No "Tea Party," Bagley MIA and K's comments...

[hart2chesson]

BC may have played out of their minds today, but I think we all agree Duke contributed to this loss...

http://www.dukechronicle.com/articl...nced-in-second-half-of-loss-at-boston-college

OFC

 

[Mac9192]

Bagley taking only 4 shots in the 2nd half is bad enough, but worse than that is 3 of them were 3 point shots. Wow.
We definitely didn't deserve to win, and Duval taking the 3 when up 4 is also not the smartest shot.
Trent was really the only bright spot. No one else seemed ready. The three people that need to be at their best were the most disappointing, K being the main one and our senior and star freshman Bagley the others.
None of us like to lose, but we can only hope and pray K gets them to all play with better energy and hustle moving forward.

 

[jwill133]

Some of Tre and Grayson’s threes were not very good basketball plays.

 

[DukeDenver]

We took 30 threes. That wasn’t needed. Get the ball to the big boys.

 

[hart2chesson]

We took 30 threes. That wasn’t needed. Get the ball to the big boys.

And on perhaps the biggest possession holding a 4 pt lead, out worst 3pt shooter jacks one up from the corner. Its even more painful we didnt have a better plan for a shot coming out of a timeout! OFC

 

[Mpm277]

BC didn't shut down Bagley; we did. I've been complaining about not getting him the ball enough all year. It's like our guards don't even look for him unless we absolutely need a bucket in that situation. Yesterday was worse than that because we weren't even positioning Bagley down on the block half the time and instead using him for high ball screens and then just hovering around the three. When you have the best post player in the nation, it's just bad basketball to not try to run through him more than we do - especially in the second half of the BC game.

 

[KellenPatrick]

BC didn't shut down Bagley; we did. I've been complaining about not getting him the ball enough all year. It's like our guards don't even look for him unless we absolutely need a bucket in that situation. Yesterday was worse than that because we weren't even positioning Bagley down on the block half the time and instead using him for high ball screens and then just hovering around the three. When you have the best post player in the nation, it's just bad basketball to not try to run through him more than we do - especially in the second half of the BC game.

Exactly, and it was ridiculous yesterday. Keep that s**t up and what elite bigs would even want to consider Duke??

 

[bmbritt]

Some of Tre and Grayson’s threes were not very good basketball plays.

Duval lost this game for Duke with assistance from Grayson. They weren’t feeding the post at all and were playing one on one basketball against the guy guarding them almost every trip down the court. Hopefully, K will wake them up by not starting them in the next game and let Goldwire and O’Connell start in their place.

 

[springsportster]

Why recruit a number of giants if you are going to shoot a ton of threes? Use the size to your advantage and draw fouls.

 

[Tross282003]

Duval lost this game for Duke with assistance from Grayson. They weren’t feeding the post at all and were playing one on one basketball against the guy guarding them almost every trip down the court. Hopefully, K will wake them up by not starting them in the next game and let Goldwire and O’Connell start in their place.

K did ask Grayson to be more assertive like he was in the Michigan State game which resulted in him playing more hero ball. Duval is a point guard that can’t shoot from the outside but shot some ill advised three point shots. Most of Grayson shots were not in the flow of the offense.

Carter Jr didn’t play much in the second half.

 

[Mpm277]

Exactly, and it was ridiculous yesterday. Keep that s**t up and what elite bigs would even want to consider Duke??

I wouldn't go that far. In previous games, Bagley gets a lot of touches - I just think he should be getting even more. I think Bagley could already have a couple 40 pt games if we just had given him the ball more and let him play his game (specifically against Texas and Florida).

Duval lost this game for Duke with assistance from Grayson.

No, the loss was a team effort - couching staff included.

 

[duhondukie]

Bagley consistently played around the perimeter, he rarealy went to the block in the 2nd half.

 

[hart2chesson]

Carter Jr didn’t play much in the second half.

Noticed this too . Makes you wonder if we would have been more successful in stretches w/Carter and Javin in together, and "Bags" sitting a little so staff could point out to him ways to get more in sync offensively INSIDE in his abysmal 2nd half. Plus he played all 40 mins yesterday, he could use at least a slight breather. OFC

 

[Dattier]

An undergrad writing for the Chronicle handled this loss w/ greater maturity and perspective than most people in this thread.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

It's just a loss. A bad one, but not a season ending loss. Allen wasn't hitting his shots, but he was our best defender in the game, he had 6 steals and led the team with 6 assists. And to steal a line from THR, there were a lot of missed assists too. He did a lot of things that kept them in the game that you don't see on paper. It was frustrating to see him miss, but K always asks his shooters to shoot their way out of a slump. We don't criticize him for taking those shots when he goes 6-9.

Trent played great, there's that.

 

[RanDEVILman]

I think BC packing it in really had something to do with guys shooting too many 3s. After the first 8 minutes BC really doubled quickly and packed the lane. That said, our bugs are still good enough to get the ball and score down there.

On a similar note their hot shooting seemed to make us wary of playing Bagley and Carter together. Two bigs vs. essentially a 4 guard line up made defense tough, especially since they shot lights out. We probably need to work on a small ball lineup, ie. Bagley at the 5, headed forward because so many teams will try this tactic and so many guys can really shoot the ball theae days. This would mean Bolden seeing very little PT some games. The other option is to out size people and hope it kills them when we have the ball. Both could work, but I am partial to small ball because of the way the game has evolved.

 

[bmbritt]

An undergrad writing for the Chronicle handled this loss w/ greater maturity and perspective than most people in this thread.

So it’s immature to point out that Duval played terrible defense; was tossing up shots from the outside where he shoots around 10-15%; quit distributing the ball to Bagley and Carter in the 2nd half; and drove the lane with no control that lead into bad shots or turnovers?

It’s just my opinion that Duval has struggled the most by far in regards to getting his game to transfer from High School to college out of the 4 Freshman starter. I’m fine with him not being a great or good shooter, as long as he gets the ball to our playmakers down low and plays solid defense which Duval normally does.

Finally, it’s easy to treat all players with kid gloves and glowing admiration that get significant playing time when we are winning and point out how great each player was during a win. Think you also have to be willing to point out the areas that we need to focus on during losses and wins as well.

Now go back to giving K a reach around Dattier.

 

[hart2chesson]

So it’s immature to point out that Duval played terrible defense; was tossing up shots from the outside where he shoots around 10-15%; quit distributing the ball to Bagley and Carter in the 2nd half; and drove the lane with no control that lead into bad shots or turnovers?

It’s just my opinion that Duval has struggled the most by far in regards to getting his game to transfer from High School to college out of the 4 Freshman starter. I’m fine with him not being a great or good shooter, as long as he gets the ball to our playmakers down low and plays solid defense which Duval normally does.

Finally, it’s easy to treat all players with kid gloves and glowing admiration that get significant playing time when we are winning and point out how great each player was during a win. Think you also have to be willing to point out the areas that we need to focus on during losses and wins as well.

Now go back to giving K a reach around Dattier.

#Nailed

OFC

 

[sheyduke]

BC was triple team Bags and Carter in the post.

Carter has remained in foul trouble and at times doesn’t play tough down low. Bagley was getting frustrated downlow. He was missing shots he usually makes and I don’t know about you guys but to me he was choosing to start his offense from the perimeter.

Now for Grayson to be the senior and only captain knowing we were in the bonus he should have demanded Bagley go to the post and create. All of this is fixable however teams know how to play Duke. Pack the post on defense and make Grayson and Trent take tough three’s and Duval drive the lane with no option to kick out.

Still trying to figure out K’s comments About “ we are not that deep!” I don’t see it as a comment in terms of defensive players imo he’s saying the team isn’t that deep with players

 

[Dattier]

So it’s immature to-

No, it's immature to say...
..."Duval lost this game for Duke with assistance from Grayson."
..."Keep that [ **** ] up and what elite bigs would even want to consider Duke??"
..."Why recruit a number of giants if you are going to shoot a ton of threes?"
..."Hopefully, K will wake them up by not starting them in the next game and let Goldwire and O’Connell start in their place."
..."Now go back to giving K a reach around Dattier."
..."#Nailed"

 

[Mpm277]

The fact of the matter is that Bagley shot ONE fg in the second half. That can't happen when you have a post player like that. However, it was the first game of ACC play. And a road game at that. Our team is super young and it's still early in the season. They're figuring it out.

 

[Showenuff]

Talk about the issues, don't blow them all out of proportion. Damn. I guess some of you dumbasses honestly thought we were going undefeated with a team of freshmen this year. Basketball is about adjustments, we have to make some. Everybody here bitched whined and complained about the exact same stuff in 15. Later than now. Take a breath fellas, damn.

 

[dukesince91]

Talk about the issues, don't blow them all out of proportion. Damn. I guess some of you dumbasses honestly thought we were going undefeated with a team of freshmen this year. Basketball is about adjustments, we have to make some. Everybody here bitched whined and complained about the exact same stuff in 15. Later than now. Take a breath fellas, damn.

It's the society we live in Show. If things don't go your way, panic and blame others.

 

[gottagonow]

We all know it was a young teams worst nightmare having to face a hostile crowd at BC, we all know we played like freshmen and we all know we played poorly. Every single poster to this forum knows the particulars as to what we did to lose such as poor D, poor 3 pt shooting, BC playing out of their minds, dumb foul, but what I don't understand was Bags not shooting from his inside comfort zone except for 1 time in the 2nd half and shooting 3 ill advised 3 point attempts and Duval jacking up 3's.

I am in no way criticizing our staff or players but I am trying to have a better understanding of was Coach K allowing it because he's ok with Bags behind the arc or was it all we could get off shooting wise. Was BC playing D that tough to determine where we shot from?

 

[bmbritt]

BC was triple team Bags and Carter in the post.

Please explain how BC was triple teaming both Bagley and Carter on defense. Last time I checked, each team had five players on the court at once.

 

[RanDEVILman]

Please explain how BC was triple teaming both Bagley and Carter on defense. Last time I checked, each team had five players on the court at once.

Maybe triple team is an over exaggeration....but even with 5 on Tuesday court you can help and recover. This isn't Y ball where everyone just guards one guy or double teams result in someone being completely unguarded an entire possession. BC was definitely making a serious effort at packing the paint and doubling, sometimes tripling on the catch. They would leave Duval and Trent a little more open than other teams, hence Duval's open threes and Trents career day.

 

[sheyduke]

Please explain how BC was triple teaming both Bagley and Carter on defense. Last time I checked, each team had five players on the court at once.

Go back watch each time when Bagley was the only true Big on the floor even the commentators hit on that much as being a good plan. BC was recovering quick to the two shooters we had on the floor. When it comes to playing defense against Duke you only have to watch two shooters on the perimeter and pack the post.

Go back to the play when Bagley had the ball stripped by a 6’5” guard. Even if he would have kept the ball BC had two more players set behind him.

Then go back when Carter would get the ball. There would be two guards , one sagging off Duval and Popovic in the paint switching from Bagley to Carter.

Ok I should have just said, packed the paint but they were on both of them when ever either were in the post.

 

[bmbritt]

Go back watch each time when Bagley was the only true Big on the floor even the commentators hit on that much as being a good plan. BC was recovering quick to the two shooters we had on the floor. When it comes to playing defense against Duke you only have to watch two shooters on the perimeter and pack the post.

Go back to the play when Bagley had the ball stripped by a 6’5” guard. Even if he would have kept the ball BC had two more players set behind him.

Then go back when Carter would get the ball. There would be two guards , one sagging off Duval and Popovic in the paint switching from Bagley to Carter.

Ok I should have just said, packed the paint but they were on both of them when ever either were in the post.

Yes, the gaurds would help when Bagley caught the ball inside the paint but that wasn’t as much the issue as our gaurds and Allen not even trying to feed the post in the second half. Also, if all the teams are going to double off Allen and Trent then they have to make the other team pay by hitting outside shots or reversing the ball and have Duval, Trent and Allen drive the ball.

If we hit the outside shot or score by driving to the hole and either putting up the shot or laying it off to Bagley, Carter, DeLaurier, or Bolden for an easy layup or dunk then it will force our opponents not to double both Bagley and Carter.

Just have to play smarter and not get into a jump shooting contests against smaller teams that have more perimeter players and who shoot a bunch of 3s.

 

[RanDEVILman]

I agree Britt that more could've been done to get the ball inside down the stretch. Like I mentioned above, if we are gonna play big we better make them feel it when we have the ball, because it will be hard to defend against 4 guards with 2 bigs on the floor, especially when they shoot it well.

Which is why I would play smaller sometimes, more for defensive purposes. It's not like offense was that big of a deal, we never got the stops needed to win. Basically we lost a game because of BCs strong shooting and some philosophical indecision or inexperience. K will figure it out. His history says he will play some small ball. But this roster is geared towards being large. We will see.

 

[sheyduke]

Yes, the gaurds would help when Bagley caught the ball inside the paint but that wasn’t as much the issue as our gaurds and Allen not even trying to feed the post in the second half. Also, if all the teams are going to double off Allen and Trent then they have to make the other team pay by hitting outside shots or reversing the ball and have Duval, Trent and Allen drive the ball.

If we hit the outside shot or score by driving to the hole and either putting up the shot or laying it off to Bagley, Carter, DeLaurier, or Bolden for an easy layup or dunk then it will force our opponents not to double both Bagley and Carter.

Just have to play smarter and not get into a jump shooting contests against smaller teams that have more perimeter players and who shoot a bunch of 3s.

I agree and Duke began to simply settle for outside shots and jumpers. Hopefully these couples days off will give time to practice and work on some things.

 

[Laettner]

30 threes attempted is always our downfall.

 

[Liftee]

Some of those 3s could have been mid range shots, including Bagley and Carter. We'll be seeing a lot of the same strategy so the coaching staff will have to figure out the answer.

If Trent hadn't been shooting lights out it would have been worse.

The fact remains that Duke scored enough points to win but had no way of stopping the great jump shooting of BC. Neither man to man or zone slowed them down. That is the main area that needs to be addressed.

 

[HeLooks2MuchLikeDave]

Well, since we lost, the sun has come up twice and we are still the most talented team in the country. The last time we were this talented (and healthy) we went through a really bad opening stretch of ACC play, including getting blown out at home by Miami, after which most people were calling for K to retire. But they got the screws put to them and had to play 4 top 10 teams in 20 days and the rest was history.

If we can head into the Miami game on January 15 with one loss, we will have had a bunch of practice time under our belts. And then only one more ranked opponent on the road.