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Motivation ran high for Pitt, and K still expressed concerns over bench-

Well of course we're not deep coach. You haven't developed the guys or let them play. You've got guys who can be solid players on that bench. Marshall was one of the worst I've ever seen and even he put in a solid year after he finally got playing time. There's guys on this bench with so much more talent than he ever had. We've got to develop them and stop looking at them like "practice players".
 
I didn’t take his comments as bad as the previous ones.

I don’t think the bench is deep in terms of experience and play time in actual games. However that said I think Dukes bench is deep in talent. K said they are talented and they are but experience is needed and I think K saw that at Pitt. If he wants more hustle and a deeper rotation he’s simply gonna have to repeat the substitution in the Pitt game. Granted he’ll tighten the bench as the season goes on but every player that hit the floor was hustling.
 
K may be using it as a motivational tool. Maybe he knows he needs some production from the bench and is trying to fire them up. We all know up to this point relying on the iron 5 has a long way to go. The bench guys can hopefully play well and push some of the starters, plus give them needed breaks. I will wait to see how many guys are used in a game much closer than 43-13 before saying he's going to use them.
I bought into the hype that a bunch of freshmen would be automatic strong contenders for the title. Before this season my belief has always been freshmen have a lot to learn. This year I was shouting Duke's coming, Duke's coming! Then we lose and I'm mad as hell. I've crashed down to reality. It doesn't mean we still can't get there, but I wasn't ready for the lumps we would take going down that road.
My thinking is K is mad and I think that's a good thing for us.
 
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Well of course we're not deep coach. You haven't developed the guys or let them play. You've got guys who can be solid players on that bench. Marshall was one of the worst I've ever seen and even he put in a solid year after he finally got playing time. There's guys on this bench with so much more talent than he ever had. We've got to develop them and stop looking at them like "practice players".

Josh Hairston is clearly the worst to actually step on the floor besides the walk ons.
 
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Well of course we're not deep coach. You haven't developed the guys or let them play.
Why the "or"? Is playing undeveloped players cool with you? And why is it on K? Why is it so hard to accept that not everyone plays and not everyone is as capable as everyone else?


You've got guys who can be solid players on that bench. Marshall was one of the worst I've ever seen and even he put in a solid year after he finally got playing time.
Marshall was a McDAA, 7 feet tall, and a 5th year senior before he averaged over 10 minutes per game. It wasn't that he always could have performed the way he did as a senior; he played b/c he had improved and b/c there was no one else ahead of him. Statistically, he improved in nearly every measurable category each year. He didn't "finally get PT," as if it was some arbitrary decision by K; he finally earned that PT.
 
Why the "or"? Is ....
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I think K would be making better sense by saying "HIS" bench isn't very deep.
Play the boys coach and it will become pretty deep.
 
Sooooo bashing guys that gave us 4 years of their time and effort. Well done group.
 
Some of the comments K makes I think he tries to use as motivational ploys. When he says "we're not deep" I almost feel as if he's saying "we're not deep, yet."
Ha, I reminded of a retiring senator saying that what looked like a lack of strategy was in fact a lack of strategy. Pretty sure when Coach says we're not deep he thinks we're not deep.

Wake's O is mid-forties on Kenpom, same as BC and NCS. Pitt's around 220. Expect a close game, which is frustrating. Hope I'm wrong.
 
Ha, I reminded of a retiring senator saying that what looked like a lack of strategy was in fact a lack of strategy. Pretty sure when Coach says we're not deep he thinks we're not deep.

Wake's O is mid-forties on Kenpom, same as BC and NCS. Pitt's around 220. Expect a close game, which is frustrating. Hope I'm wrong.

Line's 16.5, but I expect a closer game too:

https://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2018/1/13/16887294/next-up-wake-forest-duke-basketball

OFC
 
Why the "or"? Is playing undeveloped players cool with you? And why is it on K? Why is it so hard to accept that not everyone plays and not everyone is as capable as everyone else?



Marshall was a McDAA, 7 feet tall, and a 5th year senior before he averaged over 10 minutes per game. It wasn't that he always could have performed the way he did as a senior; he played b/c he had improved and b/c there was no one else ahead of him. Statistically, he improved in nearly every measurable category each year. He didn't "finally get PT," as if it was some arbitrary decision by K; he finally earned that PT.



Really? under developed? I can't tell if you haven't realized that both game time and practice time both help guys improve. Nobody is asking for 20-30 mpg but guys need minutes in games to help stay motivated, focused and in the program. We've got high 4 star and high 3 star guys on the bench doing nothing for the past couple of years. Let's not pretend like these guys don't have anything to contribute at all.
Marshall is one of the only guys we may ever see at duke that is willing to stay 5 years and really only play in one year.


Dukephysics I'm glad you posted about facts. Let's go over about how those "facts" are wrong. Marshall never averaged more than ten minutes a game before his red shirt senior year. he averaged 8.4 and 9.6 mpg. Close enough but still false. Here's the kicker... Marshal's stats didn't improve much when given more playing time... He stayed around the same numbers when you adjust it

Soph year 8.4 mpg 1.3 ppg 2.2rbds
Junior year 9.6 mpg 2.2 ppg 2.4 rbds
Senior year 30.5 mpg 8.3 ppg 8.6 rbds


so let's go ahead and adjust his minutes per year and round both his soph and junior years minutes up to 10 so it's easier to look at

With 30 mpg both his soph and junior years he'd average

Soph 3.9 ppg 6.6 rbds
Junior 6.8 ppg 7.2 rbds

So you're saying he improved so much that he "earned" his playing time? really? from his junior to his senior year he improved to score 2 more ppg and about 2 extra rebounds per game. Stastically he was about the same player those 3 years. You could tell though that he gained something that players at duke don't seem to gain in practice which was confidence. He was given a chance to play and he became a solid player when given an actual chance to contribute. The numbers don't reflect that there was some kind of huge difference of improvement from his soph to junior to senior comparison.


Now let's look at marshall's "mcdonalds all american" status. Let's be honest... him being a MCDAA was an absolute joke. Marshall definitely got the "Duke bump" that year and was always viewed as a huge project player. Dude was ranked 79 in the top 100 for rivals. That's not a true burger boy type player. Marshall averaged like 11 ppg and 11 rbds as a senior in high school as well (as a 7 footer). Those are ok stats but a burger boy is supposed to be an elite guy. I liked what marshall gave us his last year he's a great guy but he didn't deserve to be a MCDAA by far.


One more point to make have you looked at our bench this year? we have two upper classmen. Vrank, who can basically be looked at as an underclassman since he doesn't play, and allen. We may turn over a large part of our roster every season but we have no leadership/experience because we keep having a large amount of transfers and the ones that stay never play. Sorry but it's a problem that does need to be looked into.
 
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Yes when you have a starting five consisting of Bagley, Carter, Allen, Trent, Duval (5 potential 1st rounders) you play your “undeveloped” players if for no other reason than to keep the aforementioned 5 from breaking down. Yes even if it means a few losses. This is Duke and those “undeveloped” players on the bench are also highly rated players who at the very bare minimum, should be able to steal some minutes, minimize fouls to the starters, dribble the ball up the court and maybe even score sometimes. Not to mention, you don’t have to always sub in a way that takes all your “developed” players off the floor at the same time. Goldwire, you gotta be able to come in and spell Duval sometimes, O’Connell you gotta be able to come in and spell Grayson and Trent sometimes, Marques and Javin y’all gotta be able to come in and spell Bagley and Carter sometimes, and since Marquese and Javin are hurt, Vrank, Jack and Justin need to fill that role. 5-15 minutes a game will help a lot in terms of just keeping guys fresh, and having a better chance of being healthy through the duration of the season and if one of them did get hurt, then maybe just maybe some of that 5-15 minutes a game vs stiff ACC competition could benefit a guy who all of a sudden finds himself thrust into a major role. JMHO of course.
 
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...even if it means a few losses. This is Duke...
You seriously put these words next to each other?
We save our best players for later even if it means losing now?

At what point does a person acknowledge that there is another way to do things that has been a wee bit successful over the better part of 4 decades, and that is the way the GOAT does things? How in the world does someone ever type "This is Duke" w/o catching themselves and remembering that the very thing they complain about constantly every season is undeniably, definitively Duke, too? At what point does a person shut up and accept the "bad" that the 9th guy isn't always going to get off the bench with the overwhelming good e've experienced as Duke fans?
 
Glad you posted something meaningful to add to the conversation. Just like you to say your opinion sucks without backing your thoughts up.
He was right. Simple truths often require few words.
 
You seriously put these words next to each other?
We save our best players for later even if it means losing now?

At what point does a person acknowledge that there is another way to do things that has been a wee bit successful over the better part of 4 decades, and that is the way the GOAT does things? How in the world does someone ever type "This is Duke" w/o catching themselves and remembering that the very thing they complain about constantly every season is undeniably, definitively Duke, too? At what point does a person shut up and accept the "bad" that the 9th guy isn't always going to get off the bench with the overwhelming good e've experienced as Duke fans?

I’m a 40 year old from New Jersey and been a fan since Alaa Abdelnaby (New Jersey) stepped on campus. I say that to say I’ve seen, loved and cherished Duke basketball for a pretty long time, and during that time K has used many different ways to get the results we are all very thankful for. As for “at what point do we shut up as fans on a message board about using the bench?” Well that sounds like a general request from you so while I can’t help you with others’ choices, I myself will shut up about it starting today my good man.
 
He was right. Simple truths often require few words.

Ha yeah. That's the sad part of where we are in this country. You give your opinion and the other says " You're wrong!" and just walks away. No justification no meaningful thought process nothing. Tell me where I'm wrong I'd like to hear it.
 
Ha yeah. That's the sad part of where we are in this country. You give your opinion and the other says " You're wrong!" and just walks away. No justification no meaningful thought process nothing. Tell me where I'm wrong I'd like to hear it.
You wrote a novel filled w/ spin masquerading as fact and you're going to defend it as fact. No point bothering w/ that foolishness.
 
You wrote a novel filled w/ spin masquerading as fact and you're going to defend it as fact. No point bothering w/ that foolishness.

But you have to admit, he's partially right. We all know that Goldwire scored three points in three minutes last night. Obviously if he had played 40 minutes he would have went off for 40. It's common sense.
 
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Bench stole minutes last night and what a strong “finish” to the game. A strong finish to the season is upon us.
 
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