Just in case this has slipped anyone's mind.

[ticket2ride04]

Isn't Dean one of the folks that initiated the afam classes? If so, then there's no way in hell Roy will bad mouth the folks that left him to clean it up. Dean is to him what Knight is to K. From that angle, and factoring in loyalty, I understand why Roy acted the way he did publicly.

I touched on some of that in my other post. UNC is a mega liberal arts school. The AFAM started as one thing and morphed into another over time. Roy is extremely loyal to his ‘family’ even when they have warts. He would have literally taken a bullet for Dean. Right or wrong, he protected his family as best he could.

 

[dukephysics]

It’s not that simple. To be brutally honest, as you suggest, would literally destroy people’s lives and certainly the program. That would be a heavy burden for any alumnus who happens to be heavily involved with his school. I’d also imagine that he didn’t really grasp the depth of what was happening with the AFAM program. He was concerned about the clustering, but I don’t think anyone really knew until all the information came out. If the shoe were on the other foot, I’d expect K to handle it in a similar fashion. His rhetoric might be different, but the message would largely be the same. I’ll handle my program.

Again, no one has to believe me. But my brother played baseball for UNC. Was an all-American. Has NCAA records. Was drafted and is still getting paid to play. He took 3 AFAM courses. A coach never directed him to take them. Other players just told him to. He did all the work required but he knew it was an easy class. He’s always said he was pissed because had he known the grades were so easy, he wouldn’t have done the work. I’m not the biggest Mike Fox fan, but he was pretty clueless about what classes his guys were taking. You’d be surprised how insulated some of these coaches are from the players. Some of it is plausible deniability, but some of it is just letting a young man figure out his own path. I couldn’t imagine trying to monitor a football team.

I think that's a very, VERY dangerous game to say that Roy didn't have a responsibility to report because it would destroy lives and the program.
He had to have known the depth pretty well. If he noticed what was happening, he would have called some players in, looked them in the eye, and asked "what the hell is going on here." He was either totally unaware (which he claims, but you say he worked in a manner to suggest he knew something), or knew much, much more than you might suggest. If 11/13 had been majoring in aerospace engineering he would have probably looked into it too. If things changed, it's because Roy said so. And he would only say so if he knew what was going on and what could happen. If things were above board, he would have just continued coaching the bonus check for players making good grades.
I don't think K is above reproach. In fact, and I may catch flack for this, it wouldn't surprise me if Coach K would do exactly the same thing under exactly the same circumstances. Does this hypothetical then earn Roy a pass? Should Lance Armstrong get his trophies back because everyone else was cheating?
I have no reason to not believe your story about your brother. I have brothers. They were also division 1 athletes in a non-football/basketball sport. I believe you when you say a coach never suggested it (plausible deniability). The only thing, in my mind, that the student-athletes here would be responsible for is if the NCAA came in and declared them ineligible, they could be upset about it, but they get what they deserve. The students knew it wasn't above board and they took a risk. The "adults" have their jobs on the line, and the decisions they make should and do affect their employment status. And choosing to not pay attention is a choice.

 

[peterjurkinsquirtsroywilliams]

Roy knew and participated in the scandal. Even past players have admitted to this. The man is sneaky and plays the golly gee Gomer Pyle persona. Roy isn’t stupid (only when it comes to Timeouts) and pulled the play dumb card.

 

[ticket2ride04]

I think that's a very, VERY dangerous game to say that Roy didn't have a responsibility to report because it would destroy lives and the program.
He had to have known the depth pretty well. If he noticed what was happening, he would have called some players in, looked them in the eye, and asked "what the hell is going on here." He was either totally unaware (which he claims, but you say he worked in a manner to suggest he knew something), or knew much, much more than you might suggest. If 11/13 had been majoring in aerospace engineering he would have probably looked into it too. If things changed, it's because Roy said so. And he would only say so if he knew what was going on and what could happen. If things were above board, he would have just continued coaching the bonus check for players making good grades.
I don't think K is above reproach. In fact, and I may catch flack for this, it wouldn't surprise me if Coach K would do exactly the same thing under exactly the same circumstances. Does this hypothetical then earn Roy a pass? Should Lance Armstrong get his trophies back because everyone else was cheating?
I have no reason to not believe your story about your brother. I have brothers. They were also division 1 athletes in a non-football/basketball sport. I believe you when you say a coach never suggested it (plausible deniability). The only thing, in my mind, that the student-athletes here would be responsible for is if the NCAA came in and declared them ineligible, they could be upset about it, but they get what they deserve. The students knew it wasn't above board and they took a risk. The "adults" have their jobs on the line, and the decisions they make should and do affect their employment status. And choosing to not pay attention is a choice.

I hear everything you are saying. I don’t know what I would have done in that situation. I don’t know exactly how much he discovered. I have an assumption but it could be wildly wrong.

At the end of the day, I agree with what @Terror Beard said. This wasn’t Penn St or Mich St. No one actually got hurt. Now one could make the argument that if Roy protected his house here, would he do the same for worse infractions. Hopefully, we never know.

 

[ticket2ride04]

Roy knew and participated in the scandal. Even past players have admitted to this. The man is sneaky and plays the golly gee Gomer Pyle persona. Roy isn’t stupid (only when it comes to Timeouts) and pulled the play dumb card.

Thanks, Pete. Your input is appreciated.

 

[dukedevilz]

Just came across this tweet. Somewhat related lol.

 

[peterjurkinsquirtsroywilliams]

Thanks, Pete. Your input is appreciated.

You’re certainly welcome!

 

[peterjurkinsquirtsroywilliams]

Just came across this tweet. Somewhat related lol.

View embedded media

They’re taking graduate classes. I always knew unc had a great business program!

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

OFC

 

[ticket2ride04]

You’re certainly welcome!

Spoiler

 

[Showenuff]

What up ticket? Man, wth ya doin over here chasin' sympathy for the Cheetahs for? You ain't gonna find it.

 

[ticket2ride04]

What up ticket? Man, wth ya doin over here chasin' sympathy for the Cheetahs for? You ain't gonna find it.

It’s been a boring summer and the UNC board is in meltdown over football. Meanwhile, my alcohol intake is on the rise. Cheers!

 

[hart2chesson]

You’re certainly welcome!

Keep it up Jurkin!!! You're killing it man! Roy Knew, and "Cheated" author and UNC history prof Jay Smith KNOWS he knew because of the close association between UNC academic liaison Wayne Walden and Roy. Asked if he ever told Roy about the scandal, Walden replied he "could not remember." Cmon man....I despised Dean, but Roy Williams took my distaste to an even higher level. I LOVE to pull against THE CHEATS, and Roy is a liar according to Jay Smith...

Remember when Roy called out Mary Willingham for telling "lies" about the unbelievably lax admissions standards for UNC hoopsters? Willingham called his bluff and invited him to discuss the situation. Haha, she BACKED ROY DOWN, and he declined to meet w/her. Why??? Because Roy Knew, thats the unvarnished truth.

I don't buy the protecting Dean garbage. He could have admitted to it, and never have mentioned El Deano. Besides Matt Doherty had already exposed Dean, when he said "Smith and Guthridge told me Dont Touch Academics."

#RoyKnew

OFC

 

[skysdad]

I touched on some of that in my other post. UNC is a mega liberal arts school. The AFAM started as one thing and morphed into another over time. Roy is extremely loyal to his ‘family’ even when they have warts. He would have literally taken a bullet for Dean. Right or wrong, he protected his family as best he could.

ticket I must admire what you are trying to do. You are doing a fantastic job of spinning this thing but you aren't on thr where everything you are saying is getting record breaking likes from the thr crowd. Dude just come out and say what it is "unc cheated and I know it. We got out of it with some big time money and big time unc lawyers. It was wrong and I admit it and I'm thankful weren't punished. I love unc but what went on for 20 plus years is wrong was wrong. " ticket if you do that your "like" count will zoom here at DI. One more thing. Have you looked under the rug lately? That dirt is still under there. OFC

 

[QC Dukie]

ticket I must admire what you are trying to do. You are doing a fantastic job of spinning this thing but you aren't on thr where everything you are saying is getting record breaking likes from the thr crowd. Dude just come out and say what it is "unc cheated and I know it. We got out of it with some big time money and big time unc lawyers. It was wrong and I admit it and I'm thankful weren't punished. I love unc but what went on for 20 plus years is wrong was wrong. " ticket if you do that your "like" count will zoom here at DI. One more thing. Have you looked under the rug lately? That dirt is still under there. OFC

Sky they never fail to keep us entertained. And it shouldn’t be too much longer before our buddies over at rump rafters start paying us some visits. It’s getting closer to November.

 

[DukefanKY]

Sky they never fail to keep us entertained. And it shouldn’t be too much longer before our buddies over at rump rafters start paying us some visits. It’s getting closer to November.

RR is too busy talking about how Zion is fat and knees aren't gonna hold up. And how they don't care about Jefferies de-committing because they'd rather have someone else anyway

 

[skysdad]

RR is too busy talking about how Zion is fat and knees aren't gonna hold up. And how they don't care about Jefferies de-committing because they'd rather have someone else anyway

Well perhaps "Fat Boy' is gonna shed some poundage on UK come Nov. Yeah I'm waiting for some of those R.R trolls to stop by. It's got to where I can't tell them apart any way. OFC

 

[skysdad]

It’s been a boring summer and the UNC board is in meltdown over football. Meanwhile, my alcohol intake is on the rise. Cheers!

Did you by any shoes with your connections with unc? OFC

 

[skysdad]

It’s not that simple. To be brutally honest, as you suggest, would literally destroy people’s lives and certainly the program. That would be a heavy burden for any alumnus who happens to be heavily involved with his school. I’d also imagine that he didn’t really grasp the depth of what was happening with the AFAM program. He was concerned about the clustering, but I don’t think anyone really knew until all the information came out. If the shoe were on the other foot, I’d expect K to handle it in a similar fashion. His rhetoric might be different, but the message would largely be the same. I’ll handle my program.

Again, no one has to believe me. But my brother played baseball for UNC. Was an all-American. Has NCAA records. Was drafted and is still getting paid to play. He took 3 AFAM courses. A coach never directed him to take them. Other players just told him to. He did all the work required but he knew it was an easy class. He’s always said he was pissed because had he known the grades were so easy, he wouldn’t have done the work. I’m not the biggest Mike Fox fan, but he was pretty clueless about what classes his guys were taking. You’d be surprised how insulated some of these coaches are from the players. Some of it is plausible deniability, but some of it is just letting a young man figure out his own path. I couldn’t imagine trying to monitor a football team.

You keep posting about your brother. Are you wanting one of us to ask who he is? OFC

 

[DukefanKY]

Well perhaps "Fat Boy' is gonna shed some poundage on UK come Nov. Yeah I'm waiting for some of those R.R trolls to stop by. It's got to where I can't tell them apart any way. OFC

I'll be there in person in Nov.....I hope he lights the place up

 

[hart2chesson]

Did you by any shoes with your connections with unc? OFC

#LarryKnew

OFC

 

[ticket2ride04]

ticket I must admire what you are trying to do. You are doing a fantastic job of spinning this thing but you aren't on thr where everything you are saying is getting record breaking likes from the thr crowd. Dude just come out and say what it is "unc cheated and I know it. We got out of it with some big time money and big time unc lawyers. It was wrong and I admit it and I'm thankful weren't punished. I love unc but what went on for 20 plus years is wrong was wrong. " ticket if you do that your "like" count will zoom here at DI. One more thing. Have you looked under the rug lately? That dirt is still under there. OFC

A few things:

- I don’t post on Radar. I’ve posted more here today than I have in 5 years on Radar. The search function will back that up.

- I’m jaded and I don’t think we did anything wrong. I don’t love the NCAA model and find enforcement of most rules silly. I don’t expect anyone here to agree with me, but it’s how I feel.

- My honest assessment is that most major programs have a good bit of dirt hiding under their rugs. UNC most likely still does. Stanford does. Duke does. Just my opinion.

Did you by any shoes with your connections with unc? OFC

Not at all. Just providing some context.

 

[skysdad]

#LarryKnew

OFC

larry probably sold shoes too. He probably is just trying to get back some of the money he paid back when his football team vandalized the visitors locker room at Wallace Wade a few seasons back I remember he whined about how much it cost him. whatever tiny respect I had for him went away that day. OFC

 

[ticket2ride04]

larry probably sold shoes too. He probably is just trying to get back some of the money he paid back when his football team vandalized the visitors locker room at Wallace Wade a few seasons back I remember he whined about how much it cost him. whatever tiny respect I had for him went away that day. OFC

He whines about it? I don’t recall that. What did he say?

 

[hart2chesson]

larry probably sold shoes too. He probably is just trying to get back some of the money he paid back when his football team vandalized the visitors locker room at Wallace Wade a few seasons back I remember he whined about how much it cost him. whatever tiny respect I had for him went away that day. OFC

Bubba and Larry showed their posteriors in that escapade Sky, right on.There was at least one UNC assistant coach present when the vandalism took place.He should have been terminated, and Bubba and Larry should have been much more humble and contrite...

OFC

 

[skysdad]

He whines about it? I don’t recall that. What did he say?

fedora said he thought the cost of repairs were excessive. Of course I don't expect you to remember that. OFC

 

[ticket2ride04]

fedora said he thought the cost of repairs were excessive. Of course I don't expect you to remember that. OFC

Interesting. I seem to recall Bubba Cunningham saying as much, but not Fedora. He’s usually pretty tight-lipped on matters like this. I also recall Cutcliffe refusing to return Fedora’s apology phone call

 

[hart2chesson]

I also recall Cutcliffe refusing to return Fedora’s apology phone call

Well whoopeediggetydo.... I mean why should he return Captain RedBull's call....Cut knows a member of the UNC staff was overseeing your boys childish behavior, and he owed Fedora nothing. Fedora should have put his apology in the form of a letter anyway. Besides, Cut was letting his AD, Dr Kevin White handle the matter...

#LarryCalled
#BigDeal

OFC

 

[ticket2ride04]

Well whoopeediggetydo.... I mean why should he return Captain RedBull's call....Cut knows a member of the UNC staff was overseeing your boys childish behavior, and he owed Fedora nothing. Fedora should have put his apology in the form of a letter anyway. Besides, Cut was letting his AD, Dr Kevin White handle the matter...

#LarryCalled
#BigDeal

OFC

We did send a letter as well. It went unanswered.

 

[GillJET]

We did send a letter as well. It went unanswered.

You have got to be kidding me that you are trying to defend UNC’s actions in this situation.

The best you can hope for is that this incident is not brought up. Because there is no defending UNC in this instance.

 

[Terror Beard]

lol

I look forward to seeing which poster is going to use the ol' "I'm rubber, you're glue" argument first.

 

[ticket2ride04]

You have got to be kidding me that you are trying to defend UNC’s actions in this situation.

The best you can hope for is that this incident is not brought up. Because there is no defending UNC in this instance.

You realize it was kids spray painting the Victory Bell, right? A tradition and it got carried away a bit. I wouldn’t have cared if the same had happened to us.

 

[topps coach]

I touched on some of that in my other post. UNC is a mega liberal arts school. The AFAM started as one thing and morphed into another over time. Roy is extremely loyal to his ‘family’ even when they have warts. He would have literally taken a bullet for Dean. Right or wrong, he protected his family as best he could.

Ticket Ithink you and numerous other Unc fans fail to understand the real reason that other teams fans are pissed about the AFAM scandal is that UNC fans proclaimed loudly that their school was above reproach and everyone one but them was cheating.Even after this THR posters consistently discuss the high academic standards at UNC.The arrogance and hypocrisy is what turns people off.

 

[GillJET]

You realize it was kids spray painting the Victory Bell, right? A tradition and it got carried away a bit. I wouldn’t have cared if the same had happened to us.

We are talking close to $30,000 in damages, correct?

 

[skysdad]

Ticket Ithink you and numerous other Unc fans fail to understand the real reason that other teams fans are pissed about the AFAM scandal is that UNC fans proclaimed loudly that their school was above reproach and everyone one but them was cheating.Even after this THR posters consistently discuss the high academic standards at UNC.The arrogance and hypocrisy is what turns people off.

This post pretty much sums it up. OFC

 

[skysdad]

We are talking close to $30,000 in damages, correct?

Yes. OFC

You realize it was kids spray painting the Victory Bell, right? A tradition and it got carried away a bit. I wouldn’t have cared if the same had happened to us.

Victory Bell? Come on ticket stop . They spray painted the carpet and walls among other things. I can't believe you said Victory Bell. Well on second thought I didn't expect you to remember all that happened. unc fans seem to forget negative unc incidents all the time. Just for fun do you remember former tar heel player mahktar n'aiye? Did you know dean smith recruited him for his junior year then resigned and left him to be the next in kine's problem. Going back to your post where you mentioned matt doherty. Is he the scape goat with the AFAM? OFC

 

[skysdad]

Duke billed UNC $27,000 for paint damage after Nov. football game
By Laura Keeley - lkeeley@newsobserver.com

• 
  

February 13, 2015 11:56 AM

Updated February 14, 2015 03:09 AM

After the University of North Carolina defeated Duke in football on Nov. 24, the Tar Heels spray-painted the Victory Bell – and the Blue Devils’ practice facility turf and visitor’s locker room. And Duke billed UNC $27,170.44 for the damages, according to information obtained in a public records request.

Most of the money – $22,028.44 – went toward new carpet in the Duke visitor’s locker room. According to an email sent from Gerald Harrison, the Duke associate athletic director who oversees football, to UNC athletic director Bubba Cunningham, 60 carpet tiles were spray painted, and they weren’t able to be cleaned. That required a full carpet replacement throughout the facility, Harrison wrote.

An additional $672.00 was required to remove spray paint from Duke’s practice field – there was a spray-painted line from one 30-yard line to the 50-yard line, according to the email. And $4,470.00 was needed to paint the walls of the practice facility and three panels in Wallace Wade Stadium that had been sprayed U-N-C. “UNC” was also spray painted four places in the practice facility.

In a formal apology letter to Duke athletic director Kevin White on Feb. 3, Cunningham said he was disappointed that Duke football coach David Cutcliffe never returned UNC coach Larry Fedora’s apology call, which came the Friday following the game.


Read more here: https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/duke/article10865282.html#storylink=cpy


Just for information of those who forgot. OFC

 

[ticket2ride04]

Ticket Ithink you and numerous other Unc fans fail to understand the real reason that other teams fans are pissed about the AFAM scandal is that UNC fans proclaimed loudly that their school was above reproach and everyone one but them was cheating.Even after this THR posters consistently discuss the high academic standards at UNC.The arrogance and hypocrisy is what turns people off.

It totally get that. I have never liked the holier than thou fans. Even though I hated what happened to my school, it was fun seeing the pretentious jerks get just desserts. I have no illusions why we took it on the chin and expect more in the future. Getting knocked off a high horse is a good thing in my opinion

We are talking close to $30,000 in damages, correct?

Yup

Duke billed UNC $27,000 for paint damage after Nov. football game
By Laura Keeley - lkeeley@newsobserver.com

February 13, 2015 11:56 AM

Updated February 14, 2015 03:09 AM

After the University of North Carolina defeated Duke in football on Nov. 24, the Tar Heels spray-painted the Victory Bell – and the Blue Devils’ practice facility turf and visitor’s locker room. And Duke billed UNC $27,170.44 for the damages, according to information obtained in a public records request.

Most of the money – $22,028.44 – went toward new carpet in the Duke visitor’s locker room. According to an email sent from Gerald Harrison, the Duke associate athletic director who oversees football, to UNC athletic director Bubba Cunningham, 60 carpet tiles were spray painted, and they weren’t able to be cleaned. That required a full carpet replacement throughout the facility, Harrison wrote.

An additional $672.00 was required to remove spray paint from Duke’s practice field – there was a spray-painted line from one 30-yard line to the 50-yard line, according to the email. And $4,470.00 was needed to paint the walls of the practice facility and three panels in Wallace Wade Stadium that had been sprayed U-N-C. “UNC” was also spray painted four places in the practice facility.

In a formal apology letter to Duke athletic director Kevin White on Feb. 3, Cunningham said he was disappointed that Duke football coach David Cutcliffe never returned UNC coach Larry Fedora’s apology call, which came the Friday following the game.


Read more here: https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/duke/article10865282.html#storylink=cpy


Just for information of those who forgot. OFC

Your article sums it up nicely. Basically all the money went to carpet. They had to replace it. I could see kids getting carried away in the moment. As I said, it wouldn’t bother me at all if the show was on the other foot. Hell, someone spray painted The Duke insignia on our campus just before the Duke/UNC basketball game earlier in the same year. I didn’t cry about it then.

 

[Terror Beard]

Some of you act like the UNC football team spray painted your living room. It was the lockerroom at WW. It affected you in no way whatsoever (unless some of you are Building and Grounds Maintenance employees for DU). None of you were even in there when it happened so none of you really even know how it happened. I guess we all jump to conclusions sometimes. But to take as personal as some of you have apparently taken it is weird to me.

 

[ticket2ride04]

Some of you act like the UNC football team spray painted your living room. It was the lockerroom at WW. It affected you in no way whatsoever (unless some of you are Building and Grounds Maintenance employees for DU). None of you were even in there when it happened so none of you really even know how it happened. I guess we all jump to conclusions sometimes. But to take as personal as some of you have apparently taken it is weird to me.

Relax dude. I can see why they’re upset. But let’s work on building bridges, not burning them. We are guests over here and you’re new. Stick around and show we can be civil. There are some good dudes here.



Minus @Showenuff - he’s a wild one.