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Duke guys crushing the NBA combine

I struggle to see a scenario where Grayson isn’t a successful nba player....barring injuries, of course.
I don’t see him being good at the next level. I think he’ll struggle to get his shot off and will foul a bunch.

Maybe he’ll end up in some perfect situation where he can find a niche off the bench. He sure will give 100%.
 
He wasn't AS bad. At least, not in the zone. He was still plenty bad in the man defense. And it the zone, he was helped by better rim defenders in Carter and Bagley.
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That said, one of the reasons we had to switch to a zone was that teams were starting to figure out that a PnR run by the guys being guarded by Allen and Bagley was good for about 90% effectiveness wrt getting points. Bags wasn't the only culprit there.
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Even so, Allen wasn't a good defender last year, even as a senior. He was better than in previous years. But being better on D than in his soph and jr years isn't a huge compliment. He was, at best, mediocre on D last year.
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The upsetting thing is that Allen has all the physical tools to be a very good defender. The effort on D was never present. Which, to me, is the fault of the coaching staff.

Grayson lacked effort on D???? Really? Have they ever seen how hard he plays? Maybe he lacked some fundamentals because the athleticism is there and so was the effort. I think he was 2nd in the ACC in steals. Not saying he was a great defender, but he plays super hard... that is not the problem... Maybe just footwork and fundamentals...
 
I don’t see him being good at the next level. I think he’ll struggle to get his shot off and will foul a bunch.

Maybe he’ll end up in some perfect situation where he can find a niche off the bench. He sure will give 100%.

For players like Grayson (and, really, the bottom 90% of the players in the NBA), it is all about team fit.
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Allen would be great on a team like Philly. That team has clearly defined roles, and rim protection behind him. And they need shooters.
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He needs a situation that is desperate for what he can do, which is make threes (theoretically). But it needs to be a team that is already strong on defense, because that is not a strong suit.
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Even a team desperate for perimeter shooting, but one that isn't strong defensively (esp WRT rim protection) wouldn't be a good fit. Allen would score some, but he'd be worse on defense.
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I think some NBA teams will demand that he play better on D or he won't get on the court. This will be very good for him.
 
Grayson lacked effort on D???? Really? Have they ever seen how hard he plays? Maybe he lacked some fundamentals because the athleticism is there and so was the effort. I think he was 2nd in the ACC in steals. Not saying he was a great defender, but he plays super hard... that is not the problem... Maybe just footwork and fundamentals...

I've seen how hard he plays on offense. I've seen him gamble on D, as opposed to playing smart and hard.
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The narrative among Duke fans is that Duke switched to a zone mostly because of the frosh bigs, but especially Bagley. Which has a lot of merit as an opinion. But that wasn't the only reason.
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In the M2M, opposing teams figured out a great strategy vs Duke. Spread out the floor, and run a PnR by whoever was being guarded by Bags and Allen. The end result of that was a great look at the basket, every time.
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Allen was better this year on D. No doubt about it. But he was horrible on D for the previous 2 years, with not enough data to form an opinion of his D as a frosh.
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Hustling after he got beaten, badly, on D doesn't equate to "effort." He was frequently slow on rotations, and had trouble staying in front of anyone, despite testing very well athletically. Further, he would gamble and try to jump passing lanes. When that works, great, because it leads to a run out. When it doesn't work, it leads to one guy being badly out of position, and 4 on 5 hoops. And, as mentioned, he didn't exactly rush back after a gamble.
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Yes, he would hustle around some, or even often, on D. He had too. Usually him rushing towards someone, often futilely, happened immediately after he'd been beaten, lost his guy, or blown a defensive rotation. He hustled to save face, and give the appearance of effort. Real effort would have involved not getting obliterated in the first place. Real effort would have involved knowing, and meeting, his defensive obligations within the scheme by at least, oh, say, the end of his sophomore season.
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Luke was the worst defender to ever start multiple games for Coach K. Allen was the second worst defender to ever start multiple games for K. And whoever is number 3 is still a lot better on D than Allen was. He was bad. And Luke at least had the excuse of being relatively slow and un-athletic. Allen is, ostensibly, pretty athletic. His failures on D could ONLY have been because of effort.
 
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I've seen how hard he plays on offense. I've seen him gamble on D, as opposed to playing smart and hard.
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The narrative among Duke fans is that Duke switched to a zone mostly because of the frosh bigs, but especially Bagley. Which has a lot of merit as an opinion. But that wasn't the only reason.
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In the M2M, opposing teams figured out a great strategy vs Duke. Spread out the floor, and run a PnR by whoever was being guarded by Bags and Allen. The end result of that was a great look at the basket, every time.
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Allen was better this year on D. No doubt about it. But he was horrible on D for the previous 2 years, with not enough data to form an opinion of his D as a frosh.
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Hustling after he got beaten, badly, on D doesn't equate to "effort." He was frequently slow on rotations, and had trouble staying in front of anyone, despite testing very well athletically. Further, he would gamble and try to jump passing lanes. When that works, great, because it leads to a run out. When it doesn't work, it leads to one guy being badly out of position, and 4 on 5 hoops. And, as mentioned, he didn't exactly rush back after a gamble.
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Yes, he would hustle around some, or even often, on D. He had too. Usually him rushing towards someone, often futilely, happened immediately after he'd been beaten, lost his guy, or blown a defensive rotation. He hustled to save face, and give the appearance of effort. Real effort would have involved not getting obliterated in the first place. Real effort would have involved knowing, and meeting, his defensive obligations within the scheme by at least, oh, say, the end of his sophomore season.
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Luke was the worst defender to ever start multiple games for Coach K. Allen was the second worst defender to ever start multiple games for K. And whoever is number 3 is still a lot better on D than Allen was. He was bad. And Luke at least had the excuse of being relatively slow and un-athletic. Allen is, ostensibly, pretty athletic. His failures on D could ONLY have been because of effort.
My god, will you and a few others stop this nonsense? Allen was not a lock down defender, that's not earth shattering news. The reality is, and read carefully here, our freshmen were horrible in man, so K put Allen at top. K's reason, unless he's lying, was so Grayson could communicate to Bagley and crew.
Let's be honest here. Bagley was, for his size and athletic ability, the worst defender as a star freshmen K has had in a while. You guys rave about his 21 & 11 offensive numbers, which are true, but his defense was worse than his offense was good.
Take Allen off this past team and we don't get out of the first weekend of the ncaa, and we probably finish 5th or 6th in the conference.
Bagley will make millions at the pro level, may have a chance at being an all star. But his one year at Duke was 50/50. Great on one side of the ball, and just as bad on the other side.
 
I agree that it is more of a communication problem on D and good man to man must be learned as a team, but each player must have good individual skills also...

Grayson communicated better in the zone and that helped them play better D.

I also agree that MB35 was very bad on D... I blame a lot of that on him not being taught how to lay D at his many stops and especially on the AAU circuit. If you look at old games the opposition was able to shoot over him at will. The blocks he did get were more off the ball chase down blocks. His hand wasn't up quick enough, i.e. his hands were too low and therefore could not get up in time. Just a bad habit that has been hard to break.
 
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Grayson apparently performed very well at the CAA pro day today. The same one that secured Luke's lottery pick. I think he goes first round. I watched his around the world and he went 20 or 21 out of 25. The guy can shoot. The NBA needs shooters.
 
Yep, don’t count him out just yet, he’s impressing a lot of people right now.
 
I've seen how hard he plays on offense. I've seen him gamble on D, as opposed to playing smart and hard.
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The narrative among Duke fans is that Duke switched to a zone mostly because of the frosh bigs, but especially Bagley. Which has a lot of merit as an opinion. But that wasn't the only reason.
.
In the M2M, opposing teams figured out a great strategy vs Duke. Spread out the floor, and run a PnR by whoever was being guarded by Bags and Allen. The end result of that was a great look at the basket, every time.
.
Allen was better this year on D. No doubt about it. But he was horrible on D for the previous 2 years, with not enough data to form an opinion of his D as a frosh.
.
Hustling after he got beaten, badly, on D doesn't equate to "effort." He was frequently slow on rotations, and had trouble staying in front of anyone, despite testing very well athletically. Further, he would gamble and try to jump passing lanes. When that works, great, because it leads to a run out. When it doesn't work, it leads to one guy being badly out of position, and 4 on 5 hoops. And, as mentioned, he didn't exactly rush back after a gamble.
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Yes, he would hustle around some, or even often, on D. He had too. Usually him rushing towards someone, often futilely, happened immediately after he'd been beaten, lost his guy, or blown a defensive rotation. He hustled to save face, and give the appearance of effort. Real effort would have involved not getting obliterated in the first place. Real effort would have involved knowing, and meeting, his defensive obligations within the scheme by at least, oh, say, the end of his sophomore season.
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Luke was the worst defender to ever start multiple games for Coach K. Allen was the second worst defender to ever start multiple games for K. And whoever is number 3 is still a lot better on D than Allen was. He was bad. And Luke at least had the excuse of being relatively slow and un-athletic. Allen is, ostensibly, pretty athletic. His failures on D could ONLY have been because of effort.

I think you are too closely equating effort and execution. Allen had some undeniable issues at times with the latter, but IMO never had a problem with the the former.
 
I think you are too closely equating effort and execution. Allen had some undeniable issues at times with the latter, but IMO never had a problem with the the former.

I can admit that your opinion is valid, even if I don't completely agree. I feel that better effort on D would have resulted in better execution. Maybe that higher level of effort should have been in practice, or the off-season. But I have a hard time believing that consistently high, or even consistently SUFFICIENT, levels of effort on D would have resulted in such a high level of failed execution.
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Tyler Thornton was a guy that tried hard all the time on D, wasn't always successful. He knew what to do, and tried to do it, consistently. But he was too small and too slow to really execute at a high level. Grayson has all the attributes needed to be a high level defender. The fact that he was never even a mediocre defender has to come down to effort, be it in practice or in the actual games.
 
Grayson apparently performed very well at the CAA pro day today. The same one that secured Luke's lottery pick. I think he goes first round. I watched his around the world and he went 20 or 21 out of 25. The guy can shoot. The NBA needs shooters.
He can shoot lights out, but that set shot is low and slow. I worry about the perception of his mechanics.
 
THosae would be great landing places for Trent and Duval. BOth would make the roster in those situations.
 
He can shoot lights out, but that set shot is low and slow. I worry about the perception of his mechanics.

Further, his defensive issues over the last few years will come up more. I just don't see him going first round. It could happen, and I wouldn't be blindsided if it did, I just don't see a first round selection
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Allen is the sort of high profile, polarizing, known commodity that teams use as a smokescreen for their true intentions.
 
Further, his defensive issues over the last few years will come up more. I just don't see him going first round. It could happen, and I wouldn't be blindsided if it did, I just don't see a first round selection
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Allen is the sort of high profile, polarizing, known commodity that teams use as a smokescreen for their true intentions.
So, low profile, unknown commodities are what they are really after? Seriously?
 
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So, low profile, unknown commodities are what they are really after? Seriously?

My point being that Allen is a known commodity, which is both good and bad. Some teams are more risk adverse, which works in Allen's favor, and some teams are more risk seeking, which could work against Allen.
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I genuinely think teams DGAF about his tripping issues. But his shooting is decent, and his D is bad. Some risk adverse teams will see in Allen a player that can contribute, on some level, even on most playoff teams. But the odds of him ever growing into a top tier defender and quality shooter are relatively low. So, known floor, but with limited upside.

Conversely, there are some guards at the end of the first round with the potential to be plus defenders and plus shooters. These guys could get to be better than Allen, but not for a few years. If it happens.
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Allen's defensive struggles remain the anchor around his neck. Improved play on that side of the ball, even with his relative defensive issues, would have secured a mid 20s landing spot.
 
Latest mock draft has Allen going somewhere between 25-30. Would love for him to go to the Lakers, 76ers, Celtics, or the Warriors.
 
Latest mock draft has Allen going somewhere between 25-30. Would love for him to go to the Lakers, 76ers, Celtics, or the Warriors.

Would love for him to end up at Philly. Shot blockers behind him, a desperate need for three point shooting, and clearly defined roles that would ensure Allen focused on what he is good at and cutting down on what he isn't so good at.
 
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