That is some people's stance. I think the term white privilege is invoked to justify vilifying whites. It provides cover.
Grayson and Trae Young get into a scuffle
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Thank you for the reply. A couple of things to clarify from my previous post:
I don't necessarily think all the Black players I mentioned have been treated unfairly by the media. I was using them as examples of how the media handles (and on harps on) guys who develop reps for being dirty players.
When I mentioned the Duke / white guy hate I thought I pointed out how the vast majority of that hate seems to come from white people. In that case, yes, race is a factor, but it is not a matter of racism. I have always thought it either stems from the fact that said white fans are angry that Duke seems to land high-level white players and their team doesn't or that seeing white guys excel at basketball is a reminder of missed opportunities in their own lives.
Finally, I fully believe that people of any race can find themselves on the receiving end bigotry and ignorance. I just happen to believe that a white person being called, "cracker" on the basketball court is a far cry from encountering discrimination or stereotyping at the hands of a supervisor, professor, law enforcement officer or even a just a majority group of people at school or work. One situation can simply be walked away from while the others, if a person wants to succeed in the United States, must be coped with and managed.
Perhaps I did. Honestly, invoking a story about Nathan Bedford Forest to use as an analogy kind of overtook any point I may have gotten from the story.
Just out of curiosity, did you read the post a few up where I attempted to give somewhat of an explanation of white privilege? If so, did you see anything in there that vilified whites?
Fair enough. The point was that is one thing to attack a man over the internet. It is all together another thing to do it up close and personal. It can lead to bloodshed and it does not take much to set if off.
I read it. I would have agreed with you 30 years ago. Times change. No you did not vilify whites. You were just stating your opinion. Not so long ago you would have been absolutely right.
It was often said that if Larry Bird was black,he would have just been known as another good player not one of the greatest of all time
Grayson can’t just walk away from his NBA situation. That’s his job, that’s his livelihood. You keep talking about the difficulties that come with being a minority. Well in the NBA, Grayson Allen is the minority. You dismissing his potential struggles because you don’t think it compares to the struggles a black man has to potentially go through, is no way to prove a point.
The way he is treated is a problem. I don’t need other people’s problems brought up, like that somehow means that now Grayson’s problems are insignificant.
I started posting in this thread because it is ridiculous to me that he’s already having this many issues in the NBA. And to me, racism is at the core of his problems.
If you are a white basketball player, be prepared to deal with racism because you are the minority on the basketball court. Unfortunately that is very often how life goes. Minorities are discriminated against.
Just so we're clear, are you telling me Grayson Allen's on-court issues throughout his career are the result of Black basketball players discriminating against him because he's white?
I thought the discussion about racism was dealing with the media's treatment of him, which is why I pointed out numerous examples of Black athletes treated the same way by the media in similar instances.
It was not often said. Isiah Thomas and Dennis Rodman made those comments after playoff loss to Boston. Blacks and whites in the league and in the media proceeded to blast the idiocy of those comments six ways from Sunday.
If memory serves me, Isiah quickly backed off the comments while Rodman never spoke of them again.
No I’m not saying that. There are a variety of reasons for Grayson’s on-court issues. And of course he was no choir boy on the court in college, so yes he has brought some of this on himself.
I’ve read your posts in this thread and some of your posts in other threads. A frequent theme in your posts, are minorities having to deal with discrimination and sometimes outright racism. I’m trying to point out to you that in this case, Grayson is the minority. So that same discrimination and racism that you so often speak of, it potentially applies to him in this situation.
I'll give credit where it's due. You stated in your initial post there was, "no doubt about it," that Allen is a victim of racism. You softened your stance with your most recent post by saying racism "potentially applies," to Grayson's treatment.
I have two big problems with the take that Grayson Allen is a victim of racism (aside from the general ridiculousness of the idea):
1) Why is this the first time this has ever been seen as an issue (i.e. He's being targeted by opposing players due to his skin color)? Trying to goad perceived-hotheaded players into doing something stupid is a long-standing tradition in sports. I state that because there are plenty of white players over the years who have been a hell of a lot better than Grayson will ever fantasize about being, yet those players managed to avoid frequent altercations and dust-ups.
And:
2) Why ignore the fact that Jock Landale (the player who came in on the end of the Trae Young altercation to shove Allen from behind) was white? All Young (the Black player) did was get tangled up with Allen. Grayson was the person who escalated by throwing a shoulder into Young. I would suggest taking off the homer shades if you saw anything other than that.
I didn’t start posting in this thread after the incident with Trae Young. I started posting in this thread after the incident with Wade Baldwin. An incident which saw Baldwin ejected for his actions.
Here is an undeniable fact to me: racism very much exists in this world and it works every which way. Sometimes it is overt. And sometimes it is a little more hidden.
I’ve been around all races of people my entire life. I’m not naive to the complex dynamics that race can potentially create between people.
Sorry Jtre, as ridiculous as you may think it is, I definitely think racism is playing a part in Grayson’s basketball career. I guess we are just gonna have to agree to disagree on this topic.
So again, let me attempt to understand your point and how you have arrived at it.
You believe that the first week of Grayson Allen's NBA career has been marred by institutional racism that is prevalent against whites in the predominantly Black NBA. You arrived at this conclusion by pointing out the Wade Baldwin incident, all the while ignoring Allen was the aggressor in the previous incident with Trae Young and also ignoring the player who actually shoved Allen during that incident was white. Am I on track?
If this is proof of the racism Grayson has had to endure, I can only point out how lucky Grayson was to trip Steven Santa Ana. After all, to my knowledge, every other altercation Grayson has instigated has been with a Black guy. I'd really hate to think that is because Grayson Allen is a racist.
The world has just gotten uncomfortable, irritating, and worse now with this race card with everything!!(both sides) making actually more racist people it seems
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I can see what Gill is saying and his point. Which I won’t elaborate because I feel uncomfortable talking about it. Probably be perceived some type of way Lol. Rememebr the Titans was a good movie. Can we go back to that ....it seems better then lol (the good parts)...what happen
I'm not perceiving Gill in any way. I'm simply reading what he writes and making sure I correctly understand it.
I'm curious though, if you think that Grayson is a victim of racism, do you also find it conceivable that his actions throughout his career could be driven by racist tendencies?
To be clear, I think both notions are ridiculous.
I know (you’re) not. It’s hard to actually say what I want to . I’ll just say he’s white, came from Duke, and in a black majority league, with a tripping reputation. Pretty much if the sides were flipped, and the league majority was white, I could see the same discussion from somebody. I don’t really think it’s racism though. I just think it could play some kind of part...maybe?? I can just see it is all I’m saying. Not agreeing to anything. And yea it could be driven just like this I guess. That’s the problem with the world. It’s all how someone precieves something . (Not saying you) Things go both ways. I think all this is ridiculous too, tired of it all, and should of took my bored self to bed lmao .
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Agree. I think it almost instinctive among mostly males. It relates to our tribal past when it was important to distinquish between us and them when it came down to territory and resources. I have certainly met black rascists as well as white. And it is hardly unique to blacks and whites. It can hold true within races, between ethnic groups. As whites hate other whites, blacks hate other blacks or asians hate other asians. Jtre is taking a peculiarly American view of rascism and looking at it through those lens. Perhaps a better term is ethnocentric. Allen is being piled on and he is an easy target in this day and age. And yes it is mostly whites doing it. It is still racism. They just think that they can get away with it. In a different social context, they would be directing their hate in another direction.
Landale in that particular situation was operating in the tribal mode. My team mate my tribe. It had nothing to do with black vs white. He should not have done that but that is basic instinct when you put men in groups, The USA army well understands that as did the Roman Empire. It was Landell that could of escalated the situation by involving more people. It was a dumb move that could have started a serious fight.
I appreciate your attempt to introduce new concepts involving male tribal mentality, the US Army and the Roman Empire into this discussion but that doesn't really address what I took issue with: People actually arguing that Grayson Allen has gotten involved in a couple dust-ups early in his career because he is a white man playing in the NBA, and as a result is the victim or racist attacks by Blacks.
I just summarized an opinion that was basically stated earlier. When you boil the multiple posts down to one sentence and strip away all the fluff, it sounds ridiculous.
I'll ask throw out one more question, in the hope of getting a legitimate answer:
If it's true that Grayson's altercations are the result of targeted racism why is he the first guy I can ever remember hearing this about in the NBA? From Bill Walton to Bill Laimbeer to Dirk Nowitzki and JJ Redick, I have never heard a single player say they got picked with on NBA courts and found themselves the victims of racist attacks that led to scuffles and altercations.
Hell, I don't know that I can even recall race being labeled an issue when Kermit Washington broke Rudy Tomjanovich's jaw, at least not by Rudy T.
Finally, since you introduced the tribal mindset into it doesn't that take the emphasis away from race? It would seem like people from another tribe (team) might simply be targeting Grayson because the perception of him (fair or not) is that of a temperamental rookie who plays dirty and can be thrown off his game by getting into his head?
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What we are complaining about are mostly whites picking on a white because of his race. Eventually, once the term, white privilege, is thrown around enough, they will realize that they are attacking them selves and stop attacking Allen so much. I am willing to discuss tribalism with you but it might be better to take it to a PM rather than a message board. The on court scuffle was nothing. Certainly not racial at all.
Yeah at this point I’m pretty much exhausted talking about all this. Seems like you and I are more or less on the same page here as far as our views go on this topic.
I don't think this thread really needs to continue.
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