Duval

[jwill133]

Any comparison involving a OAD and a 4 year player is an impossible one. Sadly, college basketball should be divided, pre 2006 and post 2006.

I do believe that if Tyus Jones played at Duke 4 years (why would he though?) than he COULD have been the greatest Duke PG ever, we will never know for sure.

 

[Laettner]

If Tyus was here last season, we maybe lose 2 games and cut down the nets.

 

[mo.st.dukie]

Any comparison involving a OAD and a 4 year player is an impossible one. Sadly, college basketball should be divided, pre 2006 and post 2006.
.

Eh, more like pre-early entry and post-early entry. There were plenty of OADs pre-2006, Duke had two of them. I feel like the late 90's through early 00's is when early entry really started to decimate college basketball. The 2006 rule actually improved the situation in my opinion. There is no doubt in my mind that had the rule not been put in place then we would have seen the number of high school draft entrants increase every year.

 

[jwill133]

Eh, more like pre-early entry and post-early entry. There were plenty of OADs pre-2006, Duke had two of them. I feel like the late 90's through early 00's is when early entry really started to decimate college basketball. The 2006 rule actually improved the situation in my opinion. There is no doubt in my mind that had the rule not been put in place then we would have seen the number of high school draft entrants increase every year.

Valid point. However, pre-2006, it was still very common for a player who is a first round lock to come back to school. Duke had many more of those than the 2 OAD's that Duke had.
Post 2006, I can think of 3, Singler, Nolan, and Grayson, who passed on a first round opportunity (Nolan very debatable too if he was ever a first rounder) to come back to school. Whereas, we have had what, 10+ OADs?

 

[HuffyJB]

I am not saying he is better than Bobby or Jwill, but freshman year vs freshman year, he ranks out pretty well...

With that specific caveat I can get behind it. I can't see putting him in the Duke pantheon above a two-time national champion and the NCAA's all-time assists leader, or a two-time National Player of the Year and a national champion. But if you are just asking which Duke PG had the best freshman season, it is hard not to say Tyus.

 

[Swervin_Irvin_Duke]

Duval can not dribble better than Kyrie, it is not even close. Tyus can get where ever he wants on the court also.

 

[dukiejay]

With that specific caveat I can get behind it. I can't see putting him in the Duke pantheon above a two-time national champion and the NCAA's all-time assists leader, or a two-time National Player of the Year and a national champion. But if you are just asking which Duke PG had the best freshman season, it is hard not to say Tyus.

Same here. And like I said, I love Tyus....it's just hard for me to say he meant more for Duke or has a better Duke resume than guys like Bobby and Jason. They're two guys who are top 10 Duke players of all-time (maybe top five) and they did it for multiple seasons. I think natural instinct is to remember what happened more recently a little better. But Tyus was only superhuman for one season....and damn it was fun.

I will say this, though....Tyus for two more years at Duke would have been scary, and it probably would have been enough to eclipse both of those guys, especially with another title. I never imagined, even with a title in 2015, that Tyus would be gone after a single season before he arrived on campus. But it worked out well for both parties.

 

[skysdad]

Same here. And like I said, I love Tyus....it's just hard for me to say he meant more for Duke or has a better Duke resume than guys like Bobby and Jason. They're two guys who are top 10 Duke players of all-time (maybe top five) and they did it for multiple seasons. I think natural instinct is to remember what happened more recently a little better. But Tyus was only superhuman for one season....and damn it was fun.

I will say this, though....Tyus for two more years at Duke would have been scary, and it probably would have been enough to eclipse both of those guys, especially with another title. I never imagined, even with a title in 2015, that Tyus would be gone after a single season before he arrived on campus. But it worked out well for both parties.

I like what you are saying here. One of the problems is as time goes by not only great pg's seem to fade into history but other players that played different positions do also. Way to young to remember the great Dick Groat but what an athlete he was . All- American in BB and a major league MVP also. Now I know he played in the 50's a dribbled with one hand but if he had been born 60 years later I'm sure he would be able to handle the ball with both hands, have a cross over and have many of the talents pg's do today. Bob Verga was a very good pg in his day and if he were playing today with the 3 point line we would all be freaking out from where he shoots the ball. Tommy Amaker to me at the time was Duke's perfect pg. He got the ball to those scorers Dawkins, Alarie and Henderson and if needed to score himself. He also got down to some serious defense. Now if I had my choice Hurley would be my permanent Duke pg. It's been close to 25 years since he played at Duke and there's a lot of fans here who are already too young to see him play. I'm sorry you missed him. He had great handles left and right, could shoot and score when needed, he got the ball down the court really fast, knew what defense meant and was the toughest player ever to wear a Duke uniform. Laettner, Hill and whoever else played with him were better because of him. Like I said those of you who did not see him play you missed something special. Hurley has began to slowly fade away. I'm not trying to take anything away from Williams, Irving, Tyus or Duval. They are all special but all of the old geezers I have mentioned could play very well with the way the game has evolved. They were athletes. They were basketball players. OFC

 

[ttk2002]

I know I’m forming this opinion off of mixed videos but Tre Jones looks like a better athlete than Tyus and his mid-range pull jumper going to his left looks very smooth.

 

[LTDukeFan]

Any comparison involving a OAD and a 4 year player is an impossible one. Sadly, college basketball should be divided, pre 2006 and post 2006.

I do believe that if Tyus Jones played at Duke 4 years (why would he though?) than he COULD have been the greatest Duke PG ever, we will never know for sure.

I am going to give that a strong maybe. It will be forever hard to duplicate Hurley's contribution or stats.

The thing that I see in both players is an iron-willed focus. It seemed hard to rattle their cage.

 

[LTDukeFan]

I like what you are saying here. One of the problems is as time goes by not only great pg's seem to fade into history but other players that played different positions do also. Way to young to remember the great Dick Groat but what an athlete he was . All- American in BB and a major league MVP also. Now I know he played in the 50's a dribbled with one hand but if he had been born 60 years later I'm sure he would be able to handle the ball with both hands, have a cross over and have many of the talents pg's do today. Bob Verga was a very good pg in his day and if he were playing today with the 3 point line we would all be freaking out from where he shoots the ball. Tommy Amaker to me at the time was Duke's perfect pg. He got the ball to those scorers Dawkins, Alarie and Henderson and if needed to score himself. He also got down to some serious defense. Now if I had my choice Hurley would be my permanent Duke pg. It's been close to 25 years since he played at Duke and there's a lot of fans here who are already too young to see him play. I'm sorry you missed him. He had great handles left and right, could shoot and score when needed, he got the ball down the court really fast, knew what defense meant and was the toughest player ever to wear a Duke uniform. Laettner, Hill and whoever else played with him were better because of him. Like I said those of you who did not see him play you missed something special. Hurley has began to slowly fade away. I'm not trying to take anything away from Williams, Irving, Tyus or Duval. They are all special but all of the old geezers I have mentioned could play very well with the way the game has evolved. They were athletes. They were basketball players. OFC

I think Hurley's biggest assets were his basketball IQ, his family, and his environment. Having a Hall-of-Fame coach dad and constantly competing with his brother on and off the court, along with playing in the greater NYC area is hard duplicate.

 

[DukeJim99]

I have a hard time putting Tyus under anyone. I know, I know... Bobby, Jwill, Amaker... but man, Tyus was just so insanely clutch. I am not saying he is better than Bobby or Jwill, but freshman year vs freshman year, he ranks out pretty well...

He does, but as others have hinted at, it's hard to compare someone from the OAD era to those who preceded it. As a freshman, Hurley had to play against all of the best players his age and up to three-four years older than him. For Tyus and others of this generation, the talent pool in college is watered down. As a freshman, he wasn't playing against the best 20, 21, and 22 year olds on the planet. Those guys were already in the NBA. Not true for Hurley.

But hey - I can't argue with your Tyus love. He was phenomenal.

 

[krzyzewskiville]

Kyrie's injury will always have me wondering what if. I remember dominating a good K-State team that year and hearing the announcers say Duke is the best team in the country and it's not even close.

I was at that game sitting court side. Kyrie was out of this world in that game.

 

[dukehokie]

I'd almost say instead of looking at pre and post-2006, what if we look at individual seasons for some of these guys. Tyus had a season that every bit came close to rivaling Bobby and Jason's best seasons.

Body of work, there's no contest who stands at the top, but season for season, Tyus stands with and above a lot of Duke greats.

 

[Mac9192]

Hurley, Jason Williams and Tyus are all great ones. If we're talking about Coach K era, it's awful unfair to not at least talk about Johnny Dawkins. He came when K wasn't the K we're used to. He was special and was a huge reason Duke became the Duke we follow. He started it all

 

[skysdad]

Well this thread is about Duval and I'm excited to have him. It would be great to have him for a couple of years just to watch his development. I understand we have a good shot a a couple of top pg's in 2018 but it would be nice to have a top notch pg to hang around a couple of years buts that's gone forever and for that reason I can't choose a one and done pg other any other position player as Duke's best. But Hurley, Williams and all our other great guards of the past are gone and this is Duval's thread and I hope he has the maturity and mindset to run this team. You go Duval. You got the ball.

 

[youngman42]

Yea they are /were better lmao let this guy play first please

Try reading a post sometime before responding. It might actually make it appear you're sober.

Nothing was said in that post about quality of play. It referred to athletic explosiveness - which can be seen regardless of the level at which one is playing. Kyrie and JWill have proven themselves (one at the pro level; one at college) to be great players. But, while both have great quickness - Duval has serious athletic explosion. You don't have to watch him at a particular level to see that. If you bother to watch - which is unlikely.

 

[Quavarius]

I know I’m forming this opinion off of mixed videos but Tre Jones looks like a better athlete than Tyus and his mid-range pull jumper going to his left looks very smooth.

Tre's stock has risen so fast. Last year, he was looked at as a legacy recruit. Now, he's being talked about as an elite recruit that may be better than his older brother. I'm glad he's worked his butt off and Duke so happen to be an early leader for his services.

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

Try reading a post sometime before responding. It might actually make it appear you're sober.

Nothing was said in that post about quality of play. It referred to athletic explosiveness - which can be seen regardless of the level at which one is playing. Kyrie and JWill have proven themselves (one at the pro level; one at college) to be great players. But, while both have great quickness - Duval has serious athletic explosion. You don't have to watch him at a particular level to see that. If you bother to watch - which is unlikely.

You said they arnt on Duvals level..Ur right. ur exact words didn't say that ...I guess ur saying kyrie and jay can't jump then lol unless you have something you wanna really really wanna add perhaps ?

 

[dukiejay]

I know I’m forming this opinion off of mixed videos but Tre Jones looks like a better athlete than Tyus and his mid-range pull jumper going to his left looks very smooth.

Trust me, as someone who has had the pleasure of watching Tyus and Tre up close a lot over the years, Tre isn't as far off from his brother as many thought a year ago. Tyus kind of took things by storm when he became the best player on his high school team as an eighth-grader and freshman....Tre took a little more time to develop. I hate saying Tre has the same upside or 'stones' as his brother, but the gap is narrowing each passing day. Tre, like Tyus, is a special, special talent. We'd be very fortunate to get him in the fold.

 

[pisgah101]

Trust me, as someone who has had the pleasure of watching Tyus and Tre up close a lot over the years, Tre isn't as far off from his brother as many thought a year ago. Tyus kind of took things by storm when he became the best player on his high school team as an eighth-grader and freshman....Tre took a little more time to develop. I hate saying Tre has the same upside or 'stones' as his brother, but the gap is narrowing each passing day. Tre, like Tyus, is a special, special talent. We'd be very fortunate to get him in the fold.

We still in the best shape for him?

 

[dukephysics]

We still in the best shape for him?

I can't imagine anyone is in better shape.

 

[dukiejay]

We still in the best shape for him?

Yes, I think so. An assistant coach at Minnesota told my friend he does believe UCLA is player in Tre's recruitment, but still thinks it would be a long shot for them to upset Duke. Tre will likely use the same approach as his brother and take his visits this fall....then officially announce something in November.

 

[Liftee]

Hurley was very different from JWill and probably Duval in that he was the band leader but not the soloist very often. What made him transcendent was that he was a skinny little runt who made and forced everyone around him to be better and to compete harder than everyone else. No question in my mind that he was less athletic and talented than the other great point guards Coach K has had. But in a big game? He's the guy I'd want (with Tyus coming off the bench).

 

[DukefanKY]

No one loves Tyus more than me, but he's not in the same discussion as Hurley and Williams, IMO. The people saying otherwise probably didn't get to watch Bobby and Jason at Duke. They were special...and for more than one year.

+2 for me......

 

[LTDukeFan]

....But Hurley, Williams and all our other great guards of the past are gone and this is Duval's thread and I hope he has the maturity and mindset to run this team. You go Duval. You got the ball.

Amen.

Duval -- thankful you're a Blue Devil! NOW have some fun and light it up!!

 

[topps coach]

I know I’m forming this opinion off of mixed videos but Tre Jones looks like a better athlete than Tyus and his mid-range pull jumper going to his left looks very smooth.

Hopefully that Tre can come in and continue the Jones tradition of great PG'S

 

[christophero]

Tre's stock has risen so fast. Last year, he was looked at as a legacy recruit. Now, he's being talked about as an elite recruit that may be better than his older brother. I'm glad he's worked his butt off and Duke so happen to be an early leader for his services.

We don't even need Tre if Duval comes back for his sophomore year. Before everyone loses their minds that is a joke.

 

[topps coach]

Hurley was very different from JWill and probably Duval in that he was the band leader but not the soloist very often. What made him transcendent was that he was a skinny little runt who made and forced everyone around him to be better and to compete harder than everyone else. No question in my mind that he was less athletic and talented than the other great point guards Coach K has had. But in a big game? He's the guy I'd want (with Tyus coming off the bench).

Still would not sleep on Bobby's athleticism.I saw Bobby playing against Wojo in the summer at the Duke Basketball Camp after he had his accident. Bobby due to his injuries was never the same athlete as before and Wojo was the NDPOY and Bobby went by him at will.I still get chills when I think about the three he hit against UNLV

 

[DukeDenver]

 

[LTDukeFan]

Still would not sleep on Bobby's athleticism.I saw Bobby playing against Wojo in the summer at the Duke Basketball Camp after he had his accident. Bobby due to his injuries was never the same athlete as before and Wojo was the NDPOY and Bobby went by him at will.I still get chills when I think about the three he hit against UNLV

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/watch-grant-hill-recalls-beating-the-dream-team-in-a-scrimmage/

This is the game that I wish I could see.

"Houston hit 10 threes in the scrimmage. They couldn't do anything with Webber. I'm telling you, Webber was killing these guys. We all had our moments. Bobby Hurley though, they couldn't keep him out of the paint," Hill said. "I have video of it. We're going to do a documentary on it." -- Grant Hill

 

[dukehokie]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/watch-grant-hill-recalls-beating-the-dream-team-in-a-scrimmage/

This is the game that I wish I could see.

"Houston hit 10 threes in the scrimmage. They couldn't do anything with Webber. I'm telling you, Webber was killing these guys. We all had our moments. Bobby Hurley though, they couldn't keep him out of the paint," Hill said. "I have video of it. We're going to do a documentary on it." -- Grant Hill

The Dream Team and coaches will say that game was bupkis. The team was losing focus, Daly never made a single adjustment and he sat Jordan, Drexler and Barkley most of that scrimmage. Bird and Magic barely even played. Laettner probably got more minutes in that game than he did the entire Olympics. But they won, so they can say it hahah.

 

[pisgah101]

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My gosh he looks incredible

 

[LTDukeFan]

My gosh he looks incredible

KI handles and Westbrook athleticism....yeah that seems like a winning combo.

 

[QC Dukie]

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Looks like we are in for a treat.

 

[LTDukeFan]

The Dream Team and coaches will say that game was bupkis. The team was losing focus, Daly never made a single adjustment and he sat Jordan, Drexler and Barkley most of that scrimmage. Bird and Magic barely even played. Laettner probably got more minutes in that game than he did the entire Olympics. But they won, so they can say it hahah.

What I have read, the players were pretty impressed by the college players. Still like to see it -- tape don't lie.

 

[dukehokie]

What I have read, the players were pretty impressed by the college players. Still like to see it -- tape don't lie.

I would too. At the end of the day they're still NBA players, Daly or not.

 

[dukehokie]

What I have read, the players were pretty impressed by the college players. Still like to see it -- tape don't lie.

Not the '92 squad but here's the select team playing Dream Team 2.

 

[dukehokie]

What I have read, the players were pretty impressed by the college players. Still like to see it -- tape don't lie.

And here is the part in the NBA TV Dream Team documentary about the select game.

 

[Dukesince90]

Bobby was a

And here is the part in the NBA TV Dream Team documentary about the select game.

View embedded media

Thanks for sharing. I had not seen this documentary. I appreciated the honesty of the players and coaches. I loved Coach K's comment, "we (the assistant coaches) would of probably screwed it up." Contrary to those at THR and RR, he is a humble man.