ESPN's Top 10 players in NBA history

[Jtre]

All fair points. And I completely agree about Dwight Howard, guy was the best center in the league for 5 years, the media just hates him.

Another stat I enjoy.
In Lebron's 9 NBA finals, he played against 30 future hall of famers...3.33 per opponent.
In Jordan's 6 NBA finals, he played against 9 future hall of famers....1.5 per opponent.

Lebron has had some great players around him no doubt: Wade, Bosh, and Kyrie most notably.
None of those guys were as good as Pippen.

I don't know if the HoF stat is a fair one to use without diving deep into it. For instance, was Jason Kidd in 2011 or Tony Parker really a better point guard than Kevin Johnson in 1993? When LeBron beat the Thunder and Spurs, Kawhi, Russ and Harden were nowhere near who they would become. I'm not sure if Draymond Green was among the 30 hall of famers but is he better than Shawn Kemp?

Beyond that, many Hall of Famers did MJ beat on the way to the Finals?

As we do this, I want to be clear that I'm keeping this positive about both guys. I hate the current trend where people try to tear one of them down in an effort to say one guy is the second best in history to ever do his job.

 

[christophero]

That is true I love both players. But Jordan had a unique ability to rise to the occasion in the playoffs, more than anyone this side of Russell.

 

[skysdad]

In 15 to 20 years from now who or how many are off the list ? OFC

 

[Fourteen44]

As I said I don't argue about it because it's just an opinion and no way to say who is better...but yes I do think LeBron is #1...but just my opinion

Gotcha - I wasn’t sure I read you right. Agree on it being opinion, but if I’m picking a guy that I won’t question his drive, and is a stone cold winner, it’s MJ, Kobe, and then LeESPN.

 

[VaBlueDevil33]

Gotcha - I wasn’t sure I read you right. Agree on it being opinion, but if I’m picking a guy that I won’t question his drive, and is a stone cold winner, it’s MJ, Kobe, and then LeESPN.

And your opinion...and I can see you're a LeBron hater by your last word...that's fine..people gonna hate...it happens

 

[Mr.Scary13]

Its Jordan and then everyone else.... on another note, Lebron is nothing more than a poor mans Oscar Robertson.

 

[bleediteveryday30]

LeBron's losing precious time to win another ring. Not a Lakers fan, but what a story that would be if he could've brought another championship back to LA this season. I still think he's outside the top 5 until he wins another ring. I also think it's Jordan, Kobe, Magic, and then the rest. Magic doesn't get enough love in my opinion.

 

[christophero]

Magic was amazing. Those Laker Celtics battles in the 80's were legendary. Such talented teams.

 

[bleediteveryday30]

Magic is hands down the greatest point guard that has played the game. What he could do on the floor was, for lack of a better word, magical. And those battles are the stuff of legend for sure. Bird V Magic is still one of the great match ups in all of sports lore, imo.

 

[Jtre]

Its Jordan and then everyone else.... on another note, Lebron is nothing more than a poor mans Oscar Robertson.

There is literally nothing objective to support this statement. If anything, LeBron is a hyper-athletic version of Magic or even Bird without the red-eye jumpshot.

 

[Jtre]

Gotcha - I wasn’t sure I read you right. Agree on it being opinion, but if I’m picking a guy that I won’t question his drive, and is a stone cold winner, it’s MJ, Kobe, and then LeESPN.

As good as LeBron is and as good as he has been for 17 years, why would you question his drive? I could see if you were talking about Shaq, who would be the all-time leading scorer and rebounder if he had ever improved his free throw shooting and if he had focused more on conditioning, but what about LeBron shows a lack of drive?

 

[fladuke65]

One thing that needs to be considered when talking MJ v LeBron is the era's they played in. Let's be honest, MJ got the crap beat out of him routinely, and still found a way to not only win, but to dominate. Now in the NBA (Post-2010) you really aren't allowed to touch another guy without being called for a foul. While it might lead to a better product and more safety for the players, LeBron has been able to thrive in a league where he basically gets every call he wants and no one is allowed to apply the pressure needed to stop him. Imagine what MJ wouldve done in a league where hand checking is illegal, and hard fouls in the paint are flagrant? I think his numbers would've been even more insane.

True about the physicality during Jordan's era but due to the zone D being illegal back in Jordan's era also, teams regularly put other 4 players on opposite side of the court which cleared a 1-1 isolation for Jordan who just could not be stopped 1 on 1. Had a zone D been allowed as under current rules, Jordan would not have been able to go 1 vs 3 or 4. Jordan worked perfectly in his era and Lebron works perfectly in this era of zone D where shooting and passing are elevated for all players on the court- hence big men who cant shoot or pass are not valued!

 

[christophero]

I don't think placing LeBron third all time is questioning his drive. But Jordan's drive was legendary. I saw those games; it wasn't media driven.

 

[df64]

Jordan's drive was downright pathological. Lot of good and a lot of bad in that.

Lebron is certsinly built for the physicality of the 90's. Doesnt mean he wouldn't have suffered multiple injuries.

Hard to argue with the greatness of a PG taking over at center and winning in the finals like Magic did when Karreem got hurt. Was his rookie year, wasn't it?

 

[christophero]

Yes. Magic scored over 40, guarded the Celtic's center part of the time, and I believe made a Kareem hook shot that game. It was insane.

 

[jwill133]

If Grant Hill stays healthy his whole career, does he make the list??? I know he was for a bit proclaimed as the "Next MJ", but I think that was partially also due to how weak the mid 90's NBA was.
Depending on if his teams won the title and how many, I could see Grant sliding anywhere from like 8th to 25th overall had his career played out differently.

Who knows, if Zion stays healthy and has a long career, maybe he's on the list someday.

 

[Jtre]

If Grant Hill stays healthy his whole career, does he make the list??? I know he was for a bit proclaimed as the "Next MJ", but I think that was partially also due to how weak the mid 90's NBA was.
Depending on if his teams won the title and how many, I could see Grant sliding anywhere from like 8th to 25th overall had his career played out differently.

Who knows, if Zion stays healthy and has a long career, maybe he's on the list someday.

A healthy Grant Hill is definitely top 25, due to his own ability and the fact that Orlando would have won a title with him.

Grant is the reason I take issue with Anthony Davis, Giannis, Lillard and even Kawhi, to a degree, being ranked or as highly ranked as they are. If all those dudes careers are derailed by injury tomorrow none of them other than Kawhi has anything close to a legacy that warrants their rankings. Even Kawhi, who is great on both sides of the ball, benefited greatly from right place, right time. He won a title with the Spurs when they were still the Spurs and won a title with Toronto when they lose if GS has just one of KD or Klay Thompson.

 

[Mr.Scary13]

There is literally nothing objective to support this statement. If anything, LeBron is a hyper-athletic version of Magic or even Bird without the red-eye jumpshot.

Sure there is. He is a modern day Big O. It just happens the Big O was a better player.

 

[VaBlueDevil33]

Sure there is. He is a modern day Big O. It just happens the Big O was a better player.

LOL

 

[Jtre]

Sure there is. He is a modern day Big O. It just happens the Big O was a better player.

Sure that's objective. How about this:

Oscar was a 6-5 point guard whereas LeBron is a 6-8 260 pound athlete who can play the 1-4 on both ends of the court.

LeBron catches hell from some people for only winning by joining other players and for multiple Finals losses, but O never won anything until he joined up with Kareem in Milwaukee.

LeBron came into the league as a kid and has career averages of 27, 7.5 and 7.5.

Oscar came into the league as a grown man and managed career averages of 25.7, 9.5 (apg) and 7.4.

17 years after being drafted, Lebron is averaging 25.7, 7.9 boards and a league leading 10.6 apg.

17 years after being drafted, O had been retired for 3 years.

Defensively, LeBron ranks 18th all-time indefensive win shares. Oscar ranks 132nd.

Finally, LeBron has won 3 titles when he was undoubtedly the guy. Oscar won when he was among for the ride.

I'll wait to hear your objective reply.

 

[christophero]

It's not a knock on LeBron to say Jordan was better. Jordan was better than everyone imo.

 

[Jtre]

It's not a knock on LeBron to say Jordan was better. Jordan was better than everyone imo.

I agree. Saying someone is the second best player ever is in no way a slight.

I saw people mention earlier about Magic being undervalued. Almost any all-time list has him in the top 5 or 6. I'm not sure how that is undervaluing him.

As far as LeBron goes, I have him 2 but a case can easily be made for Kareem at 2 and him at 3.

 

[Fourteen44]

And your opinion...and I can see you're a LeBron hater by your last word...that's fine..people gonna hate...it happens

Hater? If I hated why would he be top 3? I stated an obvious fact: espn is infatuated with LeBron.

As usual you revert to idiotic statements, just like “x player is terrible” and “mcclung isn’t a d1 player.” Lol

 

[Fourteen44]

As good as LeBron is and as good as he has been for 17 years, why would you question his drive? I could see if you were talking about Shaq, who would be the all-time leading scorer and rebounder if he had ever improved his free throw shooting and if he had focused more on conditioning, but what about LeBron shows a lack of drive?

LeBron has disappeared in clutch games. Jordan rarely if ever did. Besides is taking Jordan having a borderline psychotic drive really “questioning” LeBrons? Lol

 

[Jtre]

LeBron has disappeared in clutch games. Jordan rarely if ever did. Besides is taking Jordan having a borderline psychotic drive really “questioning” LeBrons? Lol

I took it as you would never question Jordan's or Kobe's but you would "Lespn."

My bad if that's not what you meant.

 

[Fourteen44]

I took it as you would never question Jordan's or Kobe's but you would "Lespn."

My bad if that's not what you meant.

No worries I could have phrased it better. LeBron is a baller, just IMO not a MJ or Kobe.....

 

[VaBlueDevil33]

Hater? If I hated why would he be top 3? I stated an obvious fact: espn is infatuated with LeBron.

As usual you revert to idiotic statements, just like “x player is terrible” and “mcclung isn’t a d1 player.” Lol

And as usual you act like a tool...tried to talk about it but as usual you have a smart ass comment and act like your opinion is always right...good bye hater

Oh yeah please show me where I said that about McClung? The VT coach said it...but show where I said it myself...I'll wait

 

[Fourteen44]

And as usual you act like a tool...tried to talk about it but as usual you have a smart ass comment and act like your opinion is always right...good bye hater

Oh yeah please show me where I said that about McClung? The VT coach said it...but show where I said it myself...I'll wait

You tried to talk while calling me a hater? Interesting. You incorrectly took a weak shot, I called you out. All good. Yes, you’ve said numerous Duke players suck. Yes, you said MM wasn’t a d1 player. Again, all good. You can’t even have a civil convo; I hope your meds start working my man. Have a good offseason, I look forward to seeing you in the next game where Duke starts losing or playing poorly. My bet is you get on Moore first.

 

[VaBlueDevil33]

You tried to talk while calling me a hater? Interesting. You incorrectly took a weak shot, I called you out. All good. Yes, you’ve said numerous Duke players suck. Yes, you said MM wasn’t a d1 player. Again, all good. You can’t even have a civil convo; I hope your meds start working my man. Have a good offseason, I look forward to seeing you in the next game where Duke starts losing or playing poorly. My bet is you get on Moore first.

Again show me where I said it and not the VT coach I referenced...I'll wait

And I'm betting you never find it but will come up with something lame as usual...like so and so said I said it and they are your buddy so you trust them...something lame like that...

Go find it pal

 

[Fourteen44]

Again show me where I said it and not the VT coach I referenced...I'll wait

And I'm betting you never find it but will come up with something lame as usual...like so and so said I said it and they are your buddy so you trust them...something lame like that...

Go find it pal

Dude, let it go. You’re the resident Duke attacker and player attacker. You’ve been exposed repeatedly. Forget trying to have a normal convo as you’re mentally unstable. Good luck with that!

 

[VaBlueDevil33]

You tried to talk while calling me a hater? Interesting. You incorrectly took a weak shot, I called you out. All good. Yes, you’ve said numerous Duke players suck. Yes, you said MM wasn’t a d1 player. Again, all good. You can’t even have a civil convo; I hope your meds start working my man. Have a good offseason, I look forward to seeing you in the next game where Duke starts losing or playing poorly. My bet is you get on Moore first.

Worry about yourself....not me

Sorry I can't be like you and never think anything is wrong..and K can snap his fingers and it's fixed...yeah that's you

 

[VaBlueDevil33]

Dude, let it go. You’re the resident Duke attacker and player attacker. You’ve been exposed repeatedly. Forget trying to have a normal convo as you’re mentally unstable. Good luck with that!

Just as I thought ZERO proof....just lame garbage as usual...you make me laugh at least

 

[Fourteen44]

Just as I thought ZERO proof....just lame garbage as usual...you make me laugh at least

No proof that x sucks either huh? Hahaaaaa.

 

[VaBlueDevil33]

No proof that x sucks either huh? Hahaaaaa.

McClung proof

Hell I admit to other...most here do...I'm sorry you are special and never criticise..you are perfect

 

[Fourteen44]

McClung proof

Hell I admit to other...most here do...I'm sorry you are special and never criticise..you are perfect

Ahhh, deflection to others. Nicely done. You’re the leader. And McClung; I bet he’s transferring to a d2, school, “eh”?

 

[Jtre]

Well this was a cool discussion for a little while, at least.

 

[VaBlueDevil33]

Ahhh, deflection to others. Nicely done. You’re the leader. And McClung; I bet he’s transferring to a d2, school, “eh”?

Damn dude what you want and admitted it...geez you're a loser

Now go find McClung proof....I'll wait

I'm sure another lame ass comment is coming from you

 

[Fourteen44]

Well this was a cool discussion for a little while, at least.

Sorry man, VA is resident negative Nelly. Have a good night!

 

[VaBlueDevil33]

Still no proof(just as I thought)....good bye

 

[Fourteen44]

Still no proof(just as I thought)....good bye

Yawn.