Jalen opts out

[jwill133]

I agree to some degree, but I have no problem with a kid who comes to Duke, who is, say, a top 30-50 ranked recruit but not a one and done, and he keeps seeing one and done players recruited over him and never gets any playing time for 2-3 years. I think that’s a deeper problem at Duke. You don’t see a whole lot of that at schools that our top 20 programs but get very few want it done players, they simply develop those guys and they stay three or four years. I think Duke would be better suited to try to get one top recruit a year and have a bunch of third and four year players getting minutes and playing alongside the player. The program would do better, make more NCAA runs, with fewer transfers because a freshman who is a 35th ranked player and comes to Duke will have some confidence that if he works hard, by his second or third year he’ll be getting significant minutes and playing time. I think we need fewer players like a Jalen Johnson and fewer top 10 recruits in a given year in general. They aren’t going to lead Duke to a title, they don’t have the maturity and don’t play defense or understand team defense concepts; all they are going to do is interest more one and done types who see Duke as merely a steppingstone to get some notoriety and become a lottery pick. That hurts the program, it makes for a poorer product on the basketball court, and rarely leads to an exciting NCAA tournament for the program.

in fact, if I were Coach K, I would tell a top 10 recruit that we want you, but you’re not gonna play 35 minutes a game and take all the minutes away from a 50th ranked player who is a junior or senior. You’re going have to learn to play defense, and be a team player.

It’s having two or three one and done types to take all the minutes that hurt the program and hurt college basketball as a whole.

To paint a general picture, the One and Done "era" started in 2006 when the draft rules changed. 2007-2009 were the darkest 3 years I can remember as a Duke fan, we were outmatched talent wise and fell short in the tournament every year, we weren't landing any top recruits, and UNC was dominating us. Obviously in 2010 everything came together, our young guys turned into veterans and we won the title, that was awesome.

However, what's funny, K essentially attempted your formula up until 2015. 2011 our only OAD was Kyrie. 2012 was Rivers. 2013 we actually missed on all top guys but had Sulaimon as our only 5 star. 2014 was Parker. We fell short every single year, and 2012/2014 we were the laughingstock of the tournament. It's just not that easy, what if you miss on your top target? Once one guy commits are we just supposed to tell the other guys to go somewhere else? Seems hard.

I don't have an answer to our struggles this year. What I can say, is that in 2012 UK won the title by taking as many talented guys as they could, and we won in 2015 with this same method. The Zion team was better than Virginia who won the title. There are only 2 schools doing this method (Duke and UK) and each won a title in the last 10 years, that is MUCH more efficient than 50 other major programs with most having 0 titles to show for it. I don't think K needs to make a drastic change to the program, other than lets only recruit guys who want to be at Duke, whether it's for 1 year or 4. What will also make our program much better is to return "fringe" guys, Cassius Stanley sure would make us better this year. Let's hope Steward and Moore stick around next year and see what happens, because it seems like Baldwin isn't coming to Duke.

 

[acc hoops]

I will never call him a coward. I will however call him a quitter and could care less what he does in the NBA. If you are worried about the injury tell Coach you want to remain with the team but stay on the bench and be there to support your teammates.

 

[jamsession3]

The Jalen Johnson saga is so much bigger than OAD. Jalen had trouble adjusting to the expectations, playing with no fans and team chemistry.

If Duke played a 'normal' season of games Mark Williams would've started by game 4 and Jalen would've been playing the 3 or 4, mostly 3.

Another challenged would've been his work ethic. Moore got off to a sluggish start, but with consistent practice and fans, he might've challenged Jalen's pt.

There are so many factors outside of the OAD. The narrative for Jalen is about Jalen, not the issue of OAD.

 

[AlanInNJ]

I will never call him a coward. I will however call him a quitter and could care less what he does in the NBA. If you are worried about the injury tell Coach you want to remain with the team but stay on the bench and be there to support your teammates.

Yup, agree 100%. If it is a nagging injury, or even if it wasn't, wouldn't it be a MUCH better look to sit out the rest of the season, cheer the team on from the bench for a few weeks and then enter the draft? I just don't get it. I think K made the decision for him based on the situation and his mindset.

 

[lyonhawk]

To paint a general picture, the One and Done "era" started in 2006 when the draft rules changed. 2007-2009 were the darkest 3 years I can remember as a Duke fan, we were outmatched talent wise and fell short in the tournament every year, we weren't landing any top recruits, and UNC was dominating us. Obviously in 2010 everything came together, our young guys turned into veterans and we won the title, that was awesome.

However, what's funny, K essentially attempted your formula up until 2015. 2011 our only OAD was Kyrie. 2012 was Rivers. 2013 we actually missed on all top guys but had Sulaimon as our only 5 star. 2014 was Parker. We fell short every single year, and 2012/2014 we were the laughingstock of the tournament. It's just not that easy, what if you miss on your top target? Once one guy commits are we just supposed to tell the other guys to go somewhere else? Seems hard.

I don't have an answer to our struggles this year. What I can say, is that in 2012 UK won the title by taking as many talented guys as they could, and we won in 2015 with this same method. The Zion team was better than Virginia who won the title. There are only 2 schools doing this method (Duke and UK) and each won a title in the last 10 years, that is MUCH more efficient than 50 other major programs with most having 0 titles to show for it. I don't think K needs to make a drastic change to the program, other than lets only recruit guys who want to be at Duke, whether it's for 1 year or 4. What will also make our program much better is to return "fringe" guys, Cassius Stanley sure would make us better this year. Let's hope Steward and Moore stick around next year and see what happens, because it seems like Baldwin isn't coming to Duke.

I would say that 2015 changed K’s plans. At the time, we thought only Okafor would be OAD. The we lost Tyus and Winslow and only had Ingram coming in to reload. After that year, he went all in and getting as many top kids as possible.

 

[christophero]

I think we are also speculating without a lot of the inside information. And I'm guessing it's not good. But again we just don't know.

 

[jamsession3]

I was one of Matt Hurts biggest critics, but with Jalen gone his development is going to be even greater. The kid is playing.

Furthermore, I will monitor the growth of Brakefield, Moore, and Williams. This will turn into a great blessing.

 

[Devilinside]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you don't know Jalen or his situation enough to know if he is a coward or not and am guessing you probably wouldn't say that to his face . This may not have even been his decision. Kids get bad advice all the time from parents and most of the time they are the ones calling the shots in these type of situations. A guy sitting behind a keyboard calling a teenager a coward, without truly knowing anything.......maybe that seems cowardly

Keep in mind that there is a difference between a coward and a quitter. While he may not be the former, he is the latter. A coward leaves out of fear of something. A quitter leaves because things are not going the way he wants them to.

 

[christophero]

It's a complicated situation. He's young and I'm sure he will be drafted so I wish him well. But it definitely would have been better for team development(and Jalen frankly) if he had opted for the G league and allowed the team to develop. Because I have no doubt our record would have been better had he done that, and now it is kind of too late for us tournament wise. Even if he opted out at Christmas, which I suspect he wanted to do, we would be better off now. Still I wish him well and think we can still build for next year.

 

[Mac9192]

Only solution I can think of to offset any of this “limit of players chosen or signed” talk, is playing time. We have to figure out a better way that our kids get played. Like Baker’s minutes the last 4 games: 2, 18, 16, 0. Relying on our freshmen works until they struggle, and due to lack of game time our other guys have no confidence when they play, or they press to impress, resulting in them looking like Ollie from Hoosiers. A little more pt with them could pay off. Instead of 37-40 minutes per game by our stars, possibly a few more minutes on the bench can help as well.

Justin Robinson, after sitting the bench for years, gets thrown in to a game, and looks like he belongs. Did the light bulb just go off for him, or was he put in as a hope and prayer, but showed to be solid? I realize not everyone is like him, but you have to wonder if a few kids aren’t sitting that could help a little more than they do.

 

[christophero]

Robinson looked good every time he got in the game. Even in garbage time he would clean up. I think White ate up all of Robinson's minutes.

 

[jnastasi]

Usually wish these guys the best whether I agree with their decisions or not but I’ll pass with this kid. Quit his hs team, quit his college team. Says a lot about what he’s about. Adios.

 

[IFaZe]

Keep in mind that there is a difference between a coward and a quitter. While he may not be the former, he is the latter. A coward leaves out of fear of something. A quitter leaves because things are not going the way he wants them to.

Lol...he’s leaving because of exactly that...”fear of something” soooo I’m not gonna call him a coward but yea...

 

[jamsession3]

Lol...he’s leaving because of exactly that...”fear of something” soooo I’m not gonna call him a coward but yea...

I definitely understand your point, but keep this in mind. Heart, Pride, and Perseverance is something that's inside many of us, but it's cultivated in the mist of challenges. Jalen is still developing. He wasn't as ready as many of us thought to be the 'Man'.

What made Zion so special is he went claimed the title as the Man, before and after the injury. Jalen is just not there yet. And to be honest, don't want the responsibility. Does that make him a coward? No. What it should do is send the message to fans, regardless of your rank, let's see you play. Now, those two guards? They ready!

 

[IFaZe]

Without fear there isn’t courage. He doesn’t have courage 🤷‍♂️

 

[Oneandnotdone38]

Then why not just declare for the G league before you wasted everyone's time.

 

[krzyzewskiville]

This isn’t a bad look for Duke....this is a very bad look for Jalen. Forget him quitting on Duke. He quit on his coaches and teammates, his brothers. This certainly raises more eyebrows about him, not Duke.

I wish him the best of luck and hope he reaches his life goals. They’re going to be tough to attain if he continues down the path of the last two years, though.

This is exactly right. With the Jalen exit, I actually - and I almost never do this - went to my "inside contact." (I really do have one lol).

I'll just say this - and I'm sure Dukiejay is hearing the same. When you "opt out" with three weeks left in the season, you're not opting out, you're quitting. He quit his HS team because he couldn't follow rules, and he is leaving Duke now for various reasons (I don't know them). What I do know, is that the sentiment about him with his teammates is that he's selfish and lazy.

Jeff Goodman stated when his foot injury happened that there was good reason to believe he wasn't hurt. Initially I thought that was crazy. I was told yesterday that it's quite likely, he wasn't hurt.

I can't count the number of times I've come on DI and said something bad about a player or ex player. I simply don't do it. With Jalen however, this is addition by subtraction, that I do believe. He played eight minutes on Saturday and Duke played one of its two best games of the season. It's not going to hurt us to not have him.

I wish him the best of luck, and I hope he learns this won't work at the next level. His "camp" isn't doing him any favors. There is no doubt in my mind, this will hurt his draft stock but he's made his choice.

Duke will be fine. I hope for Jalen, he ends up fine, too.

 

[timo0402]

This is exactly right. With the Jalen exit, I actually - and I almost never do this - went to my "inside contact." (I really do have one lol).

I'll just say this - and I'm sure Dukiejay is hearing the same. When you "opt out" with three weeks left in the season, you're not opting out, you're quitting. He quit his HS team because he couldn't follow rules, and he is leaving Duke now for various reasons (I don't know them). What I do know, is that the sentiment about him with his teammates is that he's selfish and lazy.

Jeff Goodman stated when his foot injury happened that there was good reason to believe he wasn't hurt. Initially I thought that was crazy. I was told yesterday that it's quite likely, he wasn't hurt.

I can't count the number of times I've come on DI and said something bad about a player or ex player. I simply don't do it. With Jalen however, this is addition by subtraction, that I do believe. He played eight minutes on Saturday and Duke played one of its two best games of the season. It's not going to hurt us to not have him.

I wish him the best of luck, and I hope he learns this won't work at the next level. His "camp" isn't doing him any favors. There is no doubt in my mind, this will hurt his draft stock but he's made his choice.

Duke will be fine. I hope for Jalen, he ends up fine, too.

His camp not doing him any favors is something I’ve been thinking a lot recently. They’re in their own bubble, and this is fare from a rare occurrence with these top level kids. we’ve had a number of these situations at Duke, as have many other top programs. It almost NEVER ends up working out for the kid. I truly hope he has someone positive guiding him at the next level. Best of luck to him.

 

[jeffrey236]

The Athletic has a thoughtful analysis of Jalen’s departure and his NBA draft prospects.

Jalen Johnson’s next steps: Questions exist as Duke career ends, NBA Draft prep begins
https://theathletic.com/2392181/202...t-scouting-report/?source=user_shared_article

 

[christophero]

Opposing fanbases probably having a field day with the whole Brotherhood thing.

 

[GAAP]

Opposing fanbases probably having a field day with the whole Brotherhood thing.

F' them. They hate us 'cause they ain't us.

 

[GAAP]

The Athletic has a thoughtful analysis of Jalen’s departure and his NBA draft prospects.

Jalen Johnson’s next steps: Questions exist as Duke career ends, NBA Draft prep begins
https://theathletic.com/2392181/202...t-scouting-report/?source=user_shared_article

Do you get a commission for new subscriptions?

 

[dukiejay]

Opposing fanbases probably having a field day with the whole Brotherhood thing.

More power to them. For how long have we had a field day with 'The Carolina Way' over the years?

 

[jwill133]

There would be a 20 page thread on RR if this happened to a UK player, with most of the comments calling the kid names and how big of a loser he is....

 

[jeffrey236]

Do you get a commission for new subscriptions?

LOL. Sorry, I thought the article itself could be shared with non-subscribers!

 

[GAAP]

LOL. Sorry, I thought the article itself could be shared with non-subscribers!

No worries. I was all excited to read it, but...

 

[BigRedLar]

Future Duke players gonna start opting out during Tournament time? It could happen.

 

[christophero]

Seeing as he's the first guy at Duke ever to do this I'm not too worried. We could see more guys go to the G league right out of high school, though not just at Duke.

 

[jamsession3]

Seeing as he's the first guy at Duke ever to do this I'm not too worried. We could see more guys go to the G league right out of high school, though not just at Duke.

The NCAA will be make adjustments and strides to be sure this does not become the 'norm'. These are not normal times, so I'm not that worried about the G League.

The G League will need to keep the 'insulted momentum' going to keep the so called Select Team relevant. Whenever Jarrett Jack is the starting pg, it's set up to not fail. Spread those so - called Elite players amongst the G League and let them feel the reality of 'minor league basketball'. They will come running to the Blue Blood Programs.

 

[skysdad]

Seeing as he's the first guy at Duke ever to do this I'm not too worried. We could see more guys go to the G league right out of high school, though not just at Duke.

I feel that too. Ok with me. As much as players like Zion have thrilled me I've had enough of these players. Let the NBA develope their own and the players who want to play the college game let them go three years just like MLB. Love the way MLB handles it. OFC

 

[KDSTONE]

I feel that too. Ok with me. As much as players like Zion have thrilled me I've had enough of these players. Let the NBA develope their own and the players who want to play the college game let them go three years just like MLB. Love the way MLB handles it. OFC

Well said It’s hard these days to say anything negative about these super talented oads without sounding Like the get off my lawn guy I just want the guys who treat college basketball like the nba minor leagues to do it far away from me College basketball was once a national treasure Now I just watch when I’m bored

 

[KDSTONE]

Wish Jalen nothing but the best. Most wanted him gone and now he’s gone. So, let’s move forward! Can’t blame him anymore if things don’t go right!

When your team is horrible and you’re considered the most talented player on that team you will get some criticism snowflake

 

[KDSTONE]

Which would only cement the notion that he quit. The story is he’s got to get healthy for his NBA career and everything is chill between him, Coach K and his teammates. That’s their story and they’re sticking to it. And it’s in both sides’ interests to keep it that way.

I’m grateful coach k always has the big picture in mind. Most of us would be more candid sure but burning every bridge along the way. Love you coach.

 

[christophero]

This is going to sound crazy but maybe don't go after top 20 guys. Go after top 100 guys. Or just one. Other programs do it, whether by choice or the fact that they have no chance with them. Syracuse seems to do it. I know they have had a few one and dones. You could argue that 3-4 years of a top 100 guy is better than one year of a top 20 guy who is going to leave after one year. I'm just throwing it out there for thought. Doesn't mean it will always work but there are teams that have success that way. I do think this year's class minus Johnson is a huge step in the right direction. Guys like Coleman and Brakefield. The one and done thing is really leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Let's not pretend that is the only way to go. Plus I think more and more top 10-20 recruits are going to choose the G league.

 

[WI#1Dukie22]

This is going to sound crazy but maybe don't go after top 20 guys. Go after top 100 guys. Or just one. Other programs do it, whether by choice or the fact that they have no chance with them. Syracuse seems to do it. I know they have had a few one and dones. You could argue that 3-4 years of a top 100 guy is better than one year of a top 20 guy who is going to leave after one year. I'm just throwing it out there for thought. Doesn't mean it will always work but there are teams that have success that way. I do think this year's class minus Johnson is a step in the right direction. Guys like Coleman and Brakefield. The one and done thing is really leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Let's not pretend that is the only way to go. Plus I think more and more top 10-20 recruits are going to choose the G league.

This is just ridiculously stupid on so many levels. Not taking time tonight to dive into this but you lost me at Duke maybe modeling the program like Syracuse. NOBODY has had more success then Duke since the predominant one and done era. I’m sure you’ve seen the Bilas run down from a few weeks back. It sums it all up. Winning consistently is hard- nobody does it better then Duke. K- Please change absolutely nothing!!! Winning more then everybody else, doing it the right way, all while providing some of the most talented and entertaining kids for us true fans to watch. Can’t say thanks enough for the winning and stars you’ve given me the opportunity to cheer for.

 

[christophero]

Our current freshman class has no top 20 guys now that Johnson is gone, so maybe it's not that ridiculous. I mean 20 -50 guys like Brakefield. Granted the Syracuse comp. was not the best.

 

[WI#1Dukie22]

Hey Paulo and AJ etc etc- we don’t want you anymore. I think we have a better chance at sustained excellence with completely less athletic, skilled and matured players. That’s what your saying. The one and done hate is complete non sense! I also hate the fact that kids who are not ready are Essentially forced to the league. That’s the biggest issue. It’s not the top 10, clear NBA talent guys that’s the issue. Every single college sports fan should be drooling at the fact we get those kids for a year. To me the issue is the top 10-25 players who are rushed into the league because that’s the road the NBA has paved. Not K and Duke. Drafting on potential and age has created this. And often times
In the last 6 years , 100% credit to K and the Duke system, kids have over achieved, thrived in the system and a 2-3 yr player becomes 1 and done. Personally if I have to pick between high level recruits over achieving and leaving, opposed to under achieving and staying longer then planned- I guess I’m damn proud kids who pick Duke end up having even more success then planned.

I just think you take this year and forget it- hell even witout Covid, if we have to have a year like this every 25 years I think will be ok. And I’m convinced without Covid this is a 25+ win team getting a 4 seed. Facts are the same camp unhappy with this year, would be just as unhappy with that result. This is new territory for most on here I’d guess. K has set the bar to a point only he can reach at times. We won a Champ in 2015. Few really bad bounced between now and then- certainly should have won 1 more since then agreed. Last years team was gonna make a run- zero doubt. Next year looks incredibly promising!!!! And don’t get me wrong- this team make the tourney look the F out!!!
What are we mad about?? Seriously!! Who do you wanna trade spots with?? Look down the road- terrible season last year, fringe tourney team this year.

GREAT TO BE A DUKE FAN

 

[timo0402]

Hey Paulo and AJ etc etc- we don’t want you anymore. I think we have a better chance at sustained excellence with completely less athletic, skilled and matured players. That’s what your saying. The one and done hate is complete non sense! I also hate the fact that kids who are not ready are Essentially forced to the league. That’s the biggest issue. It’s not the top 10, clear NBA talent guys that’s the issue. Every single college sports fan should be drooling at the fact we get those kids for a year. To me the issue is the top 10-25 players who are rushed into the league because that’s the road the NBA has paved. Not K and Duke. Drafting on potential and age has created this. And often times
In the last 6 years , 100% credit to K and the Duke system, kids have over achieved, thrived in the system and a 2-3 yr player becomes 1 and done. Personally if I have to pick between high level recruits over achieving and leaving, opposed to under achieving and staying longer then planned- I guess I’m damn proud kids who pick Duke end up having even more success then planned.

I just think you take this year and forget it- hell even witout Covid, if we have to have a year like this every 25 years I think will be ok. And I’m convinced without Covid this is a 25+ win team getting a 4 seed. Facts are the same camp unhappy with this year, would be just as unhappy with that result. This is new territory for most on here I’d guess. K has set the bar to a point only he can reach at times. We won a Champ in 2015. Few really bad bounced between now and then- certainly should have won 1 more since then agreed. Last years team was gonna make a run- zero doubt. Next year looks incredibly promising!!!! And don’t get me wrong- this team make the tourney look the F out!!!
What are we mad about?? Seriously!! Who do you wanna trade spots with?? Look down the road- terrible season last year, fringe tourney team this year.

GREAT TO BE A DUKE FAN

Preach. It gets exhausting having to explain this. The cherry picking of programs we should model ourselves after every time something doesn’t go perfect for us. Believe it or not there’s more than one way to skin a cat, but every single other program would absolutely trade places with us if they could. Every single one. We get such tunnel vision as fans sometimes that we just assume everyone else is doing it so much better- UVA, Gonzaga, Nova, Cuse? I mean just relax. Bennet, Few, Even Wright who has a couple titles, would change places with Duke’s last decade if given the chance. No need to step on someone else to elevate another, and that goes for us too. No need to step on us to try and make them look better. We’ve all got our own issues, but i will take a covid riddled season as our one bad one in 25+ years.

 

[lyonhawk]

Im curious to see what NIL rules come out in the next few years and how that affects CBB. Guys like Zion and Bagley would stand to make a lot more money at Duke than in the g league. Zion may have even come back for his second year if he already had his shoe deal.

Everyone keeps referencing the MLB rule, but I don’t think anyone wants basketball to go the way of college baseball.

 

[timo0402]

Everyone keeps referencing the MLB rule, but I don’t think anyone wants basketball to go the way of college baseball.

Yeah, it’s not a good analogy in any way. It’s complete apples and oranges. Just get rid of the mandatory one year rule in the next CBA and call it a day. Kids should be able to go whenever they want. I’d like to see some sort of leeway given to players who don’t get drafted though. Like if you go and don’t get drafted, you can come back. Perhaps it’s a rule you can only do that once. Otherwise it would be a shitstorm, but thinking outside the box here, they should be able to do something without fear of having nowhere to go. There could also be some sort of grading scale, where a group of GMs/scouts grade the players and submit each players draftable score. If you’re not above a certain level, maybe you cannot declare. Obviously you’re free to leave to go and pursue other avenues- G league, Europe, whatever, but that could be an idea also.