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KenPom Defense

Originally posted by jnastasi:
Very alarming to say the least. If you're not concerned about these stats then you're just plain living in denial. It's the one reason I don't think we make the final four. With that said though, barring a first round knockout, I'm really proud of the way this team has fought this year. They don't roll over and die like some of the younger teams in the past. It's another reason why I give us a chance to make a run.
So the only people who are in the denial are the ones who don't agree with you then?

Our defense has not been solid by any stretch of the imagination, but the defense hasn't flat out "sucked" and neither does this team. And I personally think we get to the championship game. But I'm in denial, so I'll just head back to recovery.
 
Originally posted by Irish Assassin:
Okafor is lazy defender. Teams are not afraid to go right at him and Jefferson. Jefferson just doesnt have the talent to be a great defender, Okafor does, hes just lazy. Not gonna win with your best player being one of the worse defenders on the team.
How Dare You!

You can't be a true Duke fan!

You cannot critique a Duke player like that!

#sarcasm
 
Dukiehokie you either misunderstood or misread my entire post. I said if you're not concerned you're living in denial. Why wouldn't we be concerned about our defense? It's not horrible but it's not consistently good either. Specifically our transition defense. Never did I use the the term "sucked" so I'm not sure why you felt the need to put it in quotes. I also said I thought we had a chance to make the four but didn't think it would happen.
 
Originally posted by jnastasi:
Dukiehokie you either misunderstood or misread my entire post. I said if you're not concerned you're living in denial. Why wouldn't we be concerned about our defense? It's not horrible but it's not consistently good either. Specifically our transition defense. Never did I use the the term "sucked" so I'm not sure why you felt the need to put it in quotes. I also said I thought we had a chance to make the four but didn't think it would happen.
I don't think anyone on this board has stated that they love the way this team is defending and that they should pressure more on that end. We have been saying this for a few years now that we would like Duke to move to a more containment defense if they plan on playing man to man. We have seen K use zone more and more than we have EVER seen. K has made adjustments and I have to assume he will continue to make them. VT ate Duke alive because they now have a competent coach who understood that on one side, Duke would have to either run Okafor (in the 3-2) or Amile (in the 2-3) out to defend a corner 3. 12 3s are a killer anytime but Duke won the game and withstood that.

I don't think Okafor is traditionally lazy on the defensive end. I think he's being asked to stay in the game due to his offensive game. I remember us saying the same about Mason Plumlee defending. IIRC I don't think Okafor has fouled out in a game this year which is crazy considering he is playing so many minutes.

In the end, let's also not forget that Duke has won at UVA, Wisconsin, Syracuse and throttled ND. Duke will play to level of the competition due to youth but to think Duke can't win in the NCAAT because they lack a Top 20 defense according to kenpom is alarming too.
 
Originally posted by dukiejay:
Last night's game bumped us up 10 spots to #69.
I wondered how much that game would do for our defensive position. Duke really played well on the defensive side of the ball last night.

OFC
 
Been taking in all of the "experts" opinions on Duke's chances and so often I've been hearing "Well their KenPom Adj Defense ranking isn't in the top 20..." and that being the reason to not consider them a title contender this year.

While it is true that currently Duke's ranking is 57th, I'd love to know what our Adj D rating is since the change we made for the Louisville game that pretty much turned the season around?

Anyone have access to that information or seen it anywhere? I have a feeling we'd be much higher than 57, but I could be wrong. I think it'd be a more accurate rating for how we're playing now as prior to that we weren't mixing defenses the way we have been since.
 
I agree that our number would be higher based part way through the season. Mixing in zone has changed this team and so our numbers look worse.

At the same time Okafors injury hurts most on the defensive end. HIs decreased movement is much more noticeable on that end of the floor.

This team is good enough to get to the elite 8 on talent. The Zags or Cyclones will be really difficult.
 
Originally posted by Tim1515:
I agree that our number would be higher based part way through the season. Mixing in zone has changed this team and so our numbers look worse.

At the same time Okafors injury hurts most on the defensive end. HIs decreased movement is much more noticeable on that end of the floor.

This team is good enough to get to the elite 8 on talent. The Zags or Cyclones will be really difficult.
Yes, Okafor's D has been poor for much of the year -- but it seems even a little worse after the ankle injury. Hopefully this week off + the fact that the game on Friday probably won't push him to play heavy minutes will give him some time to get a little healthier.

While we certainly can lose before the elite 8, the draw is pretty good to getting that far. We avoided the real landmines on the 4/5 seedline -- i.e., UNC and MD. A Gonzaga or Iowa State elite 8 matchup would be quite difficult, but let's see how the next couple week play out. Gonzaga's had a tremendous year and looked very good in the Arizona game I watched, before basically choking the game away. With that said, they only have 1 RPI top 30 win -- against a SMU team that doesn't have any great wins itself -- and Mark Few has never advanced past the Sweet 16. It's not unreasonable to think they may not make it. As for ISU, they're incredibly dangerous -- but also very volatile -- i.e., 3 losses to teams that finished with losing records. I do think they have a good draw to make the elite 8 -- particularly if Gonzaga stumbles -- but I wouldn't be shocked if they suffer a where did that come from loss. It's a team that has nobody who can even remotely handle Okafor (only 2 regular rotation players over 6'6 -- George Niang at 6'8 230 and Jameel McKay at 6'9 215), doesn't rebound well, and shoots an incredibly high volume of 3s -- a 100 more than even Duke. Definitely a dangerous team if they're hitting their shots, but definitely a beatable team -- especially outside of their home gym.
 
Originally posted by aah555:

Originally posted by Tim1515:
I agree that our number would be higher based part way through the season. Mixing in zone has changed this team and so our numbers look worse.

At the same time Okafors injury hurts most on the defensive end. HIs decreased movement is much more noticeable on that end of the floor.

This team is good enough to get to the elite 8 on talent. The Zags or Cyclones will be really difficult.
Yes, Okafor's D has been poor for much of the year -- but it seems even a little worse after the ankle injury. Hopefully this week off + the fact that the game on Friday probably won't push him to play heavy minutes will give him some time to get a little healthier.

While we certainly can lose before the elite 8, the draw is pretty good to getting that far. We avoided the real landmines on the 4/5 seedline -- i.e., UNC and MD. A Gonzaga or Iowa State elite 8 matchup would be quite difficult, but let's see how the next couple week play out. Gonzaga's had a tremendous year and looked very good in the Arizona game I watched, before basically choking the game away. With that said, they only have 1 RPI top 30 win -- against a SMU team that doesn't have any great wins itself -- and Mark Few has never advanced past the Sweet 16. It's not unreasonable to think they may not make it. As for ISU, they're incredibly dangerous -- but also very volatile -- i.e., 3 losses to teams that finished with losing records. I do think they have a good draw to make the elite 8 -- particularly if Gonzaga stumbles -- but I wouldn't be shocked if they suffer a where did that come from loss. It's a team that has nobody who can even remotely handle Okafor (only 2 regular rotation players over 6'6 -- George Niang at 6'8 230 and Jameel McKay at 6'9 215), doesn't rebound well, and shoots an incredibly high volume of 3s -- a 100 more than even Duke. Definitely a dangerous team if they're hitting their shots, but definitely a beatable team -- especially outside of their home gym.
I was really hoping either the Zags or Wisconsin would be in UK's bracket. I think they match up well with them. Putting Kansas in with UK is pretty boring. I don't even think Kansas will make it to the elite 8. They are not a very good team.

The problem Duke has is defensive; esp. dealing with players (particularly wings and PFs) that are aggressive and athletic.

Okafor is a lumbering giant right now and just is not a defensive threat in the middle - there's no intimidation factor on the inside (unlike UK whose centers, while not as talented or physical offensively, bring a great deal more to the table in athleticism on the defensive end).

Winslow has the athleticism and physicality but still struggles as a freshman from time to time.

Jefferson is just so tentative and passive on D.

The schedule could fall favorably for Duke to make it to the FF (and I think they got a good bracket). But, ultimately, if I just step back and look at the team's strengths and weaknesses, I think Duke can only go as far as the sweet 16/elite 8.
 
Originally posted by youngman42:

Originally posted by aah555:

Originally posted by Tim1515:
I agree that our number would be higher based part way through the season. Mixing in zone has changed this team and so our numbers look worse.

At the same time Okafors injury hurts most on the defensive end. HIs decreased movement is much more noticeable on that end of the floor.

This team is good enough to get to the elite 8 on talent. The Zags or Cyclones will be really difficult.
Yes, Okafor's D has been poor for much of the year -- but it seems even a little worse after the ankle injury. Hopefully this week off + the fact that the game on Friday probably won't push him to play heavy minutes will give him some time to get a little healthier.

While we certainly can lose before the elite 8, the draw is pretty good to getting that far. We avoided the real landmines on the 4/5 seedline -- i.e., UNC and MD. A Gonzaga or Iowa State elite 8 matchup would be quite difficult, but let's see how the next couple week play out. Gonzaga's had a tremendous year and looked very good in the Arizona game I watched, before basically choking the game away. With that said, they only have 1 RPI top 30 win -- against a SMU team that doesn't have any great wins itself -- and Mark Few has never advanced past the Sweet 16. It's not unreasonable to think they may not make it. As for ISU, they're incredibly dangerous -- but also very volatile -- i.e., 3 losses to teams that finished with losing records. I do think they have a good draw to make the elite 8 -- particularly if Gonzaga stumbles -- but I wouldn't be shocked if they suffer a where did that come from loss. It's a team that has nobody who can even remotely handle Okafor (only 2 regular rotation players over 6'6 -- George Niang at 6'8 230 and Jameel McKay at 6'9 215), doesn't rebound well, and shoots an incredibly high volume of 3s -- a 100 more than even Duke. Definitely a dangerous team if they're hitting their shots, but definitely a beatable team -- especially outside of their home gym.
I was really hoping either the Zags or Wisconsin would be in UK's bracket. I think they match up well with them. Putting Kansas in with UK is pretty boring. I don't even think Kansas will make it to the elite 8. They are not a very good team.

The problem Duke has is defensive; esp. dealing with players (particularly wings and PFs) that are aggressive and athletic.

Okafor is a lumbering giant right now and just is not a defensive threat in the middle - there's no intimidation factor on the inside (unlike UK whose centers, while not as talented or physical offensively, bring a great deal more to the table in athleticism on the defensive end).

Winslow has the athleticism and physicality but still struggles as a freshman from time to time.

Jefferson is just so tentative and passive on D.

The schedule could fall favorably for Duke to make it to the FF (and I think they got a good bracket). But, ultimately, if I just step back and look at the team's strengths and weaknesses, I think Duke can only go as far as the sweet 16/elite 8.
I admittedly don't know much about San Diego St., Utah, or G-Town (though I've seen the latter play), but they don't really fit the profiles of teams that we struggle against -- i.e., teams that have guards / wings who can both spread us out with the 3 pt. shot and drive aggressively to the hoop by creating their own shot off the dribble. Although we've certainly had our problems with focus at times this year, and we obviously lack experience across the board (only two guys who've really played any meaningful minutes in an NCAA tourney) -- the Duke team that's shown up most nights should be able to get to the elite 8 IMO with this draw. We do have weaknesses, but really lack of focus / intensity has really been the biggest foe of this team in its losses. When we've been ready to play, the positives of this team far outweigh the negatives you mention.

Assuming we get to the elite 8, then I think those weaknesses may come back to haunt us -- particularly with our poor FT shooting. But, frankly, I think you could say that about any team other than UK. When you look out how the brackets fall, I don't think there's a single team on our side of the bracket who would be favored against us in a matchup-- so I'm hardly ready to set a limit on where we can go. The odds of any individual team of making the title game are low, but after UK, I do think we've got the 2nd best odds -- and nothing about our current draw suggests otherwise to me. In fact, I think the tourney committee did us a real favor by bundling Wisconsin, Arizona, and UK on the other side of the bracket -- i.e., the three teams I viewed as being the most legitimate title threats to Duke.

I think a team like Wisconsin, for instance, is far less likely to advance b/c it's going to have to get through UNC, Arizona (in what will be a quasi-road environment), and UK to even get to the title game. I'd be more inclined to agree with your point of view if we were looking at that kind of path.


This post was edited on 3/16 1:58 PM by aah555
 
Duke has now jumped up to 44th in defensive efficiency and they are 2nd in offensive efficiency behind UK. Utah is 7th in defense and 16th in offense. In the overall ratings (going across all stats), Duke is 6th and Utah is 8th. Gonna be a tough game... Go Duke!

This post was edited on 3/23 10:07 AM by LetsGoDukies
 
Actually, I think that you can throw all the season stat's out the window now. It really doesn't matter where you ranked previously, it is now down to what are you capable of now!
Speaking only of Duke, my main worry is our youth and inconsistency, plus we have been shooting hot and we are due to go cold. I hope that doesn't happen in the next 4 games, but you never know.
I think our Focus is here to stay, and if we play defense like we have been, talking, switching, and helping, I could care less what the previous stat's say, we will survive and advance. If we do not do the 3 things above, it will be over Friday.
Go Duke!!


JC-OFC
 
Utah is one of the more balanced teams in the country --- both offensively and defensively. We're going to have our hands full Friday night. But I'm excited for our guys. This is their time.
 
Originally posted by Crank_it_loud:
Just for clarity Wisconsin is number 1 in offensive efficiency per Kenpom....
Good catch.. UK is 1st in defensive efficiency.. My bad.
 
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