Alex O, Jordan T & Jordan G

Discussion in 'Duke Hoops Open Forum - Free' started by Jake1985, May 26, 2017.

  1. Jake1985

    Jake1985 Devils Illustrated Hall of Famer
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    These guys have the chance to benefit the team and success. In practices they can push the starters, work extremely hard and show development. In games, if or when called upon, they have the opportunity to give productive minutes, provide energy and compete.

    Can't say enough how excited I am to have them as part of the roster.
     
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  2. DukeDenver

    DukeDenver Devils Illustrated Hall of Famer
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    A first name, a last name and initials. We have to work on parallel title construction.

    Tucker and O'Connell might play some, it's going to be a great season!
     
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  3. IPSYCHOSIS

    IPSYCHOSIS All American
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  4. christophero

    christophero Starter
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    I agree that one of Tucker/O'Connell will likely make an impact. Hopefully both, but that will be difficult given they play the same position.
     
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  5. roshown mcleod 95

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    I hope Goldwire gets some PT because, I don't think Allen should spend a single second at PG.
     
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  6. dukiejay

    dukiejay Moderator
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    Very unlikely Goldwire plays much at all next season. He's not ready, but might be down the road. I'd be more comfortable with Grayson stealing 4-6 minutes at PG.

    Of those three I'd guess Alex is most likely to see spot minutes, with Goldwire being the least likely.
     
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  7. Jake1985

    Jake1985 Devils Illustrated Hall of Famer
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    Denver, better....

    While I agree that they are not 5 star impact player, teams like Louisville, Villanova and others have had much success with 4 star or less players. Some players are late bloomers, some truly benefit from the structure and support of a college program, some thrive with the individual attention and others invest their time with the strength & conditioning coach.

    No one can determine the rate of development. Both the jump Grayson & Luke made as Sophomores was pretty amazing and no rating system could predict that.

    If Alex was 15lbs heavier he might have been more highly ranked. If Jordan T would be more assertive going to the rim or Defending maybe he would be higher. If Jordan G would have been at more events, competing against highly rated players maybe he would be rated higher. But in any event look at the successes they had and the ceiling for each.
     
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  8. DukeDenver

    DukeDenver Devils Illustrated Hall of Famer
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    Thanks, Jake, my blood pressure returned to normal ;).

    I am with you on these 3/4 star players. They have loads of skill, just don't have the "body maturity" of Carter or Duval. Heck, no one has the "body maturity" of a Luke Maye. Homeboy looks like my 50 year old neighbor, and has the eyeliner of his wife.
     
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  9. Tross282003

    Tross282003 Recruit
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    I agree. You could what if scenario any of the top 50 to 150 players, but the fact is the top 25 or so players in the country coming into college have had better coaching access to elite skill camps across the country and been playing basketball around the clock since they were two or three years old. Duval, Wendal Carter Jr and Gary Trent Jr all played USA basketball and had access to staff, elite training and nutrition methods. Duval started playing basketball at two years old. The odds of being a top 20 recruit in the country equate one in two to three million.

    There are some late bloomers late Bamba who was a freaky athlete.
     
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  10. jamsession3

    jamsession3 Cameron Crazy
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    If there are no injuries a Redshirt year for Alex and Goldwire will benefit the team.
     
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  11. jnastasi

    jnastasi Starter
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    Based on K's history of playing guys ranked
    This...except I think it'll be Tucker that gets those spot minutes. Frankly though, based on minutes played by guys ranked similar to where these guys are ranked I don't expect much pt from any of them. We all know K isn't going more than 3 deep on his bench. The bench will likely consist of Vrank, Jack White, and Javin or GTJ (whichever one doesn't start).
     
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  12. SwlaDukie

    SwlaDukie Recruit
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    Seriously body types and overall maturity level is the reason for the majority of their rankings. Point in case, say a player like Javin DeLaurier who was listed by most publications as a 6'8" 205 pound PF. If he was listed 6'10" 220 coming out of highschool, he would more than likely been a top 25 prospect. Alex O'Connell who still growing was to add bulk to his frame combined a with his basket ball IQ, underated athleticism, and overall skill level, he will be diamond in this class. Players like Trent Jr. and Carter do not have alot of room to grow in one year. Tucker lacks the raw athleticism to truly be special, but if he is willing to put in the work to master his craft as a shooter and improve his ball handling. He could be a great college player.
     
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  13. Jake1985

    Jake1985 Devils Illustrated Hall of Famer
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    I agree. I don't feel red shirting is as beneficial in basketball unless it's for medical reasons. Players like Marshall and Amile just aren't common. Most of these kids want out in 4 years or less and they all want to play. Duke has had players transfer out that were looking for PT; if they would have redshirted, not sure that would have made them stayed.

    Not getting into the what ifs but these kids have talent. I coached Miles Norris's brother, spent time around TJ Leaf and K Leonard (SDSU) and during their HS/AAU days both Miles & TJ were extremely gifted early on, but Leonard needed SDSU and not the Spurs to become who he is today.

    I just feel Alex, Jordan T and Jordan G aren't just at Duke to be 4 year players who take up roster space, get recruited over and don't contribute. I think the staff sees something in each of them where if coached, trained and developed they could surprise.
     
  14. jamsession3

    jamsession3 Cameron Crazy
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    I pray the guys stick around and they are developed.
     
  15. Tross282003

    Tross282003 Recruit
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    There is no such thing as being recruited over. Duke goes after the best talent each year and so do all elite programs. Javin wasn't recruited over because we got Carter Jr.

    Jordan G for example is a kid that maybe a good practice player and play a few minutes in an emergency, but most likely will never be a starter or someone that averages 15 plus minutes a game. If he plays more than 15 minutes per game it means Duke missed out on a top recruit or K is playing him over a more talented player like when Tyler Thornton played over Quinn Cook. In those years we lost early in the tournament and Duke never reached their ceiling.
     
  16. Jnood

    Jnood Cameron Crazy
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    I really had to think about who you were taking about without last names. I need to get more familiar with these guys, I guess.
     
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  17. hart2chesson

    hart2chesson Devils Illustrated Hall of Famer
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    I think Tucker is potentially an impact player next year. I know Syracuse recruited him 3 years. A lot depends on summer workouts, scrimmages, the trip we take, etc... However he has a deadly shot and I see him stealing some PT.....OFC
     
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  18. christophero

    christophero Starter
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    Don't have much to add but some well thought out posts that I enjoyed reading. :) Excited about our young team.
     
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  19. hart2chesson

    hart2chesson Devils Illustrated Hall of Famer
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    Likewise Christop!!

    OFC
     
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  20. Dattier

    Dattier Devils Illustrated Hall of Famer
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    Based on little beyond the ol' eye test, I agree that Tucker is most likely to crack the rotation as a freshman.
    I'm not sold on Jack's having an edge.
    I'd like to see a consistent 8-man rotation, but that 8th guy shouldn't be getting over 10 minutes, imo.
     
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  21. christophero

    christophero Starter
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    Tucker just seems like one of those guys Coach K is going to love, like Matt or Amile.
     
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  22. jnastasi

    jnastasi Starter
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    Honestly I don't know much about Jack White other than the little we saw of him last year but I gave him the edge based on experience.
     
  23. dachampishere2

    dachampishere2 Starter
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    Keep sleeping on Goldwire. That dude can play. Rankings don't mean everything
     
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  24. dachampishere2

    dachampishere2 Starter
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    Going on this summer trip is going to do wonders for this team. Can't wait to see them in Dominican
     
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  25. roshown mcleod 95

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    Th
    I wish people would give a reason on why he shouldn't play, other then the fact he's a 3star. I He seems to have a good handle and can play defense
     
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  26. hart2chesson

    hart2chesson Devils Illustrated Hall of Famer
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    I hear ya dachamp, and totally agree.

    OFC
     
  27. dukiejay

    dukiejay Moderator
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    I will.

    1) He's incredibly undersized. Like 160lbs soaking wet undersized. There's nothing wrong with that as Duke can afford to be patient with him, but he doesn't have the skill set to make that work right now.

    2) He needs to develop. The ACC game is a significant jump for any player. Right now Goldwire doesn't have a specialty. His job is going to be getting stronger, tightening his handle and becoming a better shooter. He does those things and he can become a significant role player for Duke in a couple years.
     
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  28. Dattier

    Dattier Devils Illustrated Hall of Famer
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    I agree. That isn't the kind of thing I'm good at predicting ahead of time, though, so the niche he fits sizewise, positionless positionwise, and skillwise compels my hunch the most.
    That's as good a reason as any!
     
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  29. Dukesince90

    Dukesince90 Cameron Crazy
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    I've noticed lately that I need to tighten my handles as well!
     
  30. df64

    df64 All American
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    Don't understand the we are in trouble if we have to rely on lower rated players at some point. What about the CJ McCollums and the ton of other guys outside the top 50, even top 100 that become great players. At least DJ listed some specifics, but what about the Curry brothers? They were lower rated and certainly weren't physical specimens. Probably similar to Goldwire. What about Greg McDermot? Wasn't he on Barnes' high school tam? Not like nobody ever saw him play. Maybe he is a touch bigger than Tucker, but I am pretty sure he was lower rated.
     
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  31. Jake1985

    Jake1985 Devils Illustrated Hall of Famer
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    Based on ratings, lower rated players have more of an up hill journey to get playing time. But based on the things that can't be measured or guessed (work ethic, competitiveness, and other intangibles) the lower rated players that do end up playing have a up swing development.
     
    31 Jake1985, May 28, 2017
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
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  32. Dattier

    Dattier Devils Illustrated Hall of Famer
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    It's not all one way. You are mentioning guys who are exceptions. Many of them took time to develop, and did so at schools where they weren't playing top-notch opponents as frequently.

    It's great to have guys like Jordan G and Alex O on the team. If we're relying heavily on them when they're freshmen, we are likely going to struggle. If guys like Brandon Ingram and Jayson Tatum have their struggles as freshmen despite their exceptional talent, guys with far, far less talent are likely to struggle far more. It is a good thing that at a school like Lehigh or Creighton, they get to do that out of the glaring spotlight, and at Duke -- where they're less likely to play as freshmen -- they'll also be out of the spotlight, albeit in a different way.
     
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  33. dukiejay

    dukiejay Moderator
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    I get what you're saying, but for every Steph Curry or Doug McDermott, there's 25 kids who turn out ordinary or worse.

    So yes, it's certainly possible Goldwire could turn out to be elite. It's infinitely more likely, though, that his ceiling is more Tyler Thornton than any those players you listed.

    Also, Doug McDermott was a major recruit who signed with Iowa State. His dad was hired at Creighton and Doug changed. He was a fringe top-100 kid.
     
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  34. hart2chesson

    hart2chesson Devils Illustrated Hall of Famer
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    I think Goldwire's ceiling is higher than Tyler Thornton.....Just an opinion, but his game just looks smoother....OFC
     
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  35. DukeDenver

    DukeDenver Devils Illustrated Hall of Famer
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    If Goldwire can come in for 3 minutes and harass the crap out of the ball handler and not turn it over on offense, then he may see spot duty and really help the team. He has to earn that trust. We're rooting for him.
     
  36. Tross282003

    Tross282003 Recruit
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    Is not sold on Goldwire yet. He may contribute in a few years, but I don't expect anything out of him over the next two years.
     
  37. Jake1985

    Jake1985 Devils Illustrated Hall of Famer
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    He has played against good players including Duval (which he did a good job against). He is a pass first PG that has good athleticism and is a solid defender.

    There are a lot of question marks to be answered. I think those question marks aren't solely based on his game skills, but based on his rating. So are there uncertainties but again no one really knows.
     
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  38. dachampishere2

    dachampishere2 Starter
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    I believe Goldwire will play some backup point guard. Grayson doesn't need to play point guard at all. Some of you keep talking about size but Derryck Thornton was just as small as Goldwire. Because he was a five star you overlooked that though. He can play 8 mins a game definitely. Give Tre a little 4 more break each half and that would be perfect. The dude can actually play. Every since I saw Josh Hairston as a highly ranked 4 star I don't pay attention to rankings AT ALL anymore
     
  39. GAAP

    GAAP Cameron Crazy
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    Doug McDermott signed with UNI. Ben Jacobsen released him to attend Creighton.
     
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  40. Mac9192

    Mac9192 Cameron Crazy
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    Goldwire may be bad, I don't know. His job, if he gets pt will be to get the ball upcourt. On paper, there seems to be enough scoring options, and if Duval gets in foul trouble, and he will, someone will need to spell him. He's not expected to be a major force. I would rather have Grayson stay off ball as much as possible. We've seen him running the point. We will see, like I said, maybe he isn't ready for ACC play, but a couple minutes each half can only help. Different story if he dribbles the ball off his knee, but I would like to think he can be a plus.
     

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