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Is Zion Williamson the most dominant player in NCAA History?

AxeS24

AxeS24

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Jul 23, 2018
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Conference stats through 7 games:

31.4 minutes per game
25 points per game
8.7 rebounds per game
2.3 assists per game
1.9 steals per game
1.7 blocks per game

2-point FG: 62/79- 78.4%
3-point FG: 7/19- 36.8%
FT: 30/47- 63.8%

And he does this against everyone. Virginia, Syracuse, Texas Tech.

Those numbers aren't going down.

I couldn't find anyone close to these stats.

Not even Lew Alcindor at UCLA.
 
Not sure I'd take Zion over Lew Alcindor. He averaged 26.4 ppg, 15.5 reb, and shot 64% over the course of his 3-year career. Not to mention he won 3 national titles.

But, I will say Zion is ridiculously efficient. sports-reference.com has been tracking Player Efficiency Ratings since 2010. In that time span, the highest PER was in the 2016 season by John Brown of High Point, who had a PER of 36.93. Zion currently has a Player Efficiency Rating of 41.4. Wish he could get a few more shots a game. He's easily the most efficient player this decade, and probably this century. At this point, I would be shocked if he doesn't win National Player of the Year.
 
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PixelDevil said:
Not arguing against it, but it’s a giant claim to make.
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I mean, I can't think of anyone better.

Since 1992/1993, the highest 2-pt FG% on 200 attempts for a career is 74.4% by Azubuike.

Zion is 74.8% on the season at 202 attempts already. And he does a lot more things than Azubuike of course.
 
dukedevilz said:
Not sure I'd take Zion over Lew Alcindor. He averaged 26.4 ppg, 15.5 reb, and shot 64% over the course of his 3-year career. Not to mention he won 3 national titles.

But, I will say Zion is ridiculously efficient. sports-reference.com has been tracking Player Efficiency Ratings since 2010. In that time span, the highest PER was in the 2016 season by John Brown of High Point, who had a PER of 36.93. Zion currently has a Player Efficiency Rating of 41.4. Wish he could get a few more shots a game. He's easily the most efficient player this decade, and probably this century. At this point, I would be shocked if he doesn't win National Player of the Year.
Click to expand...

Big difference in 64% and 78%, though. If Zion keeps up this conference rate (no reason to think he can't) . . .

And I think Zion will go 1/1 in national titles. Who's stopping him in crunch time?
 
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AxeS24 said:
Big difference in 64% and 78%, though. If Zion keeps up this conference rate (no reason to think he can't) . . .

And I think Zion will go 1/1 in national titles. Who's stopping him in crunch time?
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I don't know what Alcindor's conference numbers were, but 64% was his field-goal percentage for his career. The 78% that you point out is for 7 games. Zion is 67.4% on the season, however. I'm more inclined to take a 3-year career over 7 games.
 
dukedevilz said:
I don't know what Alcindor's conference numbers were, but 64% was his field-goal percentage for his career. The 78% that you point out is for 7 games. Zion is 67.4% on the season, however. I'm more inclined to take a 3-year career over 7 games.
Click to expand...

Right, but they didn't have three pointers back then.

Zion's 3 pointers bring down his FG%.
 
AxeS24 said:
Conference stats through 7 games:

31.4 minutes per game
25 points per game
8.7 rebounds per game
2.3 assists per game
1.9 steals per game
1.7 blocks per game

2-point FG: 62/79- 78.4%
3-point FG: 7/19- 36.8%
FT: 30/47- 63.8%

And he does this against everyone. Virginia, Syracuse, Texas Tech.

Those numbers aren't going down.

I couldn't find anyone close to these stats.

Not even Lew Alcindor at UCLA.
Click to expand...
Most dominant? Probably not, he doesn't shoot enough and doesn't play enough minutes overall to be the single most dominant. Now if you're talking about how good he is, regardless of the other factors, probably. His combination of size, athleticism, all around offensive game, defensive prowess...yeah, overall I'd say he is. If Zion went to Clemson, he'd be averaging 30-35 points, along with about 15 boards a game and everyone would be asking this question.
 
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dukedevilz said:
I don't know what Alcindor's conference numbers were, but 64% was his field-goal percentage for his career. The 78% that you point out is for 7 games. Zion is 67.4% on the season, however. I'm more inclined to take a 3-year career over 7 games.
Click to expand...
One thing about Alcindor's numbers though, he was playing at UCLA during the '60s, he didn't face even half as good of teams as Zion is going against. Hell most teams didn't have guys over 6'6" .
 
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AxeS24 said:
Conference stats through 7 games:

31.4 minutes per game
25 points per game
8.7 rebounds per game
2.3 assists per game
1.9 steals per game
1.7 blocks per game

2-point FG: 62/79- 78.4%
3-point FG: 7/19- 36.8%
FT: 30/47- 63.8%

And he does this against everyone. Virginia, Syracuse, Texas Tech.

Those numbers aren't going down.

I couldn't find anyone close to these stats.

Not even Lew Alcindor at UCLA.
Click to expand...
Don't do the stats like you do, Axe, but just by the "eyeball test" the most dominant players I've seen were Alcindor, Walton, and Oscar. How do they stack up?
OFC
 
Shatterthesky22 said:
One thing about Alcindor's numbers though, he was playing at UCLA during the '60s, he didn't face even half as good of teams as Zion is going against. Hell most teams didn't have guys over 6'6" .
Click to expand...

If Alcindor is one of the greatest players of all-time - and he's playing against weaker competition, seems logical to me that would actually make him more dominate. I love Zion and I love having him here, but Alcindor is the greatest college player of all time. Also, I would note that Wilt Chamberlain was the only NBA player (in 1967) between 1967 and 1969 that shot above 60% from the floor. That was an era where basketball didn't over emphasize high percentage shots (ie Bill Russell is a career 44% shooter from the field). So for someone to shoot 64% from the floor (which is well, well above the average in that time period), average 26+ points, 15+ rebounds, win National Player of the Year twice and win 3 national titles (4 titles had freshmen been eligible), I just don't see how anyone will ever top that.
 
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I'm curious to see if the Anthony Davis or Zion Williamson discussion gets heated... UK fans will LOSE THEIR MINDS.

Or lose what's left of their minds. Whatever.
 
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Couple other names to toss out there.

Pistol Pete averaged 44 ppg for his college career and was magic with the basketball.

Larry Birds career numbers 30 ppg 13 reb 5 ast
 
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I love Zion and he's is just special but he's played less than the 20 games and there have been so many dominate players including Alcindor whom I did see play. He did about what he wanted to do. They even changed a rule because he was so dominating. That rule of course was they took away the dunk. Please don't getbme wrong about my feelings toward Zion. No player so far has been able to handle him. Yes heel fans I do realize that he hasn't had to deal with big luke maye . Zion will just have to deal with him at least twice and what happens happens. Lew Alcindor despite the no dunK rule still dominated the college game. If the no dunking rule was in place today would Zion be as dominating as he is? I don't want to get into a back and forth debate about it Just trying to look at it fairly. Alcindor had some really good competition despite tat he did play in what some fans feel as an era that may be considered as ancient basketball where fundementals, defense and great free throw shooting where considered anot important part of the game. Yes I'm an old fart who is living in the past.. OFC
 
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skysdad said:
I love Zion and he's is just special but he's played less than the 20 games and there have been so many dominate players including Alcindor whom I did see play. He did about what he wanted to do. They even changed a rule because he was so dominating. That rule of course was they took away the dunk. Please don't getbme wrong about my feelings toward Zion. No player so far has been able to handle him. Yes heel fans I do realize that he hasn't had to deal with big luke maye . Zion will just have to deal with him at least twice and what happens happens. Lew Alcindor despite the no dunK rule still dominated the college game. If the no dunking rule was in place today would Zion be as dominating as he is? I don't want to get into a back and forth debate about it Just trying to look at it fairly. Alcindor had some really good competition despite tat he did play in what some fans feel as an era that may be considered as ancient basketball where fundementals, defense and great free throw shooting where considered anot important part of the game. Yes I'm an old fart who is living in the past.. OFC
Click to expand...

No one is as dominate as Big Luke Maye, that list includes Zion and Alcindor.
 
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dukedevilz said:
If Alcindor is one of the greatest players of all-time - and he's playing against weaker competition, seems logical to me that would actually make him more dominate. I love Zion and I love having him here, but Alcindor is the greatest college player of all time. Also, I would note that Wilt Chamberlain was the only NBA player (in 1967) between 1967 and 1969 that shot above 60% from the floor. That was an era where basketball didn't over emphasize high percentage shots (ie Bill Russell is a career 44% shooter from the field). So for someone to shoot 64% from the floor (which is well, well above the average in that time period), average 26+ points, 15+ rebounds, win National Player of the Year twice and win 3 national titles (4 titles had freshmen been eligible), I just don't see how anyone will ever top that.
Click to expand...
I said in my other post Zion isn't necessarily the most dominant, I'm talking about who is more skilled and just a better overall player. If it's just who was the most dominant, I gotta give it to Pistol Pete. But if we're talking about who had/has the most overall tools I gotta give it to Zion. Just my opinion though, as I never even saw Kareem play in the NBA lol
 
Shatterthesky22 said:
I said in my other post Zion isn't necessarily the most dominant, I'm talking about who is more skilled and just a better overall player. If it's just who was the most dominant, I gotta give it to Pistol Pete. But if we're talking about who had/has the most overall tools I gotta give it to Zion. Just my opinion though, as I never even saw Kareem play in the NBA lol
Click to expand...

Maravich shot below 44% in his career and he never played in the NCAA Tournament. I will concede that he didn't have the best teammates, but David Robinson (Navy) and Steph Curry (Davidson) were superstars on midmajors that led their respective schools to the Elite 8. In comparison, I'd say they probably had, just guessing, less overall talent than LSU (if you compare how LSU stacked up against other teams in the late 60's anyway). I'd still say Alcindor is the most dominant college player. I think you could make arguments with Wilt, David Robinson, Larry Bird, Oscar, and maybe a few others.
 
At Kansas, Wilt Chamberlain was the freakiest of freak athletes. He was Randy Moss but at 7'2" not 6'5".



One year in the NBA he averaged 50 points and 2o rebounds per game. Not he once scored 50 and grabbed 20. He averaged 50 and 20...
 
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For now, let’s say one of the most efficient. IMO, domination also implies wins and postseason success. For instance, Shaq was a “dominant” talent in college, but his team could never make much noise in the postseason (not even a sweet 16 appearance). Staying with LSU, Maravich is probably one of the most ball dominant players of all time and his teams weren’t great either.

You mentioned it, efficient domination is where it’s at, and Alcindor is the first person to come to mind. Physically, psychologically, etc. he was the most dominant we’ve seen in college.

Let’s say Duke finishes as the champion. I don’t think it’s wrong to consider Zion in that vein as a top 5 all time type of player despite playing only one year. Can you imagine him playing for 3 or 4 seasons? His stats would be ludicrous.
 
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skysdad said:
I love Zion and he's is just special but he's played less than the 20 games and there have been so many dominate players including Alcindor whom I did see play. He did about what he wanted to do. They even changed a rule because he was so dominating. That rule of course was they took away the dunk. Please don't getbme wrong about my feelings toward Zion. No player so far has been able to handle him. Yes heel fans I do realize that he hasn't had to deal with big luke maye . Zion will just have to deal with him at least twice and what happens happens. Lew Alcindor despite the no dunK rule still dominated the college game. If the no dunking rule was in place today would Zion be as dominating as he is? I don't want to get into a back and forth debate about it Just trying to look at it fairly. Alcindor had some really good competition despite tat he did play in what some fans feel as an era that may be considered as ancient basketball where fundementals, defense and great free throw shooting where considered anot important part of the game. Yes I'm an old fart who is living in the past.. OFC
Click to expand...
Good post. Love Zion. Think he is in the single name category — Shaq, Kobe, Magic, Michael. Too early? Sure, but I’m choosing to believe rather hoping not to believe.
 
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1156jack said:
At Kansas, Wilt Chamberlain was the freakiest of freak athletes. He was Randy Moss but at 7'2" not 6'5".

View embedded media


One year in the NBA he averaged 50 points and 2o rebounds per game. Not he once scored 50 and grabbed 20. He averaged 50 and 20...
Click to expand...


Just watched part of it but saw enough to watch the rest later. I'm glad there are films like this and others that we can actually see how good some of these players were. The thing a bought Wilt is if you didn't see him play regularly you would think all he did was dunk and rebound because he was so much bigger and stronger which is true but I saw him making nice passes, blo.cking shots to team mates, shooting free-throw pretty well and knocking down some jump shots. Glad you found this 1156Jack. It is really debatable as how who is the most dominate player ever. Do àny of you think Wilt could not do this in todays game considering he would be of the age of today's players ? Do you think Shaq could have handled him? Would Shaq use that patented move of his where he would take that size 65 butt of his , it into Wilt's mid section and just dribble and back him all the way to the basket ? Dont think so . Personally I think Shaq is the most over rated player ever. But thats just me .OFC
 
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1156jack said:
At Kansas, Wilt Chamberlain was the freakiest of freak athletes. He was Randy Moss but at 7'2" not 6'5".

View embedded media


One year in the NBA he averaged 50 points and 2o rebounds per game. Not he once scored 50 and grabbed 20. He averaged 50 and 20...
Click to expand...


Wilt imo is the most dominant player of all the time . he was just a different type of athelet . some say he had a 44 to 46 inch vertical leap at 7 2. Which is hard to believe but if you watch any of his highlights (which are hard to come by because of the pre t.v. era and yet there are still a good handful of him out there) his ability to rise above everyone was unmatched.

Zion is a beast and a freak athelet like wilt, the dominant stats are what they are. But you just can't match 7 2.
 
He has a long way to go to even be the most dominant Duke freshman. Got some short memories on this board. Take a look back at Bagleys numbers and accomplishments last year. He did things that's never been done at Duke and broke some ACC records.
 
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