Roy desperately pulling strings.....
- Thread starter hart2chesson
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If you can buy a Championship, you damn well know you can get a kid to play for you.
This isn't the place for politically charged assumptions or attempts to polarize an honest conversation. I won't respond to this.
Good call, let's drop the lawyer argument. There's 20 million reasons to do just that 9 miles down the road.
Clearly , unx knows they'll get the clearance so he can play immediately. What intrigues me is the total lack of acknowledging the COI in August. Do the holes think sanctions won't come outta that? Or if they do , they can kick the can down the road (again! ) Be interesting to see how this plays out.
Just do think that UNC will get any sanctions . Too much moneyy and power ofr them to get hit
If he plays right away it's a good indication on just how powerful the unc nation is and also a good indication what the decision will be as far as the academic scandal will come out. This will change collegiate athletics forever. OFC
With ole Roy somehow getting cam to go to unc and sit out another yr just to play in conference, is so stupid. IMO, taking a kid from another school in your conference is just a dirty thing to do, especially when it's Carolina. Rest assured if the roles were reversed ole would give cam a lifetime of cokes to not got to pitt. Anyways, how do you feel about them? Should the kid be able to play right away? Would you take a kid even from unc that wanted to transfer to duke? I'm curious as to how you feel on the cam Johnson situation and what's your take on in conference transfers.
I think if the rule needs to be changed then change it but not at the time hof coach roy williams needs a player to help make his program better this season. To me this is what the whole issue is about. unc once again getting special treatment simply because they think they should. They are gonna get out of the academic scandal because of their money and attorneys so why not pull this off. cam johnson speaks of hypocrisy but unc is the definition of hypocrisy. And they wonder why there are so many ABc fans out there. OFC
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I'm happy for the kid....he should be able to play for whoever and wherever he wants. Hopefully this is the start of the end to one of the stupidest rules the NCAA has in their playbook....and there's a lot of stupid one's.
The kid gave three years to Pitt. He graduated with honors and represented their program with class. He watched a head coach leave and a new one come in. He watched an AD leave and a new one come in. All four of those guys broke contracts to leave where they were. Cam Johnson isn't breaking a contract....he did what he was supposed to do. Besides, it's not as though there isn't prior precedence to this happening other places. I get it's UNC....but the reality for me is maybe this does away with a stupid rule.
Congrats, Cam! You get two more years of being beaten by Duke that you can add to your resume.
The kid gave three years to Pitt. He graduated with honors and represented their program with class. He watched a head coach leave and a new one come in. He watched an AD leave and a new one come in. All four of those guys broke contracts to leave where they were. Cam Johnson isn't breaking a contract....he did what he was supposed to do. Besides, it's not as though there isn't prior precedence to this happening other places. I get it's UNC....but the reality for me is maybe this does away with a stupid rule.
Congrats, Cam! You get two more years of being beaten by Duke that you can add to your resume.
The number of losses UNC has suffered at the hands of Duke in the last 8 seasons is kind of remarkable. UNC has been in the top 3 of the ACC 6 of the last 8 years, yet they've lost to Duke 13 out of 18 times. Simply put, if UNC's ACC schedule consisted of only their last 18 games against Duke, they would be in 12th place, having to play on the first day of the ACC Tournament. If Duke's ACC schedule only consisted of the last 18 games against UNC, they would be the #1 seed in the conference (using the 2017 standings as a benchmark).
Ah, but it is the place to run your mouth about a bun
Don't mind at all dropping the lawyer argument, as I did not start it, BUT "good call"?? Realy? Really?
This became all blown out of proportion because its UNC..IMO, Jay Bilas should get a big fat check from Roy because he was the point man in the media on bringing this about. Transferring to another school is not right IMO, because in the long run kids will go to programs that win the most. As Adam Bittner of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette tweeted, if you care about parity in college hoops forget it in regards to this rule.
I am with Duke head coach David Cutcliffe: we educated em, we trained em, why should we let em go down the street to help someone else potentially beat us who we play every year....Congrats to the kid for graduating, but there are plenty of other schools the individual can attend where there is not a competition conflict.
Also its important to remember 40% of these kids LEAVE grad school after their athletic eligibility is used up! Nobody talked about this being a "stupid rule" until Roy Williams became desperate to fill the 3 slot next year. John Swofford has his hands all over this one...
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I am with Duke head coach David Cutcliffe: we educated em, we trained em, why should we let em go down the street to help someone else potentially beat us who we play every year....Congrats to the kid for graduating, but there are plenty of other schools the individual can attend where there is not a competition conflict.
Also its important to remember 40% of these kids LEAVE grad school after their athletic eligibility is used up! Nobody talked about this being a "stupid rule" until Roy Williams became desperate to fill the 3 slot next year. John Swofford has his hands all over this one...
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I think Adam Bittner says it best in his column today.
http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...lina-pitt-stallings-ncaa/stories/201706060193
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http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...lina-pitt-stallings-ncaa/stories/201706060193
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A few things....
First off, don't be so paranoid. Jay Bilas is not saying what he's saying because of his love affair with North Carolina. Do you even know how ridiculous that sounds?
Second, you can be with Coach Cutcliffe. That's fine. Do you think coaches should be able to break contracts? Besides, isn't an athletic scholarship on a year-to-year basis? It just doesn't make sense to me holding these kids hostage while coaches and administrators come and go. Cam Johnson signed up three years ago to play for Jamie Dixon at Pittsburgh. Dixon bailed and took another job. Johnson stayed, graduated with honors and represented Pitt in the highest regard. There's no doubt in my mind that if this didn't involve UNC you wouldn't care one way or the other.
Lastly, people have talked about this being a stupid rule forever. You just didn't care until UNC was involved. Besides, I'm not sure what the 40% leaving is supposed to do for your argument. I did a quick google search and found that less than 55% of students who start graduate school finish. That's not far off from the 40% number you're referencing. So it's not just athletes. Also, only 36% of people who start college obtain a bachelor's degree in less than six years. Think about that....almost two in three don't even finish college.
Let the kid play ball wherever he wants. I think he's earned that right.
I could do w/o the "paranoia" comment and don't tell me to "toughen up" just because its a message board. Don't tell me its "ridiculous" either because there's plenty of folks who think Bilas tends to see things thru lite blue filters.
Bilas didnt make this a NATIONAL STORY about the rule until UNC was involved. You obviously see no connection between Bilas making it national, and his fight for their UTMOST SURVIVAL in the NCAA scandal. Fine we disagree, (lol, as we usually do). No worries you do a great job as a mod,generally speaking.
I care about the move because it effects the team I pull for and I think David Cutcliffe knows a little more about this than either YOU or I. If I am in his shoes I dont want Thomas Sirk (our grad transfer at qb) going somewhere where we have to play him next year. Coaches dont play the games- players do, i could give a flip about a coach being at a different school next yr in conference. We molded that player, educated him, and he should have to sit out a year if he stays in conference....
By the way Bilas didnt mention the Sirk transfer until the Pitt story emerged. "Ridiculous" meh, I think not....
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Good point and it's a valid one too. Bilas et al drone on about what's fair to the athlete ( a valid argument too! ) but this grad school rule is very likely to be more about OAD at the school of the kids' choice than it is about continuing their education. I see a lot of "He graduated in 3 years , top of his class yada yada yada." That all may be true but there's a good possibility that Cam's gone the day the basketball season ends.
I get what Dukiejay says about this kid that has gone through a coaching change and has graduated. He's earned the right to play without sitting. I agree with Hart and others that he shouldn't be allowed to transfer to The Holes. Out of conference but allowed to play right away is my take.
Mac I totally agree w/the argument you and Dukie Jay noted about a grad transfer being eligible to play immediately w/o sitting out. Its only fair! However as you mentioned, I think they should transfer as you say, "out of conference."
The following link provides a solid and fair assessment on both sides of the argument. Our football coach at Duke University David Cutcliffe (about to start his 10th yr w/the Blue Devils) provides a critical point IMO, why a player SHOULD NOT be allowed to transfer WITHIN THE LEAGUE.....(Keep in mind Coach Cut endorsed the release of qb Thomas Sirk totally this yr w/IMMEDIATE ELIGIBILITY, as long as he didnt go IN CONFERENCE or appear on our schedule). Thomas Sirk is a happy camper at ECU, and Cut is happy for him. Worked out well for both parties!
http://www.journalnow.com/sports/wf...cle_8a2a290a-8fc7-5b7a-b3ca-7e45fe68230c.html
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First thing...I don't believe the NCAA is stopping Johnson from playing immediately with the Tar Heels. This is Pitt's own policy, which Cam Johnson agreed to when he signed to play for them. Call it unfair, mean, ridiculous, whatever, but his signature was on the dotted line. This basically is a non-compete clause that is used by many businesses (especially the media) to keep assets from competing on a local level.He's only restricted from the ACC, that still leaves over 300+ Division 1 schools to choose from. I'm old school, I believe you honor your commitments. If you sign, don't whine.
College basketball is a big time business, and is one of the few revenue sports (along with football) that pays the bills and allows all the other 'non-revenue' sports (many that have few fans) to exist. Having a non-compete clause that forbids a local competitor (ACC schools) to benefit from the time and money used to hone that asset doesn't seem that out of line.
Oh, and I will admit freely that the fact that a program that has cheated for 20 years, and a coach that is a blatant cheater is attempting to do something (that they wouldn't ever allow) galls my ass.
And what if this was Grayson Allen transferring to UNC? That would leave a pretty bad taste in the mouths of Duke fans.
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College basketball is a big time business, and is one of the few revenue sports (along with football) that pays the bills and allows all the other 'non-revenue' sports (many that have few fans) to exist. Having a non-compete clause that forbids a local competitor (ACC schools) to benefit from the time and money used to hone that asset doesn't seem that out of line.
Oh, and I will admit freely that the fact that a program that has cheated for 20 years, and a coach that is a blatant cheater is attempting to do something (that they wouldn't ever allow) galls my ass.
And what if this was Grayson Allen transferring to UNC? That would leave a pretty bad taste in the mouths of Duke fans.
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Marvelous post, kids and their parents are VERY AWARE of the parameters when they sign Dirt! As you noted its not like there are not plenty of other schools OUTSIDE a conference to continue their educational pursuits, and exercise their 1 year of athletic eligibility. The UNC - Pitt case IMO, is just too political as well for my taste w/Roy badgering Stallings (his ex KU asst) to release Johnson immediately to play at an ACC member institution. Rumor has it Roy has offered him an asst job at UNC in case he leaves Pitt. (He has nothing this year, which is one reason Johnson's dad said he wanted to get his son out of Pitt).
Per your point on Grayson Allen, thats very interesting: Jay Bilas was asked last week on twitter if he thought K would allow Grayson to grad transfer to UNC if he were so inclined. Bilas said yes, Duke doesnt restrict BASKETBALL transfers. No WAY IMO, would K allow such a thing....Duke fans would have a fit! OFC
It's definitely paranoia, no matter how you spin it. Jay Bilas loves Duke more than you and I combined. On numerous occasions he's called Coach K a life mentor. Just because you think Bilas sees things "thru lite blue filters" doesn't make it true. Have you ever considered maybe it's you and those others who are only seeing things with Duke-colored glasses?
Jay Bilas has also gone on record before on this rule....we're just noticing it now because of the situation at hand. Jay has never wavered in his dislike of the NCAA's operating procedures. This isn't about Duke and UNC, as much as you want it to be.....but at least you can admit this bugs you because it is UNC. That's a good start.
Lastly, Cutcliffe has an opinion on the matter. Does he carry more stature because he's around it more? Certainly, but he's not infallible. Former President Obama and current President Trump are briefed on matters more than the public, therefore they're making decisions on the information provided to them. This is no different. I've disagreed with both presidents on matters and I disagree with Cutcliffe here. Sure, I can understand someone taking the stance that these players shouldn't be allowed to transfer within conference, but for me that applies to them if they haven't graduated. Cameron Johnson has graduated. I don't think Pitt should be able to hold him hostage. Call me crazy.
Depending on his professional aspirations you could certainly be right, but what does that have to do with this argument? It's a completely different one entirely. Duke has looked at grad transfer opportunities in the past (heck, in the last few months) and likely will again soon. It's probably a matter of time before they take one too. Not once have I seen this argument broached by a Duke fan when our staff is looking at similar players.
It's definitely paranoia, no matter how you spin it. Jay Bilas loves Duke more than you and I combined. On numerous occasions he's called Coach K a life mentor. Just because you think Bilas sees things "thru lite blue filters" doesn't make it true. Have you ever considered maybe it's you and those others who are only seeing things with Duke-colored glasses?
RESPONSE:Not true. Bilas is in the back pocket of ESPN president and UNC alum John Skipper. When Roy appeared on ESPN to respond to McCants charges, Jay thru softballs....This entire thing fits like a glove. No matter how much you defend him, I stand by my views Bilas may have spoken about it in the past, but he led the parade for Johnson to UNC.
Jay Bilas has also gone on record before on this rule....we're just noticing it now because of the situation at hand. Jay has never wavered in his dislike of the NCAA's operating procedures. This isn't about Duke and UNC, as much as you want it to be.....but at least you can admit this bugs you because it is UNC. That's a good start.
RESPONSE:Bilas MADE IT ABOUT Duke and UNC when he led the charge for Johnson to UNC and ripped Duke for restricting Thomas Sirk from ACC schools.
Lastly, Cutcliffe has an opinion on the matter. Does he carry more stature because he's around it more? Certainly, but he's not infallible. Former President Obama and current President Trump are briefed on matters more than the public, therefore they're making decisions on the information provided to them. This is no different. I've disagreed with both presidents on matters and I disagree with Cutcliffe here. Sure, I can understand someone taking the stance that these players shouldn't be allowed to transfer within conference, but for me that applies to them if they haven't graduated. Cameron Johnson has graduated. I don't think Pitt should be able to hold him hostage. Call me crazy.
RESPONSEukie Jay I have news for you buddy- you're "not infallible" either.....
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To answer something else, yesterday you told me something I said was "ridiculous." Its only fair I have a chance to answer. Today you said Bilas loves Duke more than me and you combined. You have NO WAY of including ME in that statement. There are others on here who know me and know my love for Duke. To try and measure my love for the university with yourself vs Bilas is " ridiculous" my friend. I am older than you and have followed Duke athletics religiously for over a half century.
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Basketball is a big business. A lot of money at stake. How much do the players make? Since it is their education that they receive, why would you limit the one thing that they do get? I do not profess to know what Cam is interested in for his MBA, but I don't believe anyone on this board is either. He graduated in good standing. Let him pursue his masters wherever he wants. Least college basketball could do since his education is the reward he receives for playing.
Agree with most of what you said, just have problem with a potential pandora's box of grad transfers WITHIN CONFERENCES. I fear this will result in much more wheeling and dealing by coaches nationally, and ultimately the rich will get richer.
What I mean by that is I agree w/Adam Bittner of The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette: it will ultimately weaken the "parity" of the game. If the NCAA passes such a rule (and you will hear much resentment by coaches), kids are more likely to gravitate toward traditional powers (be it UNC, KY, DUKE,KANSAS) and conferences will lose balance over time.
Dont get me wrong- I ALL FOR CAM playing ANYWHERE next yr except in-conference or a team on Pitt's schedule. Nonetheless its a moot point now, I understand he will play at UNC next year. Good luck-puts you back in hunt for FF again....
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I understand your thought process. I just don't believe there is parity today. I have never seen a top 100 recruit at the University of Montana or seen them in the top 25. They cannot garner the recruits. Similar to Boston College and many others.
Cetain schools have schemes or coaches with great eyes for talent that is underrated. They will compete until that coach moves up. Pitt is in that category in my opinion. And the last 2 coaches kept it rolling but Stallings will not regardless of keeping Johnson or not.
Cetain schools have schemes or coaches with great eyes for talent that is underrated. They will compete until that coach moves up. Pitt is in that category in my opinion. And the last 2 coaches kept it rolling but Stallings will not regardless of keeping Johnson or not.
You make some good points Montana. Johnson was Pitt's best returnee on a bad team, and I think it will cost them several games they might have won. Imagine if Clemson lost a key returnee next year, immediately eligible to play for Rick Pitino at Loiusville. That might cost them 3 or 4 games not to mention the one or home and home w/the Cards. I guess I just have a problem w/all the potential repercussions.Respect your thoughts though MH....
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Look , all I'm doin' stating a fact...a lotta these kids use the "grad school" rule as a way to get another year of athletic eligibility. Period. Even at that , my only concern would be transferring to another school withIN the same conference. I have zero objections to a kid goin' the grad school route to play more. You said Duke has done the same. Do they look at other ACC players? If so , I'm not gonna be hypocritical. But my concern would be the same even if it was Duke. If both parties sign off on it , then who am I to say different? But ,again , I can see where a school would have a problem with it. Don't know about K but I'm pretty sure Cutcliffe ain't a fan of the rule ( has spoken publicly about it ) so I doubt he'd approach other ACC kids lest he look like a ginormous hypocrite. Jus' sayin.'
Response: I don't even know how or where to respond. Your post was that bad. You win.
Response: I don't even know how or where to respond. Your post was that bad. You win.
It's a rule currently and just think it's ridiculous that these rules get changed or exceptions are made when coaches like Roy or Cal are of a sudden needing it to happen.
Response: I don't even know how or where to respond. Your post was that bad. You win.
Don't go being a sore loser now....Remember in the end WE ARE ALL BLUE DEVIL FANS!
BNM you got it nailed about Bilas wanting to please his boss. Like I said there are others besides us who know he carries the water for Roy....,
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