work with. It’s just going to take a few weeks to get it right.
I think we’ll see Zion, RJ and Cam bring the ball up the court a lot while Tre is out but I think RJ and Cam will share the bulk of minutes at point guard with Goldwire getting some minutes at point guard. As far as Jack, I gave my thoughts in the game day thread on his play over the last few games.
Jack is more effective coming off the bench.Cam,RJ,Zion,Alex and Ques. for me,that gives us 2 good shooters,2 guys to attack the basket and Ques to clean up underneath
