Yes you know who.....here’s a hint
Pick n roll
Beginning to wonder if Trevon enjoyed his time here
- Thread starter DukeRulesBasketball
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Pick n roll
Of course he is allowed to speak his mind and critique all he wants. But his words carry far more weight than random ass Duke fans on Twitter.
This thread has run its course. We are just repeating the same 2-3 perspectives.
According to random ass Duke fans, he’s a nobody anyway. So.....
I wish him well. He played for and when we got him we were glad we did. I was a little disappointed in his play sometimes. Not really know if he understood his role. Wish he just wouldn't say anything at all. but he's a kid. OFC
If your opinion is “I’m going to defend Duval no matter what.” That’s actually not an opinion, that’s called a bias.
This is the bad that comes with the good. No one should be surprised for things like this to happen, especially when you have 3 alphas, or at least they think they are, then you bring in one toward the end of the summer. That's a lot of mouths for K to feed and keep happy.
Let's be real here too. He's 71. It's impressive that a man his age can relate as well as he can to kids 50+ years younger than he is. I know he says he feels good, but these last two seasons have got to have taken their toll on him, and not just physically.
I also can't help but wonder if K wanted to go a slightly different route with recruiting. Just wondering if he felt Capel and him weren't seeing eye to eye. Possible that K wants to blend more talent with experience. I also find it hard to believe that a man as hardcore as he was for close to 40 years wouldn't be disappointed that the style of defense that made him famous would have to be abandoned in favor of zone, plus he couldn't coach the one and dones with the same fire as he is used to.
Let's be real here too. He's 71. It's impressive that a man his age can relate as well as he can to kids 50+ years younger than he is. I know he says he feels good, but these last two seasons have got to have taken their toll on him, and not just physically.
I also can't help but wonder if K wanted to go a slightly different route with recruiting. Just wondering if he felt Capel and him weren't seeing eye to eye. Possible that K wants to blend more talent with experience. I also find it hard to believe that a man as hardcore as he was for close to 40 years wouldn't be disappointed that the style of defense that made him famous would have to be abandoned in favor of zone, plus he couldn't coach the one and dones with the same fire as he is used to.
I’ll leave it at this, Duval and Trent went to the NBA combine. They were given every chance to showcase their skill infront of every NBA scout that watched them all season at Duke.
Each high school recruit is given a strength and weakness chart coming into college. Weakness being what scouts look at to improve so it shows they can still grow as a player. Trent’s was attacking the basket and athleticism or being able to show he can get his own shop instead of a three point shooter and Duval was his ability to lead a team and not just be a scorer. They both still have time to do it on the pro level but they did not show it enough in college or at the combine or at workouts to get drafted any higher however they still are in the league so now focus on what’s infront of you and quit looking for reason as to why you didn’t get drafted higher. Trent signed a three year deal and Duval a two way deal with a team that is beyond injury prone. Both are in good places that they should focus on improving not tweeting or making stupid remarks. It’s not like either are stuck at a manual labor job.
Each high school recruit is given a strength and weakness chart coming into college. Weakness being what scouts look at to improve so it shows they can still grow as a player. Trent’s was attacking the basket and athleticism or being able to show he can get his own shop instead of a three point shooter and Duval was his ability to lead a team and not just be a scorer. They both still have time to do it on the pro level but they did not show it enough in college or at the combine or at workouts to get drafted any higher however they still are in the league so now focus on what’s infront of you and quit looking for reason as to why you didn’t get drafted higher. Trent signed a three year deal and Duval a two way deal with a team that is beyond injury prone. Both are in good places that they should focus on improving not tweeting or making stupid remarks. It’s not like either are stuck at a manual labor job.
Lot of interesting thoughts in that post- particularly the one reference the MENTAL toll the last 2 seasons have taken on K. Coaches can say "it goes with the territory, " " I dont pay attention to the media, etc."
I have to feel its taken a toll on our legendary coach, because its practically been a mantra since season's end from embittered players and/or parents. I thought '17 was tough for K to endure because of the way we went out first weekend etc, but now I would say this off season has been just as stressful.
Dean Smith once said I will walk away when the season gets here and I'm not excited about it. It wouldnt surprise me in the least if K walks away at season's end in '19.I wouldnt blame him....
OFC
All of the Plumlees are National Champions. Being classified as a Plumlee is not a bad thing. Those kids played their hearts out for Duke and went on to become College Champions and play in the NBA. They are all class acts as well. I have met Mason and Marshall.
I am late to the show. So without reading through the thread, I will say this. I don't care how he enjoyed his time at Duke. I stopped enjoying his time at Duke when he retweeted his dunk minutes after losing to a team that lost to Wofford at home.
He is the single most infuriating player to put on a Duke uniform for me. He could look so good and so promising, until he looked so bad and so hopeless. And struggles are expected with everyone, but he never seemed like the kind of player who overcame his struggles by adjusting his game to better utilize his strengths. He seemed like a stubborn, undisciplined player who needed to be coached up but didn't think he did. Too bad, he pissed away a good opportunity to improve and let his skills to catch up to his abilities.
He is the single most infuriating player to put on a Duke uniform for me. He could look so good and so promising, until he looked so bad and so hopeless. And struggles are expected with everyone, but he never seemed like the kind of player who overcame his struggles by adjusting his game to better utilize his strengths. He seemed like a stubborn, undisciplined player who needed to be coached up but didn't think he did. Too bad, he pissed away a good opportunity to improve and let his skills to catch up to his abilities.
Is it possible some of his immaturity on twitter showed during combine. Maybe he trashed everyone instead of talking about what he needed to improve on and GMs that may have like him late 1st round on talent alone decided to pass. Like you said he has very right to say It but should he.
Talented players come out every year. And tre was one of these. But the nba has to look at more than just talent.
Tre improved and played hard most of the time. Pre immediate gratification, he would come back one more year and make a big jump.
I will never bash a Duke player unless they do something incredibly senseless and stupid. Tre played very well against Michigan State, UNC both times during the regular season (especially on G’s Senior night), and Kansas. I am glad he played for Duke). If he was not happy, so be it, he made the decision to go to Duke and should have known he was going to spread the wealth amongst other talent. Forget that Bagley was coming to Duke, before Bags committed, Duval knew Carter and Trent Jr (both better players than him would be sharing the spotlight with him).
I agree with you here. I am not bashing the Duke program because I grew up in a household of Duke grads, but all I am saying is cut this kid a break. He played hard every game and did his best. He should be allowed to speak his mind without everyone piling on him.
If Duval had combined basketball with his talent he would have been a lottery even with his suspect shooting.... He just didn’t have it, and still doesn’t. He doesn’t get it. Reminds me of a street ball player or something. So much talent but didn’t want to learn the game of basketball. And now is passing blame because of it??? No you didn’t want to learn and thought you were so good, and now it’s eveybodys fault you didn’t get drafted??? I think he still thinks his games good enough!!! Thinks people held him back? Lmao. Well he does given the blame he’s spewing lately obviously....That’s sad. He continues to make his bed (messy) so he can lay in it...I’m wondering who the hell is in this kids ear over the years...I hold them responsible too! If Duval grows up and learns the game of basketball and improves his shooting look out...That’s kinda a lot to bet on and why he didn’t get drafted in the first place....
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No, that's not how public discourse in a free society is supposed to work.
Last November, before the season got started, just about every mock draft had Duval pegged as a late 1st rounder. At the time, I thought it was ridiculous for the #1 PG recruit in the country to NOT be a projected lottery pick, but clearly the projections were correct and his shooting caused him to keep falling.
Look, I'm not at the practices, in the locker rooms, on the benches, etc., so I'm not going to pretend to know what's going on. I don't know any of these kids, I'm not in their inner circles, etc. Every kids situation is different, but when we have these stories surrounding Thornton, Carter, Ojeley, and now Duval it becomes harder to not conclude something is off in Durham. I'm not saying it's all K's fault nor am I saying we should brush off all these kid's stories as anecdotal. For whatever reason we keep seeing smoke.
Regarding Duval, I don't think he ever really fit in at Duke. Is that just due to the style of his play or is it due to a failure on K? I don't know; I'm not going to pretend I have coaching experience. Many have complained on this bored multiple years that they don't think some players aren't given an adequate chance on the court before K pulls them out of the game for one mistake. While I do agree with that regarding some players, I don't feel that was the case for Duval.
I think a lot of this boils down to the culture of college basketball today regarding one and done. This is mostly an issue with Duval being a talented, but also young freshman. Players often need more than just one year to find their footing; their place in the system and how they can showcase their talents and utilize their style of play to benefit the team. But when you know you're only going to be there for a year, expectations are raised for yourself (as well as others on your behalf) and the time it takes for transitioning to the college level and with a new team must be expedited over the course of 1 season rather than 2, 3, or 4. So when freshman, talented or not, argue that they didn't accomplish what they wanted in their time with the team or never fully found their role or footing with the program, I guess my answer is ... well yeah, typically you don't become a complete player in roughly 30 games.
Regarding Duval, I don't think he ever really fit in at Duke. Is that just due to the style of his play or is it due to a failure on K? I don't know; I'm not going to pretend I have coaching experience. Many have complained on this bored multiple years that they don't think some players aren't given an adequate chance on the court before K pulls them out of the game for one mistake. While I do agree with that regarding some players, I don't feel that was the case for Duval.
I think a lot of this boils down to the culture of college basketball today regarding one and done. This is mostly an issue with Duval being a talented, but also young freshman. Players often need more than just one year to find their footing; their place in the system and how they can showcase their talents and utilize their style of play to benefit the team. But when you know you're only going to be there for a year, expectations are raised for yourself (as well as others on your behalf) and the time it takes for transitioning to the college level and with a new team must be expedited over the course of 1 season rather than 2, 3, or 4. So when freshman, talented or not, argue that they didn't accomplish what they wanted in their time with the team or never fully found their role or footing with the program, I guess my answer is ... well yeah, typically you don't become a complete player in roughly 30 games.
This. And ONLY this. A lot of people on here talk about his maturity and behavior as reasons he fell, but it boiled down to shooting. Guards that can't shoot have no place in an NBA backcourt. And he couldn't shoot. Towards the end of the season, he was making 30ish percent, but those were essentially unguarded attempts. He needed to make 50% plus on unguarded attempts. Grayson and Trent were barely making a better percentage down the stretch, but those were closely guarded attempts for the most part. Vs the wide open attempts that TD was getting, they'd have been hitting 50-60 percent.
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Nothing else is wrong with TD or his game. But the ability to make shots is about 60% of what a player needs today (assuming some baseline of size and athleticism). His shooting has been a problem his entire career. That it hasn't improved, at all, was a glaring problem to the league.
[serious] It really must be a hard situation for a young guy having all the expectations of millions and fame, and then realize whoa, Bagley, Carter, Trent and Allen all really need the ball a bunch too. I'm sure that was a rough emotional slide seeing his minutes fall off, but K still went to him in the Tourney and he did pretty well.
Duval is most impressive in the open court and when he can iso. up top and try and beat his man. He really would've benefited playing at a school with more screeners and spot up shooters. Instead he had to navigate a team of 4 guys that are all in the NBA right now because of their ability to create on offense, including 2 lottery picks that camped in the lane. My guess (as I was not there in the locker room) is that his sore feelings are better directed at his college choice/the way he was recruited rather than the position K put him in. I mean the guy got more minutes and took more shots per game than Carter. He was definitely the 4th or 5th man on the team, but he just wasn't featured very often. We hardly ever ran stuff just for him. You simply can't come to the best program and the country and assume it is all going to work out in one year. I hate the position he is in now, but that's life. I hope he gerts a shot to play his style somewhere this year.
Duval is most impressive in the open court and when he can iso. up top and try and beat his man. He really would've benefited playing at a school with more screeners and spot up shooters. Instead he had to navigate a team of 4 guys that are all in the NBA right now because of their ability to create on offense, including 2 lottery picks that camped in the lane. My guess (as I was not there in the locker room) is that his sore feelings are better directed at his college choice/the way he was recruited rather than the position K put him in. I mean the guy got more minutes and took more shots per game than Carter. He was definitely the 4th or 5th man on the team, but he just wasn't featured very often. We hardly ever ran stuff just for him. You simply can't come to the best program and the country and assume it is all going to work out in one year. I hate the position he is in now, but that's life. I hope he gerts a shot to play his style somewhere this year.
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Good post Denver. Hard to keep everyone happy, but makes it worse when you have 4 studs. Tough job for K to massage these egos. Almost like coaching pros.
Well said DD. I can understand Duvals frustration. From early recruitment right to Allen's last second shot rolling off the rim last season certainly was a juggernaut. Hopefully Duval will pull it all together and carve himself out a nice career in the league.
And if he had a jump shot his earnings would be much much more. His last few contracts have all been 1 year deals on minimum salaries.Rondo sure is making some good money in the NBA
Rondo is winding down his career, but has made a lot of money during his career.
I feel like the goals of one and dones completely contradict the goal of college coaches and fans. The coach’s goal is to win and and give the players a role that will give them the best chance to win. That often restricts a one and done from showing their full potential and can lead to understandable frustration from all parties involved. The rule just needs to go away and the kids who don’t want to be in college don’t have to go.
If we'd won, anything, last year, no one would say this. We didn't win, anything, last year. When the team's year is a notable failure, and ours was last year, then you look back and ask "what if." Maybe K running a system that didn't feature TD (and Grayson) driving more hurt us in the long run.
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K's main job is to win games and develop players, in that order. Well, we didn't win last year. So maybe it is a valid complaint that K mishandled TD and Carter.
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In K's defense, Carter didn't look great his senior year of HS. He wasn't in shape, and didn't look great in the All Star Circuit. K got worried about post production and went after Bags. Bolden and Javin were the only two other options, and Bolden is shakey, while Jav needed more time/development. Given what K knew at the time, that was the correct decision to bring in Bags. In retrospect, we know it was the wrong decision. Bags was great on O, but not in a structured sense. Every body castigates TD for wanting helter skelter, but Bags only wanted to hang out in the post while everyone else magically got him the ball in perfect position without Bags really having to do all that much. While playing no d whatsoever, but really cleaning up on the boards.
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If K had known that we'd see the much fitter and more focused Carter, as opposed to the sloppy, out of shape, unmotivated version of Carter on display his entire senior year, well, he wouldn't have gone after Bags. Given what he knew at the time, K was correct to go after Bags. Heck, if our nominal perimeter shooters hadn't been incredibly streaky, it still would have worked out OK. But Carter was much better as a Duke Frosh compared to HS senior, our shooters refused to be consistent, and Bags refused to play D while camping out in the low post and killing all movement.
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TD wasn't perfect, but he's being given the lion's share of blame when the reality is, he was far down the list of those responsible for last year's failings. I think he, and Carter (who this base LIT UP for that miss in the Elite 8), are a little mad that other players, who are far more responsible for last year's failures, are given passes, while they TD and Carter, are unfairly blamed.
I just couldn’t resist reading that slop...I’ll just give the highlights ...” We shouldn’t have recruited Bags, (we) know it was the wrong decision lmao, Bags wanted to hangout at the post office, TD was at no fault, TD was (unfairly) blamed? Lmao, Ks an idiot, we didn’t win anything, and last year was a complete failure”. Pretty much sums up this ____’s novel for today. Tune in next time.
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Reason I get pissed is becuase he’s over there on his pontoon boat, and think (we) are all on it with him! No, you are at sea, and the rest of us are waving from the beach as you toot your horn!
Good post. A bit lengthy for my eyes, but a lot of good substance.
My only gripe is I don't think K took Bagley because he was worried about Carter, I think K took Bagley because Bagley wanted to come play for the GOAT, and K knew how much better he could potentially make Duke.
Don’t like being caterogized or associated in any speculation, blah blah, whatever, Etc, anything, with him. Embarrassed to be associated with him as a Duke fan. Makes the fan base look a certain way. I don’t want to be associated with it. I don’t want to see it .
A lot of good substance huh? That’s your only gripe? Lmao sheesh I’m going to bed...
