bullcity gamer said:

Dahnthay, a perfect example of racism still existing is an incident which occurred 11 months ago in Sangamon County, IL

A Sangamon County Caucasian Deputy Sheriff shot and killed an African American frail woman all because she said “I rebuke you in the name of Jesus”

Yes, I would say that greatly impacted the African American Woman’s and her loved ones lives

The Victim’s Name is Sonya Massey. You can find the footage of the murder on YouTube.

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“A perfect example of racism”?
It’s a tragedy, mother of two, gunned down in her home.
The prosecution may be keeping its cards close to the vest and waiting for trial, but I haven’t read any evidence of racism so far.
If the cop were Black and the victim white, could this have still happened?
If it had happened, would we have heard about it? My answers to those questions are yes and no.
We may learn more about the cop at trial but the media as usual has jumped the gun and made it virtually impossible for another defendant to get a fair trial.

Mac9192 said:

Racism will always be a part of our country. Wish it wasn't, but that's just a sad fact. The media and race hustlers are about as bad as the actual people that commit the crimes though. But the media isn't interested in the truth, and in some cases, there was no crime. They are in search of the white on black crime, because that's where the money is made.

Have blacks been treated real poorly in the past? Absolutely. No one can deny that. It can only help though if any potential racist incident is judged individually.

A stable home life helps too. The stats on that don't lie.

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There's no excuse for accepting the continuance of racism where it is identified.

Presuming you aren't referring to isolated incidents, how recently would you say Black people were collectively treated poorly in the past?

5 ACC teams in the Supers! So what if we suck at hoops and football!
OFC

KDSTONE said:

Kind of reminds me of those links you just posted, which you acted like was some sort of mic drop to end the debate.
At one point in the second link, the authors advocate for free college education for all Black students as part of “reparations” (unconstitutional much?)
and then at another claims 1 in 1000 Black men will be killed by police in the US ( bad with math much?)
There are roughly 20 million Black men in America. I’ll let y’all do the math on that one.

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Exactly!
For at least the 3rd time, a quick google search was all I was willing to invest in @Dahntay#1 . It definitely wasn't intended to be a mic drop.

Racism will always be a part of our country. Wish it wasn't, but that's just a sad fact. The media and race hustlers are about as bad as the actual people that commit the crimes though. But the media isn't interested in the truth, and in some cases, there was no crime. They are in search of the white on black crime, because that's where the money is made.

Have blacks been treated real poorly in the past? Absolutely. No one can deny that. It can only help though if any potential racist incident is judged individually.

A stable home life helps too. The stats on that don't lie.

Dattier said:

You can't keep up? If I said that, you'd twist it into a claim that I was scared to engage, then claim you knew my mind better than I know it myself. Here's me not doing that, though.


You assume that there is something inherently meritorious about doing your own research, that that research is inherently high quality, and that it would result in unanimous agreement.

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Kind of reminds me of those links you just posted, which you acted like was some sort of mic drop to end the debate.
At one point in the second link, the authors advocate for free college education for all Black students as part of “reparations” (unconstitutional much?)
and then at another claims 1 in 1000 Black men will be killed by police in the US ( bad with math much?)
There are roughly 20 million Black men in America. I’ll let y’all do the math on that one.

smashmouth5 said:

Moving violations are still breaking the law

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Yes... AND if there's a higher police presence specifically for drugs, increased ticketing and fines for other reasons have an undo and unintended impact on the community.

smashmouth5 said:

Murray State hangs on. SEE YOU IN DURHAM!

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Wild game

Dahntay#1 said:

I can’t keep up with everyone here in The Lounge...

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You can't keep up? If I said that, you'd twist it into a claim that I was scared to engage, then claim you knew my mind better than I know it myself. Here's me not doing that, though.

Dahntay#1 said:

You literally won’t believe how much they have lied unless you take the time to do the research yourself. I’ll leave it at that.

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You assume that there is something inherently meritorious about doing your own research, that that research is inherently high quality, and that it would result in unanimous agreement.

Dahntay#1 said:

Let’s breakdown each one of these “racist” claims.

Yes, there were harsher penalties for crack because it was seen as more dangerous to communities. Just because a law or bill disproportionately affects a certain race, it in no way means it is any sort of “racism”. If that were the case, creating stricter laws on child porn would be systemically racist because it would disproportionately affect white men. It’s funny that the only laws that disproportionately affect black people are seen as “racism”.

What reason do you think there is more policing in high crime areas? Could it be because, I don’t know, maybe there is high crime in the area? Would you prefer they police low crime areas more than high crime areas?

Neighborhoods of all races were redlined. Even some white neighborhoods. Let me know if you want specific areas of non-black people that were also redlined.

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You're on record for denying racism exists at all. Do you actually understand how "systemic/institutional/structural racism" are defined? I mean, I know you don't believe Mighty Mouse is real, but you can still explain who he is. How about these particular types of racism?

There's disproportionate of the type that is unfortunate but understandable and disproportionate that reveals a problem with the scale. And they can even overlap. There are biological and socialization explanations for why white men have disproportionate representation in STEM fields, for example. If, however, in 2025, admissions into STEM-specific training programs hasn't shifted more toward the overall population after we have clearly identified the lack of opportunity for women and BIPOC, that's a problem.

You inadvertently identified an example yourself, which you'd be willing to do all the time if it were just examples tied in with the Democratic party: You claimed LBJ's social programs intended to benefit and help Black families resulted in the breakdown of the Black family. If accurate, that's an example of policy -- well-intended policy -- having an unintended negative impact on a specific race.

Policing high crime areas more heavily makes sense until it strays into areas outside the purview of the crime that drew them there. I've addressed this with the example of broken headlights, or open containers, or loitering, or any other insignificant crime that isn't the real reason for the heavier policing.

In the case of crime, stats show that people of all races use drugs at similar rates. BIPOC are arrested more often than white people, and given similar legal circumstances, receive more severe sentences.

The redlining of white neighborhoods overwhelmingly meant keeping other races out, to the perceived benefit of the white people living there. You don't have to prove that other races were redlined, or that some white people were excluded, as well. I accept that. I don't consider it relevant unless you can demonstrate comparable numbers. Rare exceptions and anecdotes don't sway the conversation.

Dahnthay, a perfect example of racism still existing is an incident which occurred 11 months ago in Sangamon County, IL

A Sangamon County Caucasian Deputy Sheriff shot and killed an African American frail woman all because she said “I rebuke you in the name of Jesus”

Yes, I would say that greatly impacted the African American Woman’s and her loved ones lives

The Victim’s Name is Sonya Massey. You can find the footage of the murder on YouTube.

Moving violations are still breaking the law and I had an officer tell me, you would be shocked at the number of people that commit violent crimes and get caught in a simple traffic stop.

I can’t keep up with everyone here in The Lounge. However, I know several of you understand how much the media lies about almost everything. Well understand that 1) this is not a new phenomenon and 2) the same logic applies to black history, slavery, the Civil Rights Movement, etc. Just about every mainstream narrative you have heard is either a lie or greatly exaggerated to divide the masses. You literally won’t believe how much they have lied unless you take the time to do the research yourself. I’ll leave it at that.

Dattier said:

The best examples of systemic/institutional racism are things from the recent past because — as I already said — it takes that long for people to accept it. A good example is the 1994 Crime Bill, championed by a President Clinton and then Senator Biden. It was hailed as great by Black leaders at the time, as well. What it did, though, was create stricter prison sentences for crack than it did for cocaine, meaning that despite similar usage rates across races, people using crack — overwhelmingly poor, overwhelmingly Black — were punished more severely. It led to mass incarceration affecting Bpack people disproportionately.
Policing in high crime areas also results in more tickets for broken taillights and expired tags, etc. So poor people have to pay a fine with money they were trying to save for car repairs, so then they get another ticket. It creates vicious cycles people struggle to escape.
We still live in largely segregated neighborhoods as a lasting effect of real estate redlining. That results in lower property tax which leads to worse school funding which leads to worse education which leads to not being able to get a better job which leads to not being able to afford a better neighborhood.

I’m not talking about the individual. I’m not talking about the message for kids today. I’m talking about historical cause and effect across huge swaths of society. When you notice negative trends, you identify obstacles and remove them. You don’t write it off as a culture problem when the problem was externally instigated.

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Let’s breakdown each one of these “racist” claims.

Yes, there were harsher penalties for crack because it was seen as more dangerous to communities. Just because a law or bill disproportionately affects a certain race, it in no way means it is any sort of “racism”. If that were the case, creating stricter laws on child porn would be systemically racist because it would disproportionately affect white men. It’s funny that the only laws that disproportionately affect black people are seen as “racism”.

What reason do you think there is more policing in high crime areas? Could it be because, I don’t know, maybe there is high crime in the area? Would you prefer they police low crime areas more than high crime areas?

Neighborhoods of all races were redlined. Even some white neighborhoods. Let me know if you want specific areas of non-black people that were also redlined.

KDSTONE said:

Black leaders hailed it at the time, because there was the perception that violence related to crack addiction was a plague on their community, so context is important. Once it was widely known that penalties for crack possession were severe, behavior should have been altered. How many people in your neighborhood have to be sent off before you say to yourself “Hey maybe I should stop smoking crack” or better yet not start in the first place. I’m not unsympathetic to the addiction component of all this, but personal responsibility plays a role as well. Powdered cocaine didn’t fuel the type of violence and desperation that crack did, iirc, which accounts for the disparities in sentencing.

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Yes, that was the context. I didn't mean to leave that out.
Crime happens in relation to poverty and desperation, not because penalites aren't severe enough. And we never should have been incarcerating addicts.
Again with the personal responsibility?

Dattier said:

I’m not talking about the individual. I’m not talking about the message for kids today. I’m talking about historical cause and effect across huge swaths of society. When you notice negative trends, you identify obstacles and remove them. You don’t write it off as a culture problem when the problem was externally instigated.

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And what about the peripheral legal issues so many people faced? Moving violations and the like? Addicts were just supposed to stop and people driving rundown cars were just supposed to get them all shipshape?

GhostOf301 said:

What would have happened to all of those victims of laws had they not willfully committed to a life of lawlessness?

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Dattier said:

I’m not talking about the individual. I’m not talking about the message for kids today. I’m talking about historical cause and effect across huge swaths of society. When you notice negative trends, you identify obstacles and remove them. You don’t write it off as a culture problem when the problem was externally instigated.

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So. There's no argument that black people were more inconvenienced by the crime bill. If the majority of the people negatively impacted by this bill were only in trouble due to this bill, that would be one thing. But, there's more than just a talking point at the surface. What would have happened to all of those victims of laws had they not willfully committed to a life of lawlessness?

Dattier said:

The best examples of systemic/institutional racism are things from the recent past because — as I already said — it takes that long for people to accept it. A good example is the 1994 Crime Bill, championed by a President Clinton and then Senator Biden. It was hailed as great by Black leaders at the time, as well. What it did, though, was create stricter prison sentences for crack than it did for cocaine, meaning that despite similar usage rates across races, people using crack — overwhelmingly poor, overwhelmingly Black — were punished more severely. It led to mass incarceration affecting Bpack people disproportionately.
Policing in high crime areas also results in more tickets for broken taillights and expired tags, etc. So poor people have to pay a fine with money they were trying to save for car repairs, so then they get another ticket. It creates vicious cycles people struggle to escape.
We still live in largely segregated neighborhoods as a lasting effect of real estate redlining. That results in lower property tax which leads to worse school funding which leads to worse education which leads to not being able to get a better job which leads to not being able to afford a better neighborhood.

I’m not talking about the individual. I’m not talking about the message for kids today. I’m talking about historical cause and effect across huge swaths of society. When you notice negative trends, you identify obstacles and remove them. You don’t write it off as a culture problem when the problem was externally instigated.

Click to expand...

Black leaders hailed it at the time, because there was the perception that violence related to crack addiction was a plague on their community, so context is important. Once it was widely known that penalties for crack possession were severe, behavior should have been altered. How many people in your neighborhood have to be sent off before you say to yourself “Hey maybe I should stop smoking crack” or better yet not start in the first place. I’m not unsympathetic to the addiction component of all this, but personal responsibility plays a role as well. Powdered cocaine didn’t fuel the type of violence and desperation that crack did, iirc, which accounts for the disparities in sentencing.

The best examples of systemic/institutional racism are things from the recent past because — as I already said — it takes that long for people to accept it. A good example is the 1994 Crime Bill, championed by a President Clinton and then Senator Biden. It was hailed as great by Black leaders at the time, as well. What it did, though, was create stricter prison sentences for crack than it did for cocaine, meaning that despite similar usage rates across races, people using crack — overwhelmingly poor, overwhelmingly Black — were punished more severely. It led to mass incarceration affecting Bpack people disproportionately.
Policing in high crime areas also results in more tickets for broken taillights and expired tags, etc. So poor people have to pay a fine with money they were trying to save for car repairs, so then they get another ticket. It creates vicious cycles people struggle to escape.
We still live in largely segregated neighborhoods as a lasting effect of real estate redlining. That results in lower property tax which leads to worse school funding which leads to worse education which leads to not being able to get a better job which leads to not being able to afford a better neighborhood.

I’m not talking about the individual. I’m not talking about the message for kids today. I’m talking about historical cause and effect across huge swaths of society. When you notice negative trends, you identify obstacles and remove them. You don’t write it off as a culture problem when the problem was externally instigated.

Dattier said:

Yaaaaaawn. I used that clip in a class I used to teach for years. I fully embrace what he says about it. What you don't understand is that you think everyone is as absolutist and simple as you are. I never have been. I reflect on what Malcolm X says about white liberals and am constantly checking myself in order to do better. You already think you know everything. It's obvious in the lack of reflection, the lack of a pause when you charge straight into everything fully confident that you're right and there's no other way to be right.

You keep claiming I'm emotional without any evidence after I've already provided evidence of how I am not. (The last paragraph is yet another example.)

Your experience? Hahaha! You think racism doesn't exist and the Civil Rights Movement was a bad thing. I think you're in way over your head here. Here you go for examples. And here. Now dismiss every bit of it and wonder why I didn't put any more effort into your bad faith inquiries than a basic google search.

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Houston, we have a problem with your links. Take the first example. Racism against middle school and high school students and the school to prison pipeline. It suggests that the presence of police officers is the cause of high crime rates not the response to it. These officers were likely allocated to these schools based on the crime rates that already existed prior to their arrival.

Another example: the racial wealth gap disparity. Median net worths of Blacks and Hispanics is lower so this is an example of systemic racism. How? It just is. Wut. Asians do better than whites on average. Does this mean that whites must be discriminated against? Of course not. Past racism against Blacks in lending, red lining, etc can account for some of the discrepancy as well as the breakdown of the family we discussed recently but there are other factors as well.

With Hispanics many came here with nothing From what I’ve observed the first gen here often works their a$$ off usually in blue collar work, then their children do well academically and many go to college but real wealth ( investments, property, inheritance) usually takes at least two generations to accumulate.

For most groups we may not do as well as our parents, but with Hispanics the reverse will most likely be true. Racism doesnt explain the current disparity. The fact that many recently arrived here is the more likely culprit. They were among the poorest people in less developed countries that came here. It takes a while.

Dahntay#1 said:

That’s definitely the lesson. Sadly, you just don’t realize that you’re pushing it.

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Definitely not the lesson. I do realize I’m not pushing it.

Dahntay#1 said:

That was such a weak laughable attempt at proving racism exists. Why did you not actually come with anything of substance? Because you have nothing of substance. Being a so called “educator” you should be embarrassed. What a joke.

You’re purposely being obtuse right now. What you’re basically saying would be the equivalent of telling someone “Yes I tell lies everyday and you have told one lie in your life so we are both liars!!” It would be absurd and not even comparable to compare someone who told one lie to a habitual liar. And that’s what you’re doing with the slurs. The fact that black people do it infinitely more than any other demographic is not a point, it’s the point!

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So… you’re actually denying that the perspective exists that co-opting slurs takes the sting away?

Murray State hangs on. SEE YOU IN DURHAM!

Dattier said:

You assume. Got it.

I provided links and explained why I’d only invest that much time: you’re asking in bad faith.

I acknowledge that the use of the mother of all racial slurs among some subsets of Black culture is the most prominent, if not the most prevalent. Some gay people use gay slurs among themselves. Some women embrace “slut,” “whore,” and the b-word. Some people among other ethnicities do it, too. And I gave you multiple examples already: “Deplorables,” “Misfits,” etc.

Again, are you denying the existence of the position that co-opting once hurtful slurs is a way of weakening them? Do you think I just made it up?

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That was such a weak laughable attempt at proving racism exists. Why did you not actually come with anything of substance? Because you have nothing of substance. Being a so called “educator” you should be embarrassed. What a joke.

You’re purposely being obtuse right now. What you’re basically saying would be the equivalent of telling someone “Yes I tell lies everyday and you have told one lie in your life so we are both liars!!” It would be absurd and not even comparable to compare someone who told one lie to a habitual liar. And that’s what you’re doing with the slurs. The fact that black people do it infinitely more than any other demographic is not a point, it’s the point!