From what I gather there was tension all year he didnt play enough from Jackson's dad. I dont think he ever had any intention of returning.
OFC
OFC
DRAFT NIGHT
- Thread starter Quavarius
- Start date
You have good observations reference the quick hug/handshake, it was definitely going thru the motions....OFC
I would be pissed if I was Frank. Playing behind Matt Jones last year who was an offensive liability and couldn't rebound from the wing. Frank was good later in the season while Matt Jones was dreadful most of the year.
With Duval, Trent Jr and Grayson coming back Frank probably thought he had to move on especially after the combine.
Frank would have been one of our more athletic players next year. He would have gone in the first round in a weaker draft without a plethora of great guards.
He will still get a guaranteed contract next year like most players picked 31 - 39. He has the talent and the strength and size to make an NBA roster.
With Duval, Trent Jr and Grayson coming back Frank probably thought he had to move on especially after the combine.
Frank would have been one of our more athletic players next year. He would have gone in the first round in a weaker draft without a plethora of great guards.
He will still get a guaranteed contract next year like most players picked 31 - 39. He has the talent and the strength and size to make an NBA roster.
Last edited:
Except that Matt Jones was not "dreadful" most of the year. I do think Frank should've been given a bigger role, but he made some mental mistakes, even at the end of the year. His passing kinda sucked. His defense was underrated though. I certainly don't think he earned the right to be so salty toward the program. He comes off as entitled. Positive attitudes are important in team sports. It's one thing to be frustrated with your PT, but are we supposed to believe K is doing it to be mean to the young man? K had his reasons. It's hard to sit here and say K doesn't give guys a fair shot.
We all have our views, and I simply feel we would have been even more efficient scoring the ball w/Jackson at the 1. Matt IMO was an ideal sub off the bench for Grayson/Frank/Luke, and as another poster said was ideally suited for a "Nate Britt" type role. His intangibles are immeasurable, but for pure talent and putting the best 5 on the court- it should have been Frank IMO. I think he has a lot of basketball ahead of him, and I think Matt may be a very good coach...OFC
lol I have no problem admitting I was wrong like a few of y'all. Hurt and missed the 1st by 1 pick hmm
Matt Jones...... ughhh what was k thinking ..bit us at the end SC had a great game plan In forcing frank to make decisions..not enough playing time hurt him
I have nothing to admit I was wrong about. I said from day one, there was a 0% chance Frank would be a 1st round pick.
Thanks Denver and I realize its a very sensitive issue. Everybody likes Matt Jones- what a role model for our youth! OFC
He's no PJ Herringbone, that's for sure.
If he would have made it by one pick, Psychosis would have made 14 threads about it, with the first 8 comments in each thread being him talking to himself.
Frank had as good of a combine as he possibly could have had and he was still the 31st pick (11th guard).
Funny thing is my prediction was still closer then yours. Even thogh technically he was a 2nd round pick lmao idc tho u win moving on
I thought the same exact thing. Brushed by Scheyer but could have been due to the drop. Frank is an amazing athlete entering a league full of amazing athletes. Being an undersized two guard is quite tough.
Viewed the rookie salary scale, Frank lost millions over the next four years by not returning but a 2nd rounder can earn more than late 1st rounders if they excel early and hit the open market(KJ McDaniels). Just no guarantees.
I still have no complaints about a senior Matt starting over a freshman Frank. Frank was given opportunities throughout the year, and was dreadful in most ACC road games, he finally got it going in March.
The only complaint I have about last season is not giving our bigs more of a chance...Giles, Marques,and Javin mainly.
The only complaint I have about last season is not giving our bigs more of a chance...Giles, Marques,and Javin mainly.
I can definitely see the argument for the bigs. I may not entirely agree, but I do think it's something that could be debated.
But Frank? He played 25 minutes per game. He really can't have a lot to gripe about. He proved he's great at initiating his offense, but he wasn't great facilitating for others. No one on our team was....but Frank wasn't even the best. Grayson was better. Luke is a better passer too.
And playing time for next season shouldn't have been an issue. He was going to get 30+ a night almost by default.
The problem I have with the Frank debate is he was never truly given the keys to run point until Grayson was injured. I'm just of opinion had he been point from the start with Grayson and Luke as off guards, team would have been more dangerous. Matt, to me, played too much. He was a good team player, glad he played for Duke, but I saw him as a 15-20 minute guy max.
The team may have been doomed anyway, and this debate meaningless, but I compare Frank as an automatic rifle and Matt as a single shot
He's certainly more talented. I think we can agree on that. However, the raw numbers just don't equate to him being a clear better fit on last season's team.
Matt had three times the number of steals as Frank. He had more assists than him too, despite Frank playing with the ball in his hands more. (Jayson Tatum even had more assists than Frank.) Frank by far fouled at the highest rate on the team, which clearly caused his minutes to 'only' be 25 per night. Lastly, Frank's assist to turnover ratio was the worst of the seven guys who played our 'major' minutes.
Was Frank both a better shooter and offensive weapon? Yes. Everywhere else he was what many would call a 'raw' freshman when talking intangibles. Like I said, a major contributing factor to his minutes being where they were at had to do with inability to stay out of foul trouble.
Poor shooting is extremely black and white, it's polarizing and it over shadows nearly everything else when it's going great or when it's going poorly. Matt didn't shoot well last year. He did everything else pretty solid and better than Frank.
Bottom line though to me though much like Thornton- he was a freshman that got 25+ mpg & still left, even though both would have benefitted from another year. And I'm not one to say you can't develop in the league. That tells me what I need to know.
It's easy to criticize Frank for his mediocre point guard abilities. What do you think his assists per game would have been had he had the whole season running the point. A talented athlete with good ball handling skills, that didn't do a bad job running the team over the last 6-7 games. Now imagine that same kid being able to be coached as the point guard by the staff back in October. Hard for me to think that a staff this talented, the same staff that coached Tatum to the player he was at the end of the season, couldn't have helped Jackson be a better distributor of the ball. Didn't he start at the beginning of the season, then go to 6th man once Tatum came, then start again at end of season? If so, that's a lot of adjustments made by a player of his caliber, who probably didn't like that.
Certainly have to agree w/you per the staff. Counting Coach K we have how many ex pgs on staff??? Lol, it is interesting in retrospect to wonder if it might have made any difference if FJ had been given the ball at the 1 in preseason practice.
Perhaps that was the source of the inner turmoil we heard hints of all season? Frank and/or his dad felt he should have been ahead of Matt?...Merely speculation on a message board by myself, but I think we all know there was some tension. JMO....
OFC
Frank had what I call Flash to his game. As said many times, Matt had an Old School flavor to his game. Most fans fall in love with offense. Frank did come on strong at season's end, but I felt like as a whole Matt was needed more. We had some scorers, we just lacked defense.
This sort of fits into this thread. I've been watching wrestling since I was a kid (30+ years) and I'm watching WWE Monday Night Raw right now and as it went to commercial, the announcers said that Lavar Ball and all of his sons are going to be interviewed coming up next on a segment called Miz TV. Monday Night Raw is in Los Angeles. This should be interesting. lol
I couldn't mod about why frank left. Been going over and over it and I can't come up with why Frank left. The only one that makes sense to me is that he does see himself as a NBA pg and wanted to play that exclusively at Duke next year but with Duval on the way he knew he would not but at he time he made his decision it seems like Duval had not made his commitment yet. Hope it works out for him. Would love to see him become a star but now he has to rehab that injury and get off to a slow start. I guess he only knows. OFC
I wish Sgt. Slaughter would come out of retirement and just walk up to Lavar and just Moma slap him.
OFCMan, I just flipped to the WWE crap. I guess the Balls want everyone to hate them. They're doing a good job of it. I guess if he flops, they're goon a try to get him in the WWE.
They might be a good fit because here lately WWE has gotten about as ridiculous as Lavar Ball has been. The only reason I really still watch WWE is because there's not really much else on Monday nights lol
I think Frank is CLEARLY the more gifted player offensively. Better fit for the last year's team? Not sure. Frank scored better than Matt the last six games. That's it. His A/TO ratio was worse than his season average. In fact, he had seven assists and 12 turnovers the last six games. That's not very good. He also played more minutes than Matt in that timeframe....Matt still had over three times as many steals. If you're only watching scoring, then I agree with you, though.
See the numbers above. Frank was a good scorer the last six games. He wasn't a point guard. His distribution numbers were actually worse. (Matt actually had 14 assists to Frank's seven). Besides, I tend to think a staff as talented the one we have, probably gave Frank opportunities to be the point guard. But not even the best staffs can make a player something they aren't overnight. Frank just wasn't a very good point guard....but he was a really gifted offensive player who probably would have scored mid-teens next season playing alongside a true point guard.
How do we really know he wasn't? Again, I think the staff made mistakes last season....I just don't feel Frank was a glaring one at all. If Duke had had a true point guard and Frank didn't play, or didn't play more than Matt, then I could see the argument. Right now it seems pretty hollow. I'm hardly a basketball affictionado....but I could tell Kyle Singler wasn't a center and I can tell that today Frank Jackson isn't a point guard. Hopefully he can become somewhat steady there....because right now he's undersized to be just a shooting guard in the NBA.
He looked pretty good in the NBA Combine at point, and I think in time w/his athletic ability and smarts he will make it as a pg. You asked if I was talking about offense only, and by and large I was. I think last year's Duke team needed as much "O" on the floor as possible, and one above average defender wasnt going to make that much difference. The 2016-17 Duke team will be remembered more as one that could outscore teams more than one that could stop teams.
I have great respect for the numbers you crunched though, and A/TO is a very viable stat. On a lighter note I agree w/you about Singler!
OFC
I have great respect for the numbers you crunched though, and A/TO is a very viable stat. On a lighter note I agree w/you about Singler!
OFC
Similar threads
