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Semi & Duke

If this did happen Coach K definitely got the right mom-son connection. Majority of sons would've had to put their hands on him if he raised his voice at their mom. I would hope everybody on this board would've roughed him up.
I have more respect for my Mom than that. I don't consider her so helpless and weak I'd need to resort to assault somebody who raised their voice at her.
 
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I have more respect for my Mom than that. I don't consider her so helpless and weak I'd need to resort to assault somebody who raised their voice at her.

If anybody raise up to my momma and talk crazy, some furniture will definitely be moving. She doesn’t have to feel helpless or weak
 
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Jon Jackson, Duke's public relations director, already made a statement. That's all that will be coming from Duke.

Nolan Smith, Quin Cook, and others waited their turn even when they felt they should be playing ahead of someone else. Semi chose not to. He wasn't going to play ahead of Winslow and he didn't want to wait his turn. End of story.

Wrong. Smith averaged 14.7 minutes per game with 34 games played his freshman year and Cook 11.7 with 31 games played. Semi averaged 4.7 minutes in 17 games. There's a reason guys like cook and smith developed the way they did and guys like vrank and white don't. They gotta get some playing time.
 
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Wrong. Smith averaged 14.7 minutes per game with 34 games played his freshman year and Cook 11.7 with 31 games played. Semi averaged 4.7 minutes in 17 games. There's a reason guys like cook and smith developed the way they did and guys like vrank and white don't. They gotta get some playing time.
They were also both 5 star players with seemingly no one in front of them. Nolan has an embattled Greg Paulus junior year Who he overtook Soph year. Quinn had Tyler Thornton...and he couldn’t even beat him out. The comparison is not always apples to apples but it isn’t apples to oranges like you’re suggesting.
 
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They were also both 5 star players with seemingly no one in front of them. Nolan has an embattled Greg Paulus junior year Who he overtook Soph year. Quinn had Tyler Thornton...and he couldn’t even beat him out. The comparison is not always apples to apples but it isn’t apples to oranges like you’re suggesting.

Smith and Cook also pushed themselves by playing at top tier HS where they faced top tier opponents every single night.
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If Semi had done the same, he'd have been ready to compete in college. And based on his game, body, and athleticism, every top program in the USA would have thrown scholarships at him.
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He, and his family, have demonstrated a consistent behavior wrt avoiding competing at the highest levels. When he's out of the NBA in 5 years, that will be why. He's a guy that should have been a solid starter, and has the body to be a small ball big man in the modern NBA, but he won't mix it up. He wants to stand on the perimeter and shoot 3s. If he really works on his D, he could play around a decade.
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As I said earlier, I feel he's shown a persistent lack of competitiveness that will prevent this from happening.
 
Smith and Cook also pushed themselves by playing at top tier HS where they faced top tier opponents every single night.
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If Semi had done the same, he'd have been ready to compete in college. And based on his game, body, and athleticism, every top program in the USA would have thrown scholarships at him.
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He, and his family, have demonstrated a consistent behavior wrt avoiding competing at the highest levels. When he's out of the NBA in 5 years, that will be why. He's a guy that should have been a solid starter, and has the body to be a small ball big man in the modern NBA, but he won't mix it up. He wants to stand on the perimeter and shoot 3s. If he really works on his D, he could play around a decade.
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As I said earlier, I feel he's shown a persistent lack of competitiveness that will prevent this from happening.
I agree that they have shown a lack of competitiveness, starting with High School. Go back and watch Semi's highlights, it looks like all he played against was 12 year old skinny white guys. His competition made him look like Zion on steroids. He averaged 50 a game with no jumpshot, but it's hard to really attack a family for staying in Kansas. Were there other family concerns and Semi needed to stay in the area? Financial issues? Way too much at play to judge that decision, IMO.

I do believe though that Semi will have a long-standing NBA career. He fits the modern NBA because he can guard multiple positions. He can really guard anywhere from a 2-guard to a center. He will never be a dominant scorer, but if your not a superstar, the new NBA will always have room for a 3-and-D guy, and that is Semi.
 
I agree that they have shown a lack of competitiveness, starting with High School. Go back and watch Semi's highlights, it looks like all he played against was 12 year old skinny white guys. His competition made him look like Zion on steroids. He averaged 50 a game with no jumpshot, but it's hard to really attack a family for staying in Kansas. Were there other family concerns and Semi needed to stay in the area? Financial issues? Way too much at play to judge that decision, IMO.

I do believe though that Semi will have a long-standing NBA career. He fits the modern NBA because he can guard multiple positions. He can really guard anywhere from a 2-guard to a center. He will never be a dominant scorer, but if your not a superstar, the new NBA will always have room for a 3-and-D guy, and that is Semi.

There are a ton of boarding schools that offer scholarships. Oak Hill would have jumped all over him, and that coach would have turned Semi into a beast that would have excelled at Duke, on his way to All star contention in the NBA.
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Semi's family didn't want that.
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Over the course of Zion's recruitment, I was pretty open about my concerns regarding Zion's level of competition. But even that low level was probably far above Semi's. And Zion's HS team at least ventured out to play national level teams. Semi's didn't.
 
We're walking around with blinders on if we think it's all on the kids every time it doesn't work out. Some instances are probably on the kid or their family. But it's hard for me to think a man that has coached as long as K has, hasn't been at a little fault a time or two due to his personality and stubbornness. Coaching is all about relationships, if you're any good at it, and sometimes you just won't get along as well as you will with another kid.
Team chemistry isn't just on the players. Sometimes a player/coach isn't there.
 
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We're walking around with blinders on if we think it's all on the kids every time it doesn't work out. Some instances are probably on the kid or their family. But it's hard for me to think a man that has coached as long as K has, hasn't been at a little fault a time or two due to his personality and stubbornness. Coaching is all about relationships, if you're any good at it, and sometimes you just won't get along as well as you will with another kid.
Team chemistry isn't just on the players. Sometimes a player/coach isn't there.

I agree. But far more often than not, I give the benefit of the doubt to the Roy Williams, John Calipari, Coach K, etc. Besides, I also tend to think the players with the real beef are much more guarded in what they let out there. When I hear Chris Burgess, William Avery, Derryck Thornton and Semi Ojeleye stories I'm much more cautious with them. For every single one of those guys, there's 25 others who will tell you a completely different story about their experience.

No one is perfect. K is very hard to play for....he demands a lot. Publicly pointing fingers makes one look pretty weak, IMO.
 
Winslow wasn't a projected OAD so Ojeleye bolted b/c no one was beating out Winslow in 2016. Really enjoy watching JW play.

Semi left for Larry Brown, enough said.
 
I have more respect for my Mom than that. I don't consider her so helpless and weak I'd need to resort to assault somebody who raised their voice at her.
I get what your saying but ain’t no man on this earth raising their voice at my mom to the point she drops to her knees and has tears on her eyes. I can also quarentee you it wouldn’t be done in front of none of her five sons and my mother is far from weak and helpless.

That’s why the story seems such a stretch.
 
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They were also both 5 star players with seemingly no one in front of them. Nolan has an embattled Greg Paulus junior year Who he overtook Soph year. Quinn had Tyler Thornton...and he couldn’t even beat him out. The comparison is not always apples to apples but it isn’t apples to oranges like you’re suggesting.

Actually both nolan and Quinn cook were 4 star guys. Quinn was a 5 star in his junior year but was a 4 star the majority of his senior year. I don't remember when smith dropped but he ended out a 4 star guy. Regardless they both still played a decent amount of minutes. It helps in their development.


 
Actually both nolan and Quinn cook were 4 star guys. Quinn was a 5 star in his junior year but was a 4 star the majority of his senior year. I don't remember when smith dropped but he ended out a 4 star guy. Regardless they both still played a decent amount of minutes. It helps in their development.



I stand corrected. Although like you said i thought Nolan was a five star for at least a good bit. Either way the difference in their situations was the lack of players ahead of them in the rotation. Semi had Jabari and Hood in front of him, not to mention Sheed who played the 2/3. Again not even counting Josh. Could he have gotten more minutes? Probably- but that’s how K coaches so again, prove it in practice or when your time is called. It’s no secret here. He absolutely did neither. The way he played was poor at best, he stood around the three point line and jacked threes at a very low %. He didn’t do any of the things the staff asked him to do to get himself on the court and use his athletic frame- ironically the next year Justise did exactly that. He bodied up, became a defensive stopper, slashed, grabbed boards and hit the occasional threes.

Honestly i hate when kids transfer bc it’s a kid we clearly invested in and it doesn’t work out. He and his family invested in us and it didn’t work out. However that’s life. I don’t blame him and i don’t wish I’ll woll on the kid- i wish he would have stuck around and ran his own race which ironically ended up being 4.5 years or so? And the best part was it was at a lower tier conference and program and he played how the staff asked him to play from day 1. I guess Larry Brown was able to get through to him.
 
Sounds like a bitter mom and dad to me. I used to youth baseball. I was an assistant coach when my son played. We had to play everyone on the team and that was understood. Not all players got the same amount of p.t. I truly believe that some of the kids didn't want to play but still the same there were kids that didn't work hard also. Some of them goofed off and we had one kid who was playing left field who fielded a ground ball and turned and threw it over the 3rd base foul fence. I know he did it deliberately and I think his dad put him up to it. He quit right after that. know his dad well and it was par for the course for him to do that. I'm not trying to compare Semi's and his parent situation to what I experienced other than a lot of parents just need to be supportive. Semi did what he thought he needed to do. I thought he got sufficient pt. It seems to me he wanted to play the 3 position but while at Duke he didn't have the skills. I also remember his mixed tape that was all over this board while we were recruiting him and all I remember was dunks. Maybe if he had worked on his outside jump shot before he came to Duke perhaps the pt would have been there for him. Kids know the situation when they come to Duke and I hope he has a solid NBA career. And by the way even though my son played he batted down in the lower part of the lineup but played 2nd or 3rd base because he had the best glove on the team. OFC

I disagree.

Knowing Semi's family, their response is not bitter. You really have no basis to draw that conclusion. Your conclusion sounds more like "Defend Coach K always," that is the mantra of much of this board.

I do think Semi was not getting much quality PT but Duke wasn't the place for him - more on that.

I also think that the story they told is probably largely true. But, it is also their perception. Given the article and their background - being devoutly religious and also rather charismatic in that religion, I can see them taking some of those statements as "callous" or harsh when in fact they were not intended so. Impressions and perceptions differ. Especially if there are cultural differences. It's not a good look (certainly not for Nate James) but a) I don't think Semi's parents are lying in anyway; and b) I doubt any malice was intended from K at all. K has his own approach and I suspect he was a bit frustrated with "helicopter parents" - and reacted with a bit of short fuse. It wouldn't be the first or the 1000th time even that K has reacted quickly like that. And, c) I can also see with James, who is only an assistant and was probably frustrated with Semi's departure (James' career was pretty similar at Duke and he probably felt some offense), likely reacted just as they said; that situation probably got under his skin. What should happen is you apologize later and move on. He probably didn't.

Who hasn't had hundreds of situations get under their skin and responded, perhaps, inappropriately? It's not a negative symbol or indicative of K. But, I suspect it did go down in a similar way and I've dealt with people who are devoutly religious with that kind of background and moments like that can be much more emotional and "big" than they really are (hence her reaction when K stood up and said, "Am I lying?" - That's a coaching move - and was an over reaction - and I suspect he regretted it).

Anymore, Duke simply is not a great place for a 4-star kid who might improve over 3-4 years and has NBA dreams. Duke is no longer really developing players except by accident or good fortune. They are in the mode of recruiting over players and over-recruiting positions (e.g., Baker). The ones who are not starting or OAD, usually stay because they want the education, have met some friends, are willing to sit the bench, and probably don't have Big NBA Dreams - the way Semi clearly did or the way all OAD players do.
 
There is a nice mixture of blind homerism and people being over-reasonable ITT.

I am not going to pretend that K was not in the wrong if he indeed spoke to them in the manner that they alleged he did. But I won't go with the "bad look for K" because I don't think it is any different than some of his other "looks". Not everyone is going to view him as a man the same way. He doesn't coddle his players and he doesn't make promises to the parents. Duke is not for everyone, even some that commit to Duke. This is only a story because it is Duke and Coach K. They will get over it and Duke already has.
 
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Its likely K didn’t handle this situation great but it’s also likely that he and the family remember the incident a little differently.

Being around coaching myself...there are a lot of kids who want time without earning it and parents who get involved without seeing or understanding where their child really sits in the pecking order.
 
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Its likely K didn’t handle this situation great but it’s also likely that he and the family remember the incident a little differently.

Being around coaching myself...there are a lot of kids who want time without earning it and parents who get involved without seeing or understanding where their child really sits in the pecking order.
Very fair to say.
 
We're walking around with blinders on if we think it's all on the kids every time it doesn't work out. Some instances are probably on the kid or their family. But it's hard for me to think a man that has coached as long as K has, hasn't been at a little fault a time or two due to his personality and stubbornness. Coaching is all about relationships, if you're any good at it, and sometimes you just won't get along as well as you will with another kid.
Team chemistry isn't just on the players. Sometimes a player/coach isn't there.

I'd generally say it cuts both ways in the long run. Obviously we've had our share of transfers, so hiven the high sample size I would venture some blame is on staff. I dont know all the details, but I remember a kid Michael Chappell who left for either Mich or Mich St. I didnt hear any controversial feedback, but I would guess it was PT. At the time I thought we let a pretty good young player get away. In his freshman year over in Raleigh he was instrumental in us winning at NC State.

Thats just one sample of a kid leaving who may have helped us in the long run, but then you benefit as a team when a kid is not cooperating like a Taylor King....

OFC
 
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I remember a kid Michael Chappell who left for either Mich or Mich St. I didnt hear any controversial feedback, but I would guess it was PT
Chappell started a lot of games at Duke, but played his way to the bench prior to transferring to MSU.
 
I'd generally say it cuts both ways in the long run. Obviously we've had our share of transfers, so hiven the high sample size I would venture some blame is on staff.
I'm sure some guys who transferred could have contributed later, but who came in as a result of their leaving who may have helped us more?

If the blame on the staff is that they have a certain philosophy that means you don't get game time unless you earn it in practice, that's a style they've settled on and will accept the consequences of it. It's been like that forever and it's pointless continuing to discuss it. I don't consider a principled choice w/ full knowledge of the consequences something worthy of blame.

If the blame on the staff is that they could have done more to encourage certain players and assure them of their value at Duke, okay, but who's to say they didn't do exactly that w/ Nolan, Quinn, Amile, Demarcus, and others?

Following the '07 season, there was a notable shift from ignoring all the slights in the media to defending the program and being more proactive about Duke's image. That alone gives me the tiniest shred of belief that K might respond to Semi's family's statements... but I'm 99%+ sure he won't. But in line w/ that shift after '07, I wish there was some statement of disappointment or concern about transfers, or publicly visible efforts to prevent transfers. There ain't. So be it.
 
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I like Semi and thought he should have played more at the time because he had talent to become an elite college player.

Semi worked hard at SMU and developed a jump shot and became an great college basketball player and now plays in the NBA.
 
Move along, there is nothing to see here folks. That is all this is because the success of the program with players getting to the NBA far outweighs a families accusation about the treatment of their son. Bottom line is that the family thought more highly of their son then the coaches did. This happens in youth sports all the time. Look at little league. Coaches kids always seem to find their way onto all star rosters when it’s clear they are not that great. Parents want to believe and are usually blinded.
Duke’s Brotherhood and success will always overshadow this type of mud slinging.
 
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