Nolan allegedly mistreated by Durham police

[Dattier]

Well, this sounds pretty scary.

Nolan Smith was pulled over by DPD for a window tint violation and approached by officer(s) with gun(s) drawn, yelling at him. He tweeted about it.

(Throw "allegedly" in that first sentence about 4 times.)

 

[acc hoops]

There have been numerous shootings recently of policemen approaching vehicles at traffic stops.
With the windows tinted illegally the police could not see into vehicle. I believe they had every right to protect themselves considering the circumstances.
I think the bigger story is why would Nolan be driving a vehicle with illegal tinting of the windows.
He should know better .

 

[WI#1Dukie22]

"I think the bigger story is why would Nolan be driving a vehicle with illegal tinting of the windows.
He should know better ."

Essentially any car with tinted windows is technically illegal..... It's just not a law that is enforced unless an officer is suspicious of something else. In the Midwest anyways.

Not sure Noaln getting pulled over for illegal tint is even a story at all...... Cops drawing guns is what makes it a story. So I would have to disagree here

 

[DukeDenver]

All windows must transmit more than 35% light in NC, with reflective stuff minimal, and only on the sides. What about out of state vehicles?

Nolan's were 4%, meaning straight black pretty much. I get why a semi-celebrity would want this, but he should realize he opens himself up to this kind of thing. The report claims he also didn't stop right away. I'm just happy it all worked out in the end. He did the right thing by not getting too defensive in the moment. Cops are at risk too, you gotta give them the benefit of the doubt, even if they may be profiling you a little.

I'm sure there are thousands of illegal tint jobs in every city. It's one of those things that officers ignore unless they are in the mood to get suspicious. It comes with owning dark tint, live with it.

 

[spike05rk]

I know the media is trying to make this another racial profiling case but how did the officers know what color the people were inside with the tinted windows. Bottom line if you are not doing anything wrong or breaking the law the cops are not going to mess with you.

 

[DukeDenver]

Bottom line if you are not doing anything wrong or breaking the law the cops are not going to mess with you.

I vote to not feed into the media crap by discussing this stuff in a general sense. This is a basketball board, and there are no specifics given in this story to question motivations. We all know Nolan is a good guy.

 

[HonkeyT]

This is a touchy subject. I can understand both sides reaction though. Maybe if Nolan had immediately stopped the officers may have not felt a need to pull their guns but since he didn't they approached with more caution. I don't know, As we know Durham can be rough, especially around 12 AM.

 

[Dattier]

I know the media is trying to make this another racial profiling case but how did the officers know what color the people were inside with the tinted windows. Bottom line if you are not doing anything wrong or breaking the law the cops are not going to mess with you.

I think it's Nolan's local fame that has brought this to anyone's attention, not some attempt by the media to sensationalize it.

I think it's specious reasoning to claim the police never ever ever do anything to anyone who isn't doing anything wrong. John Crawford, the Ohio man shot and killed in an Ohio Walmart for walking around w/ an unloaded air rifle they sell at Walmart and which he picked up off the shelf? Tamir Rice, the 12 year old -- also in Ohio -- who was shot w/in seconds of police arrival b/c he had a toy gun? We can rationalize away why they were shot -- the legal system certainly has -- but I don't think there's any reasonable, fair way to say either of them was doing anything wrong.

Even when someone is doing something wrong, there are about 2 circumstances under which deadly force is warranted. Running away? Resisting arrest? Not among them. Those things are wrong, but they don't warrant deadly force.

Your stance is tantamount to the idea that if you have nothing to hide, you should have no objection to a warrantless search. There's a reason that's the 4th Amendment the framers of the Constitution saw fit to create.

 

[WI#1Dukie22]

Exactly Dat.... This could go into quite the debate and this isn't the place..... But be careful giving the officer a free pass these days..... I've known to many of them and heard to many stories!!

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

I understand why Nolan might be pissed in this situation. I had an officer pull a gun halfway out of his holster after I stepped out of my car...and I'm nowhere near a frightening presence. I wasn't speeding, wasn't doing anything out of the ordinary (and I'm white...if that makes any difference to the story). But for whatever reason the officer was on edge. He apologized, and nothing came of it. I didn't get any citations because there were no violations. I don't know what his reasoning was, but maybe a recent incident caused him to act in a more harsh way. Police officers have a responsibility to conduct themselves properly when dealing with the public, but they're human. That said, they must be held accountable for their actions if someone is harmed or killed by their bad judgment. There are bad cops, as well as good ones.

But back to Nolan. As Denver said 4% is tantamount to complete blockage of light...that would get me stopped every time I go out on the road in the small town I live. Also, he continued to drive for a couple of blocks (if the officers are correct) after being 'blue lighted'. I'm sorry, that is going to raise any officer's antenna....especially in the tense atmosphere that exists between law enforcement and the public at the moment.

So maybe an officer shouldn't have pulled his gun...but pulling a gun is entirely different than pulling a gun and firing a hail of bullets. The officer didn't go berserk and panic...but he was obviously concerned for his own safety (and he has to make a quick decision on it). Not every decision is going to be perfect, but the goal is not to make a rash stupid one. This one wasn't perfect (in hindsight), but it's doesn't fall to the level of a stupid one either.

So maybe Nolan shouldn't have windows that are not just 'tinted', but are 96% blocked (almost total darkness), and maybe he should stop a little quicker than continuing for several blocks after being 'pulled over'. If I'm an officer those 2 things would certainly makes me suspicious. Nolan (and all of us) have our rights, but if you put yourself in a situation where you may be considered suspicious (total dark vehicle, not stopping for awhile), then you've allowed someone else (in this case an officer) using his judgment as to balancing your rights with his right to maintain his safety. It's a delicate balance, and the right decision isn't always made.
In this case, thankfully, the only thing hurt were feelings...and that's a small price IMO for everyone walking (driving) away to continue living their lives.

OFC

 

[Dattier]

...It's a delicate balance, and the right decision isn't always made.
In this case, thankfully, the only thing hurt were feelings...and that's a small price IMO for everyone walking (driving) away to continue living their lives.

OFC

I think you are very gracious toward both sides in this, OadD, and we could use a lot more of that in the world.

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

I think you are very gracious toward both sides in this, OadD, and we could use a lot more of that in the world.

Thanks, Dat.

OFC

 

[CRAZIE4LIFE]

They may have been afraid it was PJ

 

[gottagonow]

I understand why Nolan might be pissed in this situation. I had an officer pull a gun halfway out of his holster after I stepped out of my car...and I'm nowhere near a frightening presence. I wasn't speeding, wasn't doing anything out of the ordinary (and I'm white...if that makes any difference to the story). But for whatever reason the officer was on edge. He apologized, and nothing came of it. I didn't get any citations because there were no violations. I don't know what his reasoning was, but maybe a recent incident caused him to act in a more harsh way. Police officers have a responsibility to conduct themselves properly when dealing with the public, but they're human. That said, they must be held accountable for their actions if someone is harmed or killed by their bad judgment. There are bad cops, as well as good ones.

But back to Nolan. As Denver said 4% is tantamount to complete blockage of light...that would get me stopped every time I go out on the road in the small town I live. Also, he continued to drive for a couple of blocks (if the officers are correct) after being 'blue lighted'. I'm sorry, that is going to raise any officer's antenna....especially in the tense atmosphere that exists between law enforcement and the public at the moment.

So maybe an officer shouldn't have pulled his gun...but pulling a gun is entirely different than pulling a gun and firing a hail of bullets. The officer didn't go berserk and panic...but he was obviously concerned for his own safety (and he has to make a quick decision on it). Not every decision is going to be perfect, but the goal is not to make a rash stupid one. This one wasn't perfect (in hindsight), but it's doesn't fall to the level of a stupid one either.

So maybe Nolan shouldn't have windows that are not just 'tinted', but are 96% blocked (almost total darkness), and maybe he should stop a little quicker than continuing for several blocks after being 'pulled over'. If I'm an officer those 2 things would certainly makes me suspicious. Nolan (and all of us) have our rights, but if you put yourself in a situation where you may be considered suspicious (total dark vehicle, not stopping for awhile), then you've allowed someone else (in this case an officer) using his judgment as to balancing your rights with his right to maintain his safety. It's a delicate balance, and the right decision isn't always made.
In this case, thankfully, the only thing hurt were feelings...and that's a small price IMO for everyone walking (driving) away to continue living their lives.

OFC

I fully support everything OAD has said here.

 

[Bludvls1]

Does Roy have a part time job in law enforcement?

 

[skysdad]

I'm sure if this old fart was driving around with my tinted windows so dark they couldn't see me it would have been the same result except I don't tweet and I'm not a former Duke basketball player. OFC

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

Another reason why twitter sucks. I am a big Nolan Smith (the basketball player) fan. But I don't know much about him off the court other than I am pretty sure he doesn't get into trouble. What bothers me about his "tweets" is he acknowledges that he knowingly used illegal window tint, but he didn't acknowledge that the officers had reason to use caution.

It has gotten to the point in our society that it is cool to question every encounter a black person has with cops. Even when they make the choices that lead to the encounters.

 

[Crank_it_loud]

I agree that many cops do bad things to the wrong people, but I'll never say with absolution that resisting arrest doesn't require lethal force. If the resistor is reaching for a weapon to use against the cop, I have no issue with the cop using lethal force to stop the criminal from hurting them, and potentially others.

 

[gottagonow]

I think enough has been said about this whole story already as no one was injured except maybe a bruised ego. I have had my ego bruised by a policeman several times when they have stopped me for whatever reason be it speeding, a faulty tail light or running a stop light.

 

[skysdad]

Does Roy have a part time job in law enforcement?

HOF Coach Roy Williams has turned down offers from the FBI,CIA and Secret Service several times. OFC

 

[crazyduke3]

I'm sure if this old fart was driving around with my tinted windows so dark they couldn't see me it would have been the same result except I don't tweet and I'm not a former Duke basketball player. OFC

Agreed. Nolan should have known better. Officers of the law put their lives on the line every day they clock in. This is something many police have lost their lives over. Nobody was hurt, so Nolan will be fine.

 

[gottagonow]

HOF Coach Roy Williams has turned down offers from the FBI,CIA and Secret Service several times. OFC

Haven't you ever seen the picture of Deputy Dog?

 

[skysdad]

Haven't you ever seen the picture of Deputy Dog?

Ok gotta you've went way to far on this Deputy Dawg (correct spelling by the way). I know what you are trying to do and you're trying to insinuate that Deputy Dawg looks like HOF Coach Roy Williams. That is insulting and shows no class. Deputy Dawg looks nothing like HOF Coach Roy Williams. Now if you would have said Huckleberry Hound Dog it would be considered legit. Perhaps to settle the disagreement we could ask one of our really talented posters , Dirt or anyone who can do magic with photo shop or other way to start a new poll with HOF Coach Roy Williams with choice #1 beside Deputy Dawg and choice #2 beside Huckleberry Hound Dod and let the DI board decide. OFC

 

[Dattier]

It has gotten to the point in our society that it is cool to question every encounter a black person has with cops. Even when they make the choices that lead to the encounters.

I'd say if the encounter is big enough, it should always be reviewed, which involves questions. Doesn't matter what races are involved. Police have pretty amazing authority and leverage. That's the way it should be, but there has to be a check on that power, which means they need to exercise it w/ the highest integrity, and if something terrible results, they better be able to prove it was necessary.

As for questioning such encounters specifically when the civilian involved is Black... in order for that to not make sense, you pretty much have to ignore history, continuing structural/institutional racism, and every bit of evidence that suggests Black people get worse treatment on average than White people do.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

Dat, you are correct. But more times than not, officers are wrongfully criticized for doing their job in these situations. I believe in being educated on history, but I do not believe in people using history as a reason for entitlement.

Using Nolan Smith's experience as an example, he should have excepted the result of his encounter with the officers and acknowledged the fact that he put himself in that position instead of using it as a way to publicly criticize cops.

I normally wouldn't waste too much breath defending cops, but it is sickening to see the lack of respect our society is giving law enforcement. These officer involved shootings are not new, they are just pushed through the media a lot more to fit an agenda. And it starts at the top of politics.

 

[Crank_it_loud]

"I believe in being educated on history, but I do not believe in people using history as a reason for entitlement."

Boom. There is no arguing that IMO. So, so sick of what happened in the past, but also so, so sick of some people using it as leverage today.

 

[hpnole]

I have never trusted the Durham pd after the lax screw job some years ago. Never could figure out why Sgt. Gohlibb or whatever his name was , was never at least fired for his part in the coverup. I think maybe he retired , but , should have been fired. That being said, Nolan was probably in the wrong if what they said he did was true. Thing is , law enforcement should either write up all windows that are over tinted , or change the law. Frankly, I would like to have mine tinted for several reasons, but, figure that I would get caught. Cars with over tinted windows are not supposed to get through inspection, but , either those stations are taking money or looking the other way I guess..

 

[sheyduke]

I'm a cop. I can tell you that tinted windows is no cause to pull ur gun. I can also tell u that over half the law enforcement in the state of North Carolina would agree.

Now as far as him failing to stop at the activation of blue lights does raise a certain level of awareness but not enough to pull your gun however your alert levels are already high due to not being able to see how many occupants are in the vehicle and what's the reason for not stopping right away.

The officers reaction didn't violate any rights or the fourth amendment being as how the illegal tint was the reason for the stop and by failing to pull over at the time blue lights were activated is another charge all together.

This was just a case of officers judgement and while the public won't see it they probably had write ups in their box before they checked back on after the stop

 

[ridgewaydevil]

I have never trusted the Durham pd after the lax screw job some years ago. Never could figure out why Sgt. Gohlibb or whatever his name was , was never at least fired for his part in the coverup. I think maybe he retired , but , should have been fired. That being said, Nolan was probably in the wrong if what they said he did was true. Thing is , law enforcement should either write up all windows that are over tinted , or change the law. Frankly, I would like to have mine tinted for several reasons, but, figure that I would get caught. Cars with over tinted windows are not supposed to get through inspection, but , either those stations are taking money or looking the other way I guess..

I don't understand why Nolan would even mention it now.If he wanted the attention,he should have said something when it happened.Saying something now is meaningless. This day an time an in Durham I can't blame Durham PD a damn bit. If you have never walked in a cops shoes ,i wouldn't complain.I wonder what Fergson,an baltimore played into his decision.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

Furgeson and Baltimore had everything to do with him posting on twitter. He thought that his experience had something to do with him being black as opposed to him having illegal tint as well as not stopping for several blocks.

Be real, the cops didn't pull their weapons because of the window tint alone, it was because he didn't stop until a few blocks after he was being pulled over.

Even if you don't respect cops, you should respect the need for them and respect the fact that they deal with the same people every day and know more about what goes on every day than the people that protest them.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

Sheyduke. You may be a cop, and have different standards than other cops. Drawing your weapon is a decision that requires a great deal of restraint. And as long as the officers use the proper restraint, they have the right to use their weapons as a deterrent or even as a way of surviving.

 

[sheyduke]

Sheyduke. You may be a cop, and have different standards than other cops. Drawing your weapon is a decision that requires a great deal of restraint. And as long as the officers use the proper restraint, they have the right to use their weapons as a deterrent or even as a way of surviving.

No it doesn't. restraint has nothing to do with pulling ur weapon. And you never use your weapon as a deterrent most law enforcement agencies refrain from pulling your weapon for the simple fact that the sight of your side arm under the fourth no longer allows an officer to say he's dataining some one under that person own free will. Where by most cases are thrown out due to an officer presenting his weapon. Especially when you have other impact weapons.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

Well, I guess you have the luxury of never being in those situations. For you to say restraint has nothing to do with it suggests that you are a cop in a town that has no crime.

 

[gottagonow]

Ok gotta you've went way to far on this Deputy Dawg (correct spelling by the way). I know what you are trying to do and you're trying to insinuate that Deputy Dawg looks like HOF Coach Roy Williams. That is insulting and shows no class. Deputy Dawg looks nothing like HOF Coach Roy Williams. Now if you would have said Huckleberry Hound Dog it would be considered legit. Perhaps to settle the disagreement we could ask one of our really talented posters , Dirt or anyone who can do magic with photo shop or other way to start a new poll with HOF Coach Roy Williams with choice #1 beside Deputy Dawg and choice #2 beside Huckleberry Hound Dod and let the DI board decide. OFC

I agree Sky, OAD needs to get on this pronto.

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

Ok gotta you've went way to far on this Deputy Dawg (correct spelling by the way). I know what you are trying to do and you're trying to insinuate that Deputy Dawg looks like HOF Coach Roy Williams. That is insulting and shows no class. Deputy Dawg looks nothing like HOF Coach Roy Williams. Now if you would have said Huckleberry Hound Dog it would be considered legit. Perhaps to settle the disagreement we could ask one of our really talented posters , Dirt or anyone who can do magic with photo shop or other way to start a new poll with HOF Coach Roy Williams with choice #1 beside Deputy Dawg and choice #2 beside Huckleberry Hound Dod and let the DI board decide. OFC

Okay, you got it, Sky!

OFC

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

I agree Sky, OAD needs to get on this pronto.

I'm working on it, Gottago!

OFC

 

[sheyduke]

Well, I guess you have the luxury of never being in those situations. For you to say restraint has nothing to do with it suggests that you are a cop in a town that has no crime.

I'm a cop in the biggest county in NC and has the 3rd highest crime rate. I have pulled my gun on more then one occasion but never for something as stupid as tint and am smart enough to know when a situation warrants the use of my side arm.
This incident is the reason why law enforcement is looked down upon. And unless you are in law enforcement u can speculate what cops can and can't do and what it takes to be one.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

It was said that he failed to stop for several blocks. Window tint alone is not a reason for an officer to draw his weapon, but failure to stop when being lit up and not being able to be identified is an understandable situation for an officer to be alarmed.

This is absolutely not an incident that gives any reason to look down on law enforcement. It is an incident that shows the importance of cooperation. Just because people feel like they were wronged, doesn't mean they were.

 

[sheyduke]

It was said that he failed to stop for several blocks. Window tint alone is not a reason for an officer to draw his weapon, but failure to stop when being lit up and not being able to be identified is an understandable situation for an officer to be alarmed.

This is absolutely not an incident that gives any reason to look down on law enforcement. It is an incident that shows the importance of cooperation. Just because people feel like they were wronged, doesn't mean they were.

I agree with that my stance is just that if the officers felt the need to draw weapons they should had done it from the cover of their vehicle and used the loud speaker to call commands. That's why Procedures are put in place.
It's kinda a catch 22. The officers felt the need to pull their weapons and in return Nolan felt the need to talk about it and blast them on Twitter.

 

[Dattier]

"I believe in being educated on history, but I do not believe in people using history as a reason for entitlement."

Boom. There is no arguing that IMO. So, so sick of what happened in the past, but also so, so sick of some people using it as leverage today.

Uh, yeah, there very much is an argument to be had w/ that. No one doing what you're describing is consciously using the past as leverage. They consider it the present, and it's being leveraged against them.